Do you younger guys agree with this article?

[vy65]

You are the one that said that the notion of evil did not exist in the presocratic world. It did as made very cear by all the bull rules that pythagoreans had.

They had a notion of the beautiful in shapes and considered distortions to be abhorrent.

Your premise was wrong and quite frankly we do not know very much about the Bacchans as they were the plebs and did not write very much however you could claim that there depiction of the ans as destroyers could be viewed as an evil en y.

Thales.

Like I said ... pics or it didn't happen.

[vy65]

Crotchety.

Just because you dislike the attention doesn't make me ill-natured or peevish. On the contrary, I'm in a great mood.

Awesome!

[vy65]

You're butthurt. That is so cute. Ad hominem. If you are a lawyer then you know what it makes a knowledgeable judge think of your position.

The problem with Nietzsche is that he set out a order in which there were elites but at no point described how that power was to manifest itself. that was the whole point of will to power as that was how it was to manifest.

He went mad forwhatever reasons o quit flushing out his philosophy. However without that justification for being in said spot of power its hard to justify having it. He clearly wanted to within his framework and never could.

As such using him to justify being an asshole is pretty weak.

Why would I be butthurt?

You're also wrong. Power manifests itself as life because life is power. He wrote pretty extensively on this point.

Lol critical thinking.

[vy65]

What he needs to do is start listing his assests and I will tell him if he has more moeny than me. He is just lashing out like an angry little boy now.

I never said my making more than you was the only reason why you're no better than a shrivled sack of goat testicles. I said it was one of many reasons . . .

lol butthurt

lol critical thinking

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No, you missed my point. Neither of you have assets worth as much as Paris Hilton, so you both should feel ashamed you aren't as good as her.

Lol, i know that. i was trying to bait him into being even more of a jackass.

[greyforest]

I can understand being exceptions to the rule (or the exception being created by being intellectually lazy).

But the rule, by and large, is that we rationally choose to do what we do or don't do. Whereas it has everything to do with rational thinking, and little with instincts.

That rational thinking has evolved over time, has gotten sprinkled with different moral and idealistic angles, etc. is certainly not in dispute here.

This is pretty much the only point you make which I take issue with...

I would definitely not say that by and large most decisions made by humans are rational. I would argue that a huge proportion of human behavior is dictated by instinct. There are parts of your brain which are not human. Emotion, sexual attraction, instincts - these are all from a more ancient part of the human nervous system. None of these truly under control - they are all automatic; reflexive to the situation they are in, and they play a large part in determining cognitive behavior.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why would I be butthurt?

You're also wrong. Power manifests itself as life because life is power. He wrote pretty extensively on this point.

Lol critical thinking.

IE it is inherent within the being. I said will to power. You can laugh but some critical thining would have helped.

The bottomline in all of this is capital is not inherent within the human existence and as such is not the basis of power in his philosophy.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

This is much more succinct than I could ever do:



http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/niet...ragedy_all.htm



No goal posts were ever shifted. I'm engaging in a little amateur psychology here. A man rapes a woman principally to exert power over her. The act is animated by the man's own powerlessness - he rapes in order to exert something he doesn't have - power over the woman. It's a desperate act designed to hide the man's own impotence. Basically, rape occurs because a man resents a woman and also resents his own impotence. That's pretty bad in the Nietzschean world-view.



Part of this is dealt with in that huge block quote.

You might be right as to why morality arises in the first place. But that's not really what we're talking about.

The point to recognizing that mentality is to emulate it on your own terms - to become powerful yourself. If you're getting eaten, then you should do something about it.

As for the last bit, if you don't agree, you don't agree. But I think the caveman's reaction was to beat the out of the guy with more food and steal it - not sit around and call him evil.




This is answered above.

That not Nietzche you quoted and certainly not the birth of tragedy.

[vy65]

IE it is inherent within the being. I said will to power. You can laugh but some critical thining would have helped.

So what?

The bottomline in all of this is capital is not inherent within the human existence and as such is not the basis of power in his philosophy.

So what and why?

[vy65]

Yo Fuzz, did you click on da link my ninja?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So what?



So what and why?

You want me to put it syllogisms so you can be spoonfed it? You're becoming pretty boring. It was your assertion that it was int ehf irst place.

You have no basis. Those questions are more apt as introspection on your part.

[vy65]

You want me to put it syllogisms so you can be spoonfed it? You're becoming pretty boring. It was your assertion that it was int ehf irst place.

You have no basis. Those questions are more apt as introspection on your part.

So you can't answer. Again.

Thanks!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Thales.

Like I said ... pics or it didn't happen.

I am going to guess that you got your education at a catholic school because this notion that plato originated the idea of good and beauty is straight catholicism.

I dont really care.

Pythagoras predated him and his proclivities are well do ented. If you want to belabor this notion of burden of proof then go right ahead. Anyone else reading it knows whats what.

[vy65]

lol catholic school

lol boring

lol critical thought

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So you can't answer. Again.

Thanks!

Answer what? Woohoo dissembling is fun too.

[ElNono]

This is pretty much the only point you make which I take issue with...

I would definitely not say that by and large most decisions made by humans are rational. I would argue that a huge proportion of human behavior is dictated by instinct. There are parts of your brain which are not human. Emotion, sexual attraction, instincts - these are all from a more ancient part of the human nervous system. The only bit which makes a human is the cerebral cortex. It can stifle mammalian instincts, but not always.

Look at everyday life. Every moment we live is largely governed by rational thinking. Examples: Are you hungry? You hop into a vehicle, you respect driving rules, you respect other people on the road, you pay for your food with your hard earned money, you drive back, you eat your meal. Need to take a dump? You go to the bathroom, you put down the toilet seat, you do your thing, you wipe, you wash your hands, then you go back to posting in Spurstalk/Facebook.

Instinctive reactions on humans have, for the most part, been constrained to time sensitive or highly emotional moments. Avoiding a car crash. A mother protecting a child during a fire, etc.

[greyforest]

Every moment we live is largely governed by instinctive thinking. Why do people take prescription/psychoactive/recreational drugs? Why do people talk about sex every day? Why are there people ting all over each other in this thread to bolster their self-esteems?

Instincts!

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Every moment we live is largely governed by instinctive thinking. Why do people take prescription/psychoactive/recreational drugs? Why do people talk about sex every day? Why are there people ting all over each other in this thread to bolster their self-esteems?

Instincts!

The two are not mutually exclusive. I think it is higher thinking to be able to think and act rationally considering your instincts. I can do it. other people not being able to in my view is not an excuse.

[CuckingFunt]

I'm going to go with LnGrrrR's take on rape. Just because our society view rapists as these fundamentally flawed and weak individuals that has not been the case historically. Take our native american culture for instance. Rape was just a way of life when one tribe won a battle over the other tribe. The winners raped and enslaved the losers women. The strongest in the tribe were the biggest rapists.

Native American cultures. Plural. And I'm not so sure that such practices were common enough that they can/should be attributed as a generalization.

That said, the biggest (most accomplished? odd thing to measure) rapists may have been the strongest in the tribe for reasons other than their rapey-ness being an admirable quality. Could be that the people who would have otherwise challenged their rule/status held back. You know, for fear of being raped.

[DarkReign]

Hes just got mad and decided to play the i am a man because of X income game.

A good game to play.

Thing is that i am very aware of the industry he is talking about and I know he is full of . $50k with overtime on a 60 hour work week is about $13 or so an hour.

You arent aware of your ass with both hands firmly under your seat.

You dont even know what we do. You only know what I told you.

He just works them like dogs. He is responding to engineering students that go in asking for a salary of $40k to $50k which is standard and laughs at them. He claims he hires convicts and addicts well I have a notion that has more to do with his pay scale then his benevolence.

$115k for a guy with nothing more than a high school diploma with no engineering-anything in his job description seems like a pretty good lot to me.

$80k for an engineering manager with any experience. Here are the payscales for the listed opening in Chicago which is close to Detroit.

Once again, we arent engineering. My Great Wall of Text said, explicitly, that I run the second plant, not the first. The first plant, your argument would be true, if I knew anything about what peeps are being paid there.

But for my plant, I can hire guys off the street and put $60k in their pocket and all they really need to know before hand is how to add and subtract and spell their name on the job application.

Seems fair to me.

Its ing laughable.

It sure is seeing as the entire premise of this response is completely inaccurate.

You missed the point. None of the people I employ wear "business casual" to work, except the office manager. Everyone else has work boots on and no desk (well, one desk for the PM and my own, but whatever). ...and since when do Plant Managers engineer anything? Never heard of it, they may sit in on meeting and throw darts, but thats the extent of that little business.

Ive sat in meetings with extremely large Tier1 suppliers and a plant manager is nothing more than a coordinator who oversees and is responsible for hitting production numbers. Scheduling hours, time management, putting the best personnel in the best positions to hit those numbers.

I am in the production business, nothing more. Ive already said "You win", but at least win working under the same conditions as the defeated.

[CosmicCowboy]

Native American cultures. Plural. And I'm not so sure that such practices were common enough that they can/should be attributed as a generalization.

That said, the biggest (most accomplished? odd thing to measure) rapists may have been the strongest in the tribe for reasons other than their rapey-ness being an admirable quality. Could be that the people who would have otherwise challenged their rule/status held back. You know, for fear of being raped.

cultures

And I thought it was an excellent example of human nature unen bered by modern religious influence.

[DarkReign]

@ greyforest

I dont much give a who takes offense to anything I write here, but to be clear, when I wrote that, I was using the 3rd person "you", not you directly.

Take it for what its worth.

[Winehole23]

Awesome!

You flatter me with the attention. Thanks for caring enough to pass comment on my temperament in the first place. You were well wide of the mark, but I doubt you meant it insincerely.

[greyforest]

@ greyforest

I dont much give a who takes offense to anything I write here, but to be clear, when I wrote that, I was using the 3rd person "you", not you directly.

Take it for what its worth.

I graduated from high school in 1998. I am only mildly older than you (by the sounds of it)

[DarkReign]

I mean what I said, greyforest.

I go off on tangents that, as you can tell from the length of that post, have little to nothing to do with the person being quoted. I am not sorry if you took it personal, I am merely telling you that when I wrote that, you were not in my mind, but more to the the age group being discussed in the OP article.