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  1. #26
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    (braces from CoP responses)

  2. #27
    Believe. 5in10's Avatar
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    - Parker went into force mode in the second half.
    -we went away from Blair in the second half.
    -for all the points green had, he helped spark their run with turnovers.
    -cory needs work on his jumper.
    -Anderson has lost a lot of confidence and has no idea what he wants to
    Do.
    -Leonard was the only one that looked like he took it personal. You could see it in his body language, and he took it straight to James for mid range
    Jumper to end our drought. Unfortunately that was all.
    -I thought the officials were completely one sided. We were getting demolished.

  3. #28
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    But is it really unfair to ask for more from Tony (and Tim) when the team is in a tough situation like that?
    (braces from CoP responses)


    I would have given Parker a D for his play in that eight minute stretch in the third. He got hit with a trapping zone and was pretty clueless. No excuse for that.

    But my point was that even when the offense worked and the Spurs got the shot they wanted, they couldn't cash in. Once that happened, everyone -- including Parker -- tightened up and the offense ceased to exist.

    Usually, teams can't run a trapping zone against the Spurs because Pop will just put Parker and Manu on the floor at the same time and the Spurs will carve it up. But with no Manu and not even a capable creator at shooting guard (like even a Brent Barry), even when Parker got rid of it, the other players basically just stood around and were helpless until Parker ran to get the ball back.

    Tbh, if you are facing a TP/Leonard/Jefferson threesome, you should trap and zone the Spurs to death. Let's hope other teams weren't watching.

  4. #29
    Ginobili Rules Manu20's Avatar
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    This kind of beat down makes me glad basketball games are played every other day....or in this case tomorrow.

  5. #30
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I would have given Parker a D for his play in that eight minute stretch in the third. He got hit with a trapping zone and was pretty clueless. No excuse for that.

    But my point was that even when the offense worked and the Spurs got the shot they wanted, they couldn't cash in. Once that happened, everyone -- including Parker -- tightened up and the offense ceased to exist.

    Usually, teams can't run a trapping zone against the Spurs because Pop will just put Parker and Manu on the floor at the same time and the Spurs will carve it up. But with no Manu and not even a capable creator at shooting guard (like even a Brent Barry), even when Parker got rid of it, the other players basically just stood around and were helpless until Parker ran to get the ball back.

    Tbh, if you are facing a TP/Leonard/Jefferson threesome, you should trap and zone the Spurs to death. Let's hope other teams weren't watching.
    When Manu is not out there, what we miss the most against the zone is a capable passing big (heck, I'll just say it, Oberto). Guys that played in Europe see a lot more of zone and they know how to step to the top of the free throw line to create sort of a "hole" (kinda looks like the triangle offense, but outside the post). You probably know what I mean. Fab used to be ridiculously good at it.
    Then you can either play inside with the other big, the wings backdoor cut inside and the guards roam the 3 point line.

    Now that I think about it, I wonder if Tiago wouldn't have been able to help more than Blair in a situation like that.

    But I agree. We had no clue what to do. And shooting our way out of it just can't be the only solution.

  6. #31
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    BTW, this is the offense I'm talking about:


  7. #32
    Believe.
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    Danny Green deserved at least a B. Although he made mistakes, he hustled, kept fighting, and most importantly kept playing D (somewhat). Everyone else just seemed to fold. It wasn't just Lebron going off, but the energy and D being non-existent in the 3rd quarter. The loss is definitely on the whole team.
    yeah I agree too, at least offence wise. And Duncan should have done more. We see the past Duncan for one game and he disappear for the next few. Without Manu, TD and TP has to carry this team, and its looks like TP doing his part, but so far I don't see that from TD.
    We all know that he can do way better than what he showing us. Just can't wait for TD to play as he could and take over this team. For us to win a championship, he has to play way better than this.

  8. #33
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    yeah I agree too, at least offence wise. And Duncan should have done more. We see the past Duncan for one game and he disappear for the next few. Without Manu, TD and TP has to carry this team, and its looks like TP doing his part, but so far I don't see that from TD.
    We all know that he can do way better than what he showing us. Just can't wait for TD to play as he could and take over this team. For us to win a championship, he has to play way better than this.
    td to passive on the offensive end when his shots are falling, he doesnt demand the ball more, but continue to start playin like another scrub making up the numbers on t he court for 5on5...

  9. #34
    I'm poplovin' it! TJastal's Avatar
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    yeah I agree too, at least offence wise. And Duncan should have done more. We see the past Duncan for one game and he disappear for the next few. Without Manu, TD and TP has to carry this team, and its looks like TP doing his part, but so far I don't see that from TD.
    We all know that he can do way better than what he showing us. Just can't wait for TD to play as he could and take over this team. For us to win a championship, he has to play way better than this.
    We'll see how many points you can score when your frontcourt partner has been either Matt Bonner or Dejuan Blair the past 4 years running.

  10. #35
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    I wish I had something to say about this game. The Spurs were up around 11. I took all the kids to the dining room so they could play with puzzles. I came back, the Spurs were down 10+. I thought the score was backward on the TV, but then I saw LeBron going wild.

    Hopefully the Spurs don't let this game break their confidence. They really need to win a road game, and winning this one in high style (like the way they were playing in the first half) would have been huge. Now they are back to a mediocre team that can't win out outside their own barn.

  11. #36
    Work in Progress Fireball's Avatar
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    This kind of beat down makes me glad basketball games are played every other day....or in this case tomorrow.
    Remember last season's game in Orlando? Tonight will be the same ... we will get killed by the three ... not even hack a Howard will save the Spurs on a second night of a B2B. Yeah, and I know Orlando is on a B2B as well ...

  12. #37
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Remember last season's game in Orlando? Tonight will be the same ... we will get killed by the three ... not even hack a Howard will save the Spurs on a second night of a B2B. Yeah, and I know Orlando is on a B2B as well ...
    IIRC, Orlando is on a b2b2b

  13. #38
    Big in Japan GSH's Avatar
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    Check how Green defended that pick-and-roll. It was the same thing he did against Scola that allowed the Lowry three-pointer. He can't starting fighting the screen before it's even set -- he needs to keep separation. By contacting the big so early, he's going to get picked off no matter what happens.


    And TJ was pretty damn bad outside of two games, fwiw

    Most of that I can't argue with. (I'll save the T.J. Ford discussion for another time.) Don't forget, though, that LeBron missed his first shot of the second half, and then turned it over right after that. He didn't come out on fire. It was the defense that lit their whole team up. When LeBron missed that first shot, the Spurs let Anthony grab an offensive board and slam it home. Then Parker immediately turned it over and Bosh got an easy bucket. I'm just saying.

    But... Green does, indeed, struggle with the screens - and not just tonight. I wouldn't even think about arguing that. I hope you're right that he'll learn. But on that last play late in the 2nd, Blair had fallen into what I've started calling his ADD mode. He just loses focus. He was an absolute spectator on that play. No matter how it developed, he wasn't going to be of any use anywhere. I don't think it's coincidence that it was in the last minute and a half of a period, where the Spurs had a comfortable lead. He checks out early... often. And it's probably worth 3-5 points per game on average. Pretty influential, if you ask me.

    I commented at the half that it was Tony who was largely responsible for their performance. Spoelstra obviously thought so, too. Stop Tony, and you stop the Spurs offense. At the risk of starting a poop-storm with some people - Tony has always had a difficult time breaking down a zone. The Heat brought the zone and doubled on Tony some, and no one else was able to spark any offense. It might have been a good time for Pop to have been able to go to that Tony-TJ lineup. (Blasphemy, right?) But Ford is out, and CoJo probably isn't ready for that duty yet. Can't blame Pop for that.

    But how about this:
    I do think Pop needs to re-think some strategy for this compressed season. He's obviously committed to shortening everyone's minutes, and that's probably a good thing. BUT, I think he needs to re-think the foul situation as well. Tim got two early fouls - but then he finished the game with... wait for it... two fouls. When that third quarter started getting out of hand, Pop should have called a time out and told Tim to start cracking some heads (figuratively). At that point, what is he saving fouls for? Tim's playing 26 minutes or so per night. Pop isn't going to leave him in forever, with a game against Orlando tomorrow. Treat it like a 28 minute game. If he's got 4 fouls by the end of the third, who cares? He's not going to play the whole fourth anyway. Let him foul out in the fourth. If anybody can make judicious use of a couple of extra fouls, it's Tim. And I'd rather Tim be on the bench for fouling out, than because the game is out of hand. And maybe, just maybe, the Spurs could have matched the Heat's physicality, and disrupted that rhythm before it got going. I'm not talking about a one-game adjustment. I'm talking about a change of strategy, to complement the rest of the strategy he's already adopted.
    Last edited by GSH; 01-18-2012 at 02:49 AM.

  14. #39
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    I'll agree with GSH on the Blair ing around at times. I'll add that I've grown to really dislike his smug smile whenever he gets called for a foul (normally when reaching trying to get a steal, which is a foul). Especially tonight where he picked up his 4th foul really early and Splitter was already in foul trouble.

    I've been giving Blair a pass because he's still learning in this league, being that it's his 3rd season and all. But it's getting to the point where he needs to smarten up, and start playing and acting like a pro.

  15. #40
    I'm poplovin' it! TJastal's Avatar
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    Most of that I can't argue with. (I'll save the T.J. Ford discussion for another time.) Don't forget, though, that LeBron missed his first shot of the second half, and then turned it over right after that. He didn't come out on fire. It was the defense that lit their whole team up. When LeBron missed that first shot, the Spurs let Anthony grab an offensive board and slam it home. Then Parker immediately turned it over and Bosh got an easy bucket. I'm just saying.

    But... Green does, indeed, struggle with the screens - and not just tonight. I wouldn't even think about arguing that. I hope you're right that he'll learn. But on that last play late in the 2nd, Blair had fallen into what I've started calling his ADD mode. He just loses focus. He was an absolute spectator on that play. No matter how it developed, he wasn't going to be of any use anywhere. I don't think it's coincidence that it was in the last minute and a half of a period, where the Spurs had a comfortable lead. He checks out early... often. And it's probably worth 3-5 points per game on average. Pretty influential, if you ask me.

    GSH you should know by now Pop prefers his fouls of the and-1 variety with minimal contact. Kind of like when he's we can't commit fouls. Guys who do

    At the risk of starting a poop-storm with some people - Tony has always had a difficult time breaking down a zone. I commented at the half that it was Tony who was largely responsible for their performance. Spoelstra obviously thought so, too. He brought the zone and doubled on Tony some, and no one else was able to spark any offense. It might have been a good time for Pop to have been able to go to that Tony-TJ lineup. (Blasphemy, right?) But Ford is out, and CoJo probably isn't ready for that duty yet. Can't blame Pop for that.

    But how about this:
    I do think Pop needs to re-think some strategy for this compressed season. He's obviously committed to shortening everyone's minutes, and that's probably a good thing. BUT, I think he needs to re-think the foul situation as well. Tim got two early fouls - but then he finished the game with... wait for it... two fouls. When that third quarter started getting out of hand, Pop should have called a time out and told Tim to start cracking some heads (figuratively). At that point, what is he saving fouls for? Tim's playing 26 minutes or so per night. Pop isn't going to leave him in forever, with a game against Orlando tomorrow. Treat it like a 28 minute game. If he's got 4 fouls by the end of the third, who cares? He's not going to play the whole fourth anyway. Let him foul out in the fourth. If anybody can make judicious use of a couple of extra fouls, it's Tim. And I'd rather Tim be on the bench for fouling out, than because the game is out of hand. And maybe, just maybe, the Spurs could have matched the Heat's physicality, and disrupted that rhythm before it got going. I'm not talking about a one-game adjustment. I'm talking about a change of strategy, to complement the rest of the strategy he's already adopted.
    Sounds like it would have been a good time for Pop to sub in Mahinmi and Cardinal to bust some heads.

    Oh wait, they play for Dallas. Never mind.

  16. #41
    I'm poplovin' it! TJastal's Avatar
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    I'll agree with GSH on the Blair ing around at times. I'll add that I've grown to really dislike his smug smile whenever he gets called for a foul (normally when reaching trying to get a steal, which is a foul). Especially tonight where he picked up his 4th foul really early and Splitter was already in foul trouble.

    I've been giving Blair a pass because he's still learning in this league, being that it's his 3rd season and all. But it's getting to the point where he needs to smarten up, and start playing and acting like a pro.
    When you surrender the league leading PER to your opponent its gonna take more than smarts to save you.

  17. #42
    One TEAM One Goal siraulo23's Avatar
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    Lebron got hot, it reminded me of the game he had vs the bucks

    Leonard shut him down in the first quarter, and did a good job in the 2nd quarter

    When lebron j is on, he's unstoppable which happened in the 3rd

    Didnt even bother watching the 4th quarter, the 3rd was brutal enough

  18. #43
    Believe. dylankerouac's Avatar
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    Matt Bonner - F

    He had two passes headed to him that became turnovers because he was astounded that anyone would ever throw him a pass.

    There was a a play in the second half where Bonner outruns everyone to the Spurs rim only to not provide help defense against a shot by a Heat player at the rim (I think this ended up being a dunk).

    Bonner needs his minutes halved.

  19. #44
    The 6th is coming... will_spurs's Avatar
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    When you surrender the league leading PER to your opponent its gonna take more than smarts to save you.
    Just for info, where is this stat available?

    Re: TP and the zone, there won't be any CoP comments. It's just true, but it's quite easy to understand why: you just can't go hero-mode against a zone. That's the point where TP needs help from just anybody to create on offense. That's when the TP-Manu or TP-TJ lineups are really useful. The thing is, these 2 players are injured, and nobody else can create on offense (Neal and RJ should be able to, at least).

  20. #45
    Inthe land of audiophiles angelbelow's Avatar
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    Thomas had a nice strong post up that he missed. But the footwork and elevation looked good.

    Splitter played really well the first 5-7 minutes of the 4th quarter but fell completely flat on the next 2 or 3.

    Cory Joseph's shot is pretty suspect. Badly missed 3 pointers and jumpers were a glaring problem. The good news is that hes not afraid to drive the ball and draw contact. Don't think he actually went to the free throw line in the 4th but had some nice layups.

    A big problem was definitely uncontested 3 pointers in the 4th quarter. Way too many of Mike Miller's 3 pt attempts (at least 5 out of 6) were wide open and in rhythm.

  21. #46
    I'm poplovin' it! TJastal's Avatar
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    Just for info, where is this stat available?

    Re: TP and the zone, there won't be any CoP comments. It's just true, but it's quite easy to understand why: you just can't go hero-mode against a zone. That's the point where TP needs help from just anybody to create on offense. That's when the TP-Manu or TP-TJ lineups are really useful. The thing is, these 2 players are injured, and nobody else can create on offense (Neal and RJ should be able to, at least).
    Timvp mentioend it in this thread.

    http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=189716

    Don't think there was a link. If Timvp says its so, I don't question it.

    Really hard to believe that Timmy still puts up the numbers he does with these kind of dregs Pop assigns to play next to him. Must be like trying to balance on a single waterski on choppy waters with a bowling ball swinging from your neck.

  22. #47
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    It's not like the Spurs were playing perfect basketball in the first half. Yes shots were going in but the Heat had 49 and were shooting 47%. That kind of defense is not going to get it done. Pop has guys buying the koolaid that you can shoot 50%+ to win games.

  23. #48
    NBAChamp..to be Continued SpurNation's Avatar
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    What I witnessed most in this game was the perimeter players sagging more to the paint in hopes of better defending the post against drives in the lane and perhaps to lend a "helping hand" to those struggling to defend the paint.

    This allowed for some easy look 3's to be attempted. Miami complied.

  24. #49
    I'm poplovin' it! TJastal's Avatar
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    What I witnessed most in this game was the perimeter players sagging more to the paint in hopes of better defending the post against drives in the lane and perhaps to lend a "helping hand" to those struggling to defend the paint.

    This allowed for some easy look 3's to be attempted. Miami complied.
    +1

    When the middle is solid, the perimeter players can play more aggressively out on the shooters.

    When your middle consists of Bonner & Blair and a coach who insists on spreading their minutes across the entire dearth of the game in a futile and idiotic attempt to mask their deficiencies, it's like a ship that's constantly taking on water... sooner or later its going down.

  25. #50
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    What I witnessed most in this game was the perimeter players sagging more to the paint in hopes of better defending the post against drives in the lane and perhaps to lend a "helping hand" to those struggling to defend the paint.

    This allowed for some easy look 3's to be attempted. Miami complied.
    The lack of interior defense weakens any advantage the Spurs have on the perimeter. It's what caused them to lose to the Grizzlies. Teams are going to attack that in the playoffs.

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