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Parker2112
I didn't deny saying it. It's right there in my post. And, you agreed. I didn't give much thought, after that, to dissecting the scandal and identifying in which crimes they were complicit and which they weren't.
But, after you backpedaled, I thought it would be better to be precise about in what I believed the government to be complicit.
, you're tedious.
Parker2112
you'd have allowed the imprecision to stand. telling.
Yes, I backpedaled. is there something wrong with that?
No, I just don't tend to dwell on points where I believe there to be agreement.
Broadly, the assertion that the U.S. is complicit in the murders suited my characterization they were to blame. I don't think I was trying to make a legal determination of complicity. But, you latched on and away we went.
I may make it my practice to be as precise as possible and repeat my original assertion in every post so you can't get off track.
In this case; I believe the U. S. Government bears a good portion of the responsibility for the murders of more than 300 Mexican nationals and at least one U. S. Law Enforcement Officer due to their actions in the Fast and Furious scandal.
I believe -- because they've admitted so -- the U. S. Government facilitated the straw purchases of thousands of weapons from gun stores, in America, by persons known to them to be associated with Mexican drug cartels.
I believe -- because they've admitted so -- the U. S. Government allowed those guns to be conveyed across the international border between Mexico and the United States by persons known to them to be associated with Mexican drug cartels.
And, I believe -- because there is do entary evidence -- the ATF proposed to use the murders, committed with the weapons they allowed into Mexico, as a pretext for ins uting more gun regulations.
By the way, if you'd bother to look at the record -- particularly the latest do ent dump -- there is also evidence ATF was tracking the increase in murders with the ramping up of the gun walking.
Why?
No, I've clarified.
i copped my missstatement. will you cop yours?
Because I rectified my own misstatement, sez you. I wonder why others disagreeing didn't cause you to clarify...
quantum electrodynamics?
It was imprecise. I do not believe, nor do I contend, the United States Government was directly, legally, complicit in the murder of more than 300 Mexican nationals and at least one U. S. Law Enforcement Officer.
I believe the U. S. Government bears a good portion of the responsibility for the murders of more than 300 Mexican nationals and at least one U. S. Law Enforcement Officer due to their actions in the Fast and Furious scandal.
I believe -- because they've admitted so -- the U. S. Government facilitated the straw purchases of thousands of weapons from gun stores, in America, by persons known to them to be associated with Mexican drug cartels.
I believe -- because they've admitted so -- the U. S. Government allowed those guns to be conveyed across the international border between Mexico and the United States by persons known to them to be associated with Mexican drug cartels.
And, I believe -- because there is do entary evidence -- the ATF proposed to use the murders, committed with the weapons they allowed into Mexico, as a pretext for ins uting more gun regulations.
I believe crimes have been committed by U. S. agents. I believe the U. S. Government -- up to and possibly including the Attorney General and President of the United States, condoned or even encouraged these crimes.
quod est demonstrandum, or something like that
I was thinking quote for Q but its latin. What is said is demonstration?
Thanks for the clarification. Someone might have misunderstood.
Because no one else was as pedantic as you about it.
that's my point, kinda. you had to be made to do it. all on your own you didn't care enough about whether you were saying what you "really meant."
are you indifferent to the accuracy and truth of your own comments?
Or, I guess I thought it was understood -- particularly by you, who had earlier agreed.
I only clarified my point when you, one who was in agreement, flipped your position.
And none of this is important or germane to the central story here.
I was fuzzy on the word complicity. I regret the misstatement.
Nope.
And, your suggestion that you were trying to force me to recant my statement of complicity with all your tedious argument is disingenuous, at best, when, during all that time, your statement the U. S. being complicit was undeniable, sat back there undisturbed.
If it was your aim to force me to admit I misstated the case shouldn't you have, perhaps, reversed your earlier agreement with my "misstatement," first?
not at all. i made a mistake. i glossed a word wrong. it happens.
glad you admitted yours, too. that's progress.
yoni is simply a liar who lies.
I don't understand why some posters on both sides are acting like they are running for office.
Now that we've got that out of the way, let's try this again.
Do ents: ATF used "Fast and Furious" to make the case for gun regulations
In another world, this writer would be receiving a Pulitzer and Fast and Furious would be seen for what it is, one of the worst scandals in American history.ATF officials didn't intend to publicly disclose their own role in letting Mexican cartels obtain the weapons, but emails show they discussed using the sales, including sales encouraged by ATF, to justify a new gun regulation called "Demand Letter 3". That would require some U.S. gun shops to report the sale of multiple rifles or "long guns." Demand Letter 3 was so named because it would be the third ATF program demanding gun dealers report tracing information.
On July 14, 2010 after ATF headquarters in Washington D.C. received an update on Fast and Furious, ATF Field Ops Assistant Director Mark Chait emailed Bill Newell, ATF's Phoenix Special Agent in Charge of Fast and Furious:
"Bill - can you see if these guns were all purchased from the same (licensed gun dealer) and at one time. We are looking at anecdotal cases to support a demand letter on long gun multiple sales. Thanks."
This is a perfect example of how the media picks and chooses winners.
If this were not an administration to which they have obviously pledged some fealty, the drumbeat of impeachment and/or resignation would be deafening.
Over 300 murders -- one of an American law enforcement officer -- have been committed with guns the cartels obtained through Fast and Furious.
And, yet, Eric Holder is still employed and the Obama administration continues to act as if this were no big deal.
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