Do you younger guys agree with this article?

[DarrinS]

Maybe those of your caliber. You are the one that had to go and learn a technicians job to get employment when the economy was good. Speak for yourself.

I'm not a technician.

[MannyIsGod]

If you interview as poorly as you read...well...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I'm not a technician.

You had to learn compiler code to get a job. You told us about it. i don't really care what you call yourself.

[Doug Whiner]

The responses were more in response to the whiney posters her at spurstalk.

You are one of the family.

[Drachen]

Like I don't even understand what your point is, DR. Are these people just supposed to ignore what has occurred in their life? You act as if the discussion about how our society is best run and the implications of the actions of prior generations on subsequent generations isn't allowed to happen because you're not getting on with life. The majority of my generation is dealing with the sandwich that the baby boomers laid at our feet because we have no other choice but I fail to understand how addressing the issues at hand and how we got here is somehow wrong or wasteful. On the contrary its downright necessary.

I think his biggest problem is that these kids got all the way through college without formulating a plan a evidenced by poetry degrees. I'll bet that if these kids had marketable degrees and looked like they wanted a job then he probably would have either supported the article or been mute on the subject.

[MannyIsGod]

The biggest issue is that kids didn't know how the real worlds works? Really?

[greyforest]

This bear repeating over and over again. I know that its fun to point to the poetry degrees as if they should be deemed unemployable but I know so many people with engineering degrees that are going back to school because its either that work for nothing or move to western australia.

Guess these stupid ass kids didn't know how the real world works. Should have started a company instead of pursuing undergrad engineering degrees.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That's not whining.

Actually its not at all. I know others that invested a lot of capital in commercial real estate in 2005 and got their asses handed to them. It seemed a good investment considering trends no doubt.

But debt creates artificial demand. Unfortunately the same type of thing is going on with stocks. Its no coincidence that the market strongly correlates with the amount of debt seeing capital shoved into its market.

The markets have meandered around the whims of the Bundesbank for the past two months. You know that JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs have portfolios containing every share on the major markets. Every single one as do many firms. Makes me wonder how much of American stock is held by Greek, Italian and Spanish banks and firms.

Quite frankly the only benefit the average consumer is going to see out of that bailout is this artificial inflation of the stock market back to preexisting norms. It seems so much of policy is just trying to keep that afloat.

If it does crash again there will be no more artificial demand. Losing 30 points was nothing in 2007. A third of all your gone.

[CosmicCowboy]

The biggest issue is that kids didn't know how the real worlds works? Really?

Manny, despite the I give you I like you and have always considered you an exception to the general rule. You came from a lower middle class background and came out with a work ethic. I know too many kids of friends of mine that came from middle upper class backgrounds...kids of doctors, professionals, etc. that grew up with all the advantages, driving the cool cars and going to the right schools and got everything they wanted or needed and just never got the connection between all the cool they took for granted and their dads dedication to work/income. they are STILL drifting and will never be able to give their kids the advantages they had.

[greyforest]

They are STILL drifting and will never be able to give their kids the advantages they had.

It's almost as if the same opportunity to provide for their kids wasn't there for them like it was for their parents. Maybe there's some graphs or charts which could show this??? Or some anecdotes or articles. Hmm.

[Agloco]

People are even graduating with science and engineering degrees and cannot find jobs worth a damn, because the economy is the worst it has been since the great depression.

This bear repeating over and over again. I know that its fun to point to the poetry degrees as if they should be deemed unemployable but I know so many people with engineering degrees that are going back to school because its either that work for nothing or move to western australia.

This....over and over.

I wonder why more folks aren't pointing this out. Oh yea, because it's easier to make your argument by looking at plainly obvious missteps by young college grads.

I can vouch for this trend. It's quite spooky.

[MannyIsGod]

Manny, despite the I give you I like you and have always considered you an exception to the general rule. You came from a lower middle class background and came out with a work ethic. I know too many kids of friends of mine that came from middle upper class backgrounds...kids of doctors, professionals, etc. that grew up with all the advantages, driving the cool cars and going to the right schools and got everything they wanted or needed and just never got the connection between all the cool they took for granted and their dads dedication to work/income. they are STILL drifting and will never be able to give their kids the advantages they had.

Means a lot to me, CC. Thank you.

[MannyIsGod]

This....over and over.

I wonder why more folks aren't pointing this out. Oh yea, because it's easier to make your argument by looking at plainly obvious missteps by young college grads.

I can vouch for this trend. It's quite spooky.

Its damn scary but I'll have to take my chances.

[greyforest]

This thread is like deja vu.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...96#post5032496

Pretty much nothing has changed since then, except more and more people my age are realizing they have been shafted.

[m>s]

Manny, despite the I give you I like you and have always considered you an exception to the general rule. You came from a lower middle class background and came out with a work ethic. I know too many kids of friends of mine that came from middle upper class backgrounds...kids of doctors, professionals, etc. that grew up with all the advantages, driving the cool cars and going to the right schools and got everything they wanted or needed and just never got the connection between all the cool they took for granted and their dads dedication to work/income. they are STILL drifting and will never be able to give their kids the advantages they had.

manny is a immigrant imho. just because hes dumb it doesn't necessarily mean hes from some lower-class american family, i know some poorass s round my hood and they're generally dumb as garnett but the style of dumbness is quite different than manny's tbh. manny sounds just like a professor working at UTA that i know in real life, and he is a immigrant

[greyforest]

This thread is like deja vu.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...96#post5032496

Pretty much nothing has changed since then, except more and more people my age are realizing they have been shafted.

Hahah. I just can't help but laugh that I outlined all of this article's content MONTHS ago. CosmicCowboy sat there arguing with me in that thread about all the same exact problems he just posted this article about, which he posted as if he had never seen or heard any opinions like it.

[DarrinS]

Its damn scary but I'll have to take my chances.

Bingo

[Agloco]

Its damn scary but I'll have to take my chances.

Well it's not unmanageable provided you're willing relocate, etc etc.

You know, sacrifice more than you already have sacrificed. Where the limits of tolerance lie are, of course, up to each individual graduate. I believe many are close to or over that limit. The physical manifestation: The Occupy Wall Street movement.

The trend is a new one to be quite honest Manny. It pervades all sectors, even healthcare to an appreciable extent. It's a statement when young PhD's in my field are looking for jobs as short as we are on board certified physicists.

This is why (well, one reason at any rate) in my heart of hearts, I truly believe that this economy is a different beast. I also believe that if we don't get serious about fiscal issues in the near term things will get substantially worse, and not just for college grads.

But seriously though, most of the "anti-Wall Street protest" folks keep citing the kids with poetry degrees, etc. What about people like Manny? What about the kids I teach (med students and PhD students alike)? They aren't exactly pursuing useless degrees. I see a growing proportion of them struggling to find a job in supposedly "hot" sectors.

[DarrinS]

It will get better. Of that, I have no doubt. Just sucks when you're in the middle of it.

[clambake]

It will get better. Of that, I have no doubt. Just sucks when you're in the middle of it.

so....the mega-wealthy get a pass?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It will get better. Of that, I have no doubt. Just sucks when you're in the middle of it.

No what sucks is when we get to relive the crash sputter crash boom crash cycle of the late 19th century or we get to relive the 1930s sandwich because of deregulation of laws passed in the early 19th and early twentieth centuries.

And all the while all you want to talk about is poetry degrees and pretensions of all is well.

[clambake]

the irony is that the mega-wealthy OWS every day.

[greyforest]

It will get better. Of that, I have no doubt.

I think you're a bit optimistic. I think it's going to have to get a lot worse.

[LnGrrrR]

This is much more succinct than I could ever do

Really? That's the most succint you can be? I don't think ringing up what Christianity introduced to our concept of morality is necessarily tangent.

No goal posts were ever shifted. I'm engaging in a little amateur psychology here. A man rapes a woman principally to exert power over her. The act is animated by the man's own powerlessness - he rapes in order to exert something he doesn't have - power over the woman. It's a desperate act designed to hide the man's own impotence. Basically, rape occurs because a man resents a woman and also resents his own impotence. That's pretty bad in the Nietzschean world-view.

Pfft. The man obviously does hold power over her, does he not? If he didn't have the power to rape her, then he could not. In your example, does the bird prey on the lamb because it hates the lamb?

Part of this is dealt with in that huge block quote.

The point to recognizing that mentality is to emulate it on your own terms - to become powerful yourself. If you're getting eaten, then you should do something about it.

Right. If you can't find reproduce with a willing female, then you do what you must to reproduce. Per this theory, anyways.

As for the last bit, if you don't agree, you don't agree. But I think the caveman's reaction was to beat the out of the guy with more food and steal it - not sit around and call him evil.

That undercuts your earlier argument. If jealousy/fear of the strong isn't what caused people to create the term evil, then what did?

[LnGrrrR]

I'm merely pointing out that the instinct is the impetus for those actions - not that rationality isn't used. Rationality and instincts are always at odds with each other.

I'll use your example. Say a person isn't just hungry, they are starving to death. They will act MUCH less rationally than a hungry person, as instincts grow stronger and mute out rationale.

People are highly variable as to what their threshold is. Some are much more likely to act upon instincts than others.

Greyforest, you're familiar with Maslow's Hierarchy, I'll assume?

When people's basic necessities aren't being met, I think society is slightly more forgiving of them if they transgress the law/moral code.