Thoughts on Pop comparing Leonard to Bowen

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Looked it up now and he's 6-foot-9.5 in shoes ... so yeah 6'10.



Smarts. Good instincts. Long arms. Quick hands.

Sixth the way thru the season, I'm surprised no one has mentioned since day one, Leonard has not shied from trying to quarterback the defense. Saw him in game three out four pointing to Parker what guy to pick up. I naturally agree its smarts and instincts, but I guess the next question should be:

will a scouting report on an unathletic instinct based 2/3 change his production significantly?

[TDMVPDPOY]

Sixth the way thru the season, I'm surprised no one has mentioned since day one, Leonard has not shied from trying to quarterback the defense. Saw him in game three out four pointing to Parker what guy to pick up. I naturally agree its smarts and instincts, but I guess the next question should be:

will a scouting report on an unathletic instinct based 2/3 change his production significantly?

i just wish on the fast break his closer to the action, then just running down court to the 3pt line and waitin for to happen...his a good finisher down low....IMO NO ONE IN THE LEAGUE CAN STOP HIM

[Seventyniner]

Nah, I'm tired of Pop worrying so much about the offense. Spurs fans can't whine about the defense out of one side of their mouths and then support Pop placing so much value in offensive fit out of the other side of their mouths.

Whiners gonna whine. I thought you knew this board better than that...

[Nathan Explosion]

i just wish on the fast break his closer to the action, then just running down court to the 3pt line and waitin for to happen...his a good finisher down low....IMO NO ONE IN THE LEAGUE CAN STOP HIM

I think it's the system, because Jefferson does the same when if he just ran to the rim, could get some layups and dunks.

[TD 21]

Why would I want Leonard to play shooting guard? First of all, it's always best to push young players. Playing SG would really test most of Leonard's current areas where he can improve including ballhandling, passing and shooting. In development terms, the better he gets in those areas, the higher his ceiling.

And his value rises if he can play shooting guard. While I agree that it's unlikely he's a long-term SG, his strengths would be magnified even more at that position. At shooting guard, his rebounding ability would be a game-changing in itself since there aren't too many shooting guards who can keep him off the glass -- while there are plenty of SFs who could at least compete with him on the boards.

There's nothing to lose if Leonard proves he can play SG. It'd just be gravy. Plus, it'd open up a starting spot in future years with a ton of flexibility. If Leonard can play SG or SF, you could literally put any type of swingman next to him -- from a small shooting guard to a tall, lumbering SF -- and get away with it.

Fair enough. But he's far more useful to this team long term as a combo forward. Even with the shooting guard position in the state it's in, I still maintain that it's far easier to find a decent shooting guard than it is a dynamic small forward.

Odom is in reality a small forward who is big and bulky enough to survive defensively at power forward. But there's nothing "power forward" about his offensive game.

Comparing Odom's offense to Griffin, Stoudemire and Bosh? Yeah, no, they're nothing alike.

In today's game, Odom is a true power forward. He just so happens to have guard like skills. A number of bigs have at least some guard like skills, it doesn't not make them bigs. Even if you want to debate that, from a size and even strength perspective, if Leonard can hold his own against him, then he should be able to against a number of power forwards.

I just meant they're all mobile and can beat most power forwards off the dribble. And none are dominant with their back to the basket (Bosh is the best of the bunch, though).

Artest in his day was 40 pounds heavier than Leonard and was ultra quick. He couldn't jump but that elite quickness on such a huge frame grades as an A athlete in my book. Prince and Battier are both about 6-foot-10 in shoes (3 inches taller than Leonard) and Prince has longer arms than even Leonard. Those two could make up for any athletic shortcomings with height and length.

Christie was an great athlete in his day. Bell is a good example of a not-great athlete becoming a very good defender ... but I think he was a bit overrated and his lack of athleticism held him back. Even at his best, he got lit up pretty regularly by players like Manu.

But yeah, I probably should have stated that better. 99% of the time to be a great defender you need to either be a great athlete or be especially long for your position. The other 1% are the bulldog type defenders like Raja Bell and Mario Elie ... but that type usually gets exposed against the cream of the crop.

Leonard is long but 6-foot-7 in shoes is average to below average height for a SF. His arms make up for it somewhat but it doesn't put him in the Tayshaun Prince category.

Artest was never an A athlete. Prince might be 6-10 in shoes, but Battier isn't. The point wasn't that Leonard is as big as them, or as long as Prince (he obviously isn't). It's that, like them, he's big and long enough, to where he can make up for being not having elite lateral quickness.

Christie was a good athlete, not an A athlete. I agree about Bell, but he was considered elite. Another one that comes to mind is Posey. Never an elite athlete, but was considered an elite perimeter defender in his salad days.

Nah, I'm tired of Pop worrying so much about the offense. Spurs fans can't whine about the defense out of one side of their mouths and then support Pop placing so much value in offensive fit out of the other side of their mouths.

As it is, the Spurs have the second most efficient offense in the league. Adding Ginobili to the mix will make it even better. Leonard isn't going to ruin that. And even if the offense struggles at times, I don't care. The defense is what needs to improve by any means necessary.

And like I wrote in the OP, it makes no sense to bring your defensive stopper off the bench because once a player gets going in the NBA, it's often too late.

Sure they can. It's about balance. Balance wins championships. The rotation he had, when they were healthy, gave them balance. Both units got some of Jefferson's outstanding spot up shooting and some of Leonard's strong defense. I see no reason to mess with that.

Leonard won't ruin the offensive efficiency, but he could mess up the synergy that starting lineup has developed. Everyone knows about the two obvious flaws in it, but they've been about the best regular season starting five in the last season and a bit and they give the team the most balance.

[ChuckD]

Bowen was often a liability on offense. He'd remain outside the 3pt line in the corner and other teams would slough off, making the Spurs go 4 on 5. He really didn't shoot the 3 often enough to make him a real threat that had to be defended.

While Leonard may never become a 3pt threat at all, his willingness to drive and pop a medium range jumper as well as to mix it up on rebounds will add a dimension.

Different players have different skill sets. Leonard's comparison to Bowen really lies in his equal willingness to play pressure defense as his primary job.

Bowen shot over 40% from 3 SIX times in his career, including an NBA leading 44% in 2002-2003, and shot over 200 3s seven times, so, not just no, no.

[++SaiNt TiAg0++]

love the write up however i do think your giving bowen too much credit. i loved bowen to death but he was pure defense.. to me our guy leonard has improved soo darn fast its ridiculous and kind of scary

(i can see how your cautious because of other prospects) but remember this kid was ACTUALLY supposed to be a way earlier pick and therefore i see less of a chance of the kid not coming through with the talents hes naturally good at.

as for his quickness did you see him against durant/martin and others? it was awesome seeing the man child go tippy toes and pedal backwards staying on his man all the way to the rim....ahhh defense !

anyway i think leonard landed with the perfect compliment coach for him. pop can work with Leonard b/cause he has natural born talent. i mean pops only real developed bball creation is MATT BONNER lol im still waiting for his arms to grow into his body

[polandprzem]

Good insight LJ

[crc21209]

I'm just glad we have a decent wing defender for the first time in years....

[silverblk mystix]

I can't wait for Leonard to be guarding Kobe in about 2-3 years...and watching him embarrass Kobe as Kobe's career winds down and Leonard ushers him out brutally...


...having said that...Leonard is no "centerpiece" yet....

[therealtruth]

He's got a good motor which is necessary for playing good defense.

[ducks]

espn announcers said same thing
said pop said he defends like bowen
barry even said it will not be long before he will guard point guards

[howbouthemspurs]

He's only 20? Wow! He has a lot to learn but he's doing really well already! Can't wait to see how good he can be!

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Oh how I love Kawhi Leonard. We have a real SF again.

[Mel_13]

Right now, starting Leonard at SG is a mistake, IMO. He's not ready for prime time yet and this will completely destroy what's left of Neal's confidence. Neal or Green should be starting, IMO and Kawhi should be backing up Jefferson.

It was a truly remarkable post and I just wanted to preserve it for posterity in case you decide to edit it later on.

And one game later.....

My personal preferences (given the spurs will not be able to make a move for another defensive minded big).

Keep Leonard in starting lineup w/ Jefferson. He seems quick enough to handle the SG position. Move Blair to bench, insert Splitter into starting lineup w/ Duncan. This helps Duncan have to do less of the heavy lifting.

Move Manu to the 2nd unit where he can ignite the offense. The turd towers will be a liability defensively, but hopefully with Manu running the show they can outscore their opponents.

That's just me, though, poppy probably has other plans.

Remarkable.

[TJastal]

And one game later.....



Remarkable.

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about Leonard if he keeps up this kind of play. If he continues to show he can handle the gig in the starting lineup I'll gladly eat crow. Who would have thought a 20 year old rookie would fit this well? I surely didn't.

Tough decisions often teeter precariously in the balance, in this case Neal's confidence level seems completely shot and may be MIA the rest of the year. If that's the case then it ceases to be a factor.

[Mel_13]

I'll be the first to admit I was wrong about Leonard if he keeps up this kind of play. If he continues to show he can handle the gig in the starting lineup I'll gladly eat crow. Who would have thought a 20 year old rookie would fit this well? I surely didn't.

Anyone claiming that they thought KL would fit this well, this soon is lying. For me, I was just hoping he would get regular minutes as RJ's backup. He's been a revelation.

Tough decisions often teeter precariously in the balance, in this case Neal's confidence level seems completely shot and may be MIA the rest of the year. If that's the case then it ceases to be a factor.

I'm not following you. What does the "it" refer back to?

[xellos88330]

So it appears that Leonard is getting more comfortable with his jumper. Hmmm...

[TJastal]

Anyone claiming that they thought KL would fit this well, this soon is lying. For me, I was just hoping he would get regular minutes as RJ's backup. He's been a revelation.



I'm not following you. What does the "it" refer back to?

"It" refers to Neal's confidence level. If it has sunk to a level of disrepair then you don't worry about that anymore. Especially considering the depth the spurs have at that position when Manu comes back and with the way Green has been playing. And you throw in the mix that Pop is experimenting (with success) Leonard at that position as well.

Add all that up and Neal better get his together quick or he's going to be a non-factor.

[Mel_13]

"It" refers to Neal's confidence level. If it has sunk to a level of disrepair then you don't worry about that anymore. Especially considering the depth the spurs have at that position when Manu comes back and with the way Green has been playing. And you throw in the mix that Pop is experimenting (with success) Leonard at that position as well.

Add all that up and Neal better get his together quick or he's going to be a non-factor.

Agreed. (Although we disagree as to the source of his woes, it really doesn't matter).

Anderson has already played himself out of the rotation. Neal probably stays in the rotation for now, but I don't see him surviving the returns of Manu/TJ and then the shortening of the rotation once the playoffs approach.

[Agloco]

Bowen was often a liability on offense. He'd remain outside the 3pt line in the corner and other teams would slough off, making the Spurs go 4 on 5. He really didn't shoot the 3 often enough to make him a real threat that had to be defended.

Really? You need hit the stat archives IMO.

[SequSpur]

After the Rockets game, Pop evoked the name of Bruce Bowen to describe the play of Kawhi Leonard.



Here are some thoughts on the comparison of Leonard to Bowen:

-As it stands right now, Leonard's defensive ability isn't in the same stratosphere as Bowen at his best (or Bowen at his worst, for that matter). And that's not a knock on Leonard. He's a 20-year-old who didn't have summer league or a training camp. In fact, he's already playing better defense than I thought he would in his rookie season.

At this point, Leonard has two distinct modes: he's even locked in to his opponent and neglecting most of his team defense responsibilities or he's flying around the court trying to cause havoc. Eventually he'll find the middle ground. That's something you can only learn through experience gained by playing and learning tendencies of each player in the league.

-Being an elite perimeter defender is extremely rare for a young player. Bowen was 30 years old when he joined the Spurs and it still took him a couple years to reach his peak performance on defense. The best perimeter defender in the game today is Tony Allen and he's 30. I can't think of a 20-year-old player off the top of my head who came into the league and received minutes mostly due to perimeter defense.

-Some scouts questioned whether Leonard was able to play small forward -- they said he was actually going to be forced to play power forward. Thankfully, those scouts were wrong. Leonard is definitely capable of playing small forward on both ends. In fact, he's starting at shooting guard right now. Going forward, if Leonard can turn into a legit shooting guard, that would be scary good because he could physically overwhelm just about every SG in the league due to his combination of bulk, size and length.

-So far, we've seen Leonard defend small forwards and shooting guards. Can he defend point guards? Hopefully Pop gives him a shot because if he can, that shoots his value up another notch. I'm not sure he has the quickness but it's worth a try. Another thing to try is to see if Leonard can handle true power forwards. We've seen him on smaller power forwards like Lamar Odom but if Leonard can legitimately defend point guards through power forwards, that alone would be enough to guarantee him a long, successful NBA career.

-Speaking of Leonard's quickness and athleticism, that may be the one question mark when it comes to his ability to become an elite defender. Most of the scouting reports on Leonard said he was a great athlete. In reality, however, he's deceptively not that athletic for an NBA player with his build. He doesn't jump especially well. He's not that fast. His rebounding and defensive play thus far has relied on lightning fast reflexes, great hands and good timing. But will that be enough? Back when Bowen was young, he could dunk from the free throw line and he was always fast. You don't need to be Carl Lewis to be a great defender but most recent examples of elite perimeter defenders have been A athletes. Leonard, from everything I've seen, is closer to a B athlete.

-Chances are, Leonard won't become as good as Bowen was defensively. Bowen was one of the best perimeter defenders to ever play the game, so that's not really a knock on Leonard. But Leonard already rebounds about twice as well as Bowen ever did and he has tools to become an average to above average offensive player. Bowen was always markedly below average by any measure. Thus, even if Leonard doesn't reach Bowen's level defensively, he could still reach the status of championship quality starter by other means.

-If Pop is going to fully commit to Leonard being the next Bowen, Pop needs to start him from here on out. As we saw in the Bucks game, bringing your ace perimeter defender off the bench doesn't work because once an NBA player gets hot, it's almost impossible to cool him off (See: Jackson, Stephen). Once Manu Ginobili returns, the right adjustment is to move Richard Jefferson to the bench. Jefferson's skillset (shooting and running the floor, mostly) works as well or even better off the bench since opposing teams won't be able to key on him as easily. Let's see if Pop is all talk or he's willing to put his rotation where is mouth is.

-One reason why Pop loves Leonard so much so early is that Leonard doesn't foul. At all. Pop hates nothing more than useless fouls out on the perimeter. Pop's two tenets to perimeter defending: Don't foul and don't let your man drive middle. Leonard is averaging 1.6 fouls per 36 minutes. Bowen rarely fouled and his lowest foul rate was 2.3 fouls per 36 minutes. In NBA history, only one rookie swingman fouled at a lower rate than Leonard's current rate: Peja Stojakovic -- and he wasn't exactly the Sacramento's perimeter defensive stopper.

While such a microscopic foul rate is mostly good, it probably points to Leonard having room to grow in terms of being more physical. Bowen tiptoed the line between being physical and fouling. Leonard doesn't have to be as safe as he's currently playing.

-Another thing Leonard hardly does is turn the ball over. In 243 minutes, he has five turnovers for a TOV% of 5.8. To put that in perspective, Matt Bonner always leads the team in lowest TOV% and his lowest number as a Spur was 6.3 back in '08-09. Bonner's TOV% is low because all he usually does is catch-and-shoot. Leonard's numbe
r being low is extra impressive since he does a lot more than just stand around on the perimeter. Historically, no rookie has played 500 minutes and posted a TOV% that low -- at any position.

-Overall, it'll be interesting to see how it goes the rest of the season with Leonard. We saw Danny Green explode ... only to regress. Leonard surely will have a few bumps in the road but his short-term and long-term potential is exciting. Let's hope he keeps learning game by game and that Pop continues to bring him along at a rapid pace.

[BoricuaCJA]

Really? You need hit the stat archives IMO.

He needs to imho.

[timvp]

-So far, we've seen Leonard defend small forwards and shooting guards. Can he defend point guards? Hopefully Pop gives him a shot because if he can, that shoots his value up another notch.

Leonard currently defending Jameer Nelson.

[DPG21920]

Jameer kind of sucks though.