Why are athiests so hated in the USA?

[JoeChalupa]

How do you know it was me? How do you know you weren't hallucinating, or that this is all a dream?

I can't prove there is no afterlife, and I have no problem with people who believe in one. More power to them. But just because one can't disprove the existence of something doesn't justify belief. (ie. invisible pink unicorn/flying spaghetti monster)

I hear ya but faith isn't always based on scientific facts and that is why it is referred to as faith. Blessed is he who has not seen....yet believes. Okay, enough preaching. I guess I'm just comfortable with my faith and what I believe in and those are not, more power to them. Personal preference.

[DarkReign]

These threads got old years ago, but I just wanted to point an experience out that I just had recently that I think about to chuckle.

These two individuals whom I know incredibly well are intelligent, successful and very cool. Have had innumerable conversations with them about everything and anything including religion and have never once come away with any impression of them other than favorable.

Just recently, I was having a conversation with one and it trekked into "areas of fault" that one may feel about the other. I offered no criticism as I am loathe to engage anyone on such grounds because I feel that most people I interact with are spineless ing cowards one or two steps away from having a mental breakdown because someone they know might have a low opinion of them in certain aspects.

His criticism of me? My faithlessness.

I was taken aback to say the least. Stood there in silence and it basically came down to not my faithlessness but the faithlessness that I will inevitably pass onto my son.

He said "Give the kid a chance. Baptize him, send him to church and Sunday school then let him decide". It was everything I could do to not laugh in his face...out of respect, I did not.

That is a practicing Christian's idea of "giving them a chance". Indoctrinate them young so that when they get older the idea that an invisible man in the sky sent his only son down to Earth wont sound like the complete and utter horse that it is. That isnt "a chance", thats stacking the deck in religion's favor.

Whatever...I brushed it off and moved on. Later that day both individuals and myself are talking. Seems they had a talk about the conversation and decided it was time they had a...I dont know the words, but basically a lite intervention with me on the subject in tandem.

I am the most patient individual on the planet irl, my want to offend people personally is at its bare minimum, so I let them speak...for about a half an hour. God this, Jesus that, wont be saved, do you realize what that means?, etc.

I basically said this;

I have listened to both of you for years without nary a peep from me in contrast or a statement of my position. Now you feel is the time to tag team me with this? Why? Because of my son's salvation? How about this, you worry about your salvation and I will worry about my son's.

Since we are on the subject that you both feel so strongly about, I have always known to never have a real conversation with you about this because our relationship would be ruined should we do so. But now that you feel its the right time to step on my toes, its time I stepped on yours. Know this, you can end this conversation right now and we can pretend it did not happen and our relationship will not change. But if you do not end this conversation, know that you and I will probably never speak to each other in the same way ever again. End the conversation?

Them: No.

Fine. My problem is not with God, its with you and everyone like you. Its with your sense of en lement above others, its your conviction that you know something everyone else does not. That you could even pretend to know is an offense to me and it always has been. Just because a book is old does not make it truth, but since you were indoctrinated at such a young age (the same thing youre trying to do to my son, btw), your ability to even objectively look at the story as anything other than fiction has been blurred and will forever obscure your viewpoint.

Moreover, we sit here and have conversations about everything under the Sun, from family, to news, to science, to technology to everything and even religion. But do you know what makes me seriously doubt anything that has ever come out of your mouths? What makes me question your every thought process and conclusion? Your willingness to make yourselves look like buffoons by wasting your time, energy and life arguing with and wrestling with a completely fabricated story.

If I spent the rest of my life studying the Lord of the Rings under the complete conviction that it was a true story and that the nuances therein were a guide to how to live, love and spread joy, would you think me odd? I know I would. Someone peddling the "Two Towers" on the street corner while professing Gandolf to be be the son of God would be something to ridicule and condemn.

But that isnt the case here, is it? You have ~2000 years of confirmation bias and social acceptance to stand on as "proof". You have past and present world leaders and positions of power filled to the brim with like-minded people to look to as "proof". All based on the conquest and conversion of new lands by people who are nothing like you, never were and never will be. That two adult Americans in the 21st century could readily, willingly and constantly suspend their disbelief every single day to make a 2000 year old story be true to the very fabric of their soul offends me. It makes me think less of you. Do you still believe in Santa Claus? The Easter Bunny? Leprechauns? Fairies? Dragons? Well why the not dragons? The story is older than Christ by millenia and the remains of giant flying lizards are called Pterodactyls? Oh, is it because they breathed fire? Thats what makes the idea of dragons preposterous for you?!

Never speak to me about this again. Leave my son out of your thoughts about religion, and remember, you bombarded me, had conversations about me without me being present, thought about how you would do this before this ever happened. I am done playing ing nice with both of you. You know where I stand and what I think of two grown men believing in ing fairy tales told thousands of years ago. Got it?

Stunned silence. Havent spoken much since.

[clambake]

[clambake]

the gall to tell you what to do with your son.

that would be our last conversation, ever.

[Winehole23]

Giving you advice about indoctrinating your own kid is a bit presumptuous. The gall of that presumption is not tempered by any degree or kind of well-meaning, however understandable it may be, jmo.

[DarkReign]

Giving you advice about indoctrinating your own kid is a bit presumptuous. The gall of that presumption is not tempered by any degree or kind of well-meaning, however understandable it may be, jmo.

Its the complete lack of respect they showed. Until that day, I had never once, never even hinted at my stance on the subject besides being faithless.

I guess they mistook my silence as as a sort of opening for "enlightenment".

Lesson learned: Make sure those close to you know to never broach subjects on which you feel strongly about. Your silence only sets them up for abject failure and will sour your relationship indefinitely.

[DarkReign]

the gall to tell you what to do with your son.

that would be our last conversation, ever.

Difficult to do with in-laws.

[clambake]

Difficult to do with in-laws.

inside job, eh?

[clambake]

should be an adequate warning for the others.

[baseline bum]

Its the complete lack of respect they showed. Until that day, I had never once, never even hinted at my stance on the subject besides being faithless.

I guess they mistook my silence as as a sort of opening for "enlightenment".

Lesson learned: Make sure those close to you know to never broach subjects on which you feel strongly about. Your silence only sets them up for abject failure and will sour your relationship indefinitely.

DR, you should have told them you'd go to church for a while if they paid your 10% of earnings heaven tax until you made up your mind whether you believed it or not.

[Winehole23]

Its the complete lack of respect they showed.

Respect is a biggie. You don't get it if you don't give it.

Telling you what to do with your kid and judging you as a person for disagreeing with them on matters of belief is straight up disrespectful and unfriendly. If they say their belief requires them to do so, I think it's safe to say that's bull .

[LnGrrrR]

I hear ya but faith isn't always based on scientific facts and that is why it is referred to as faith. Blessed is he who has not seen....yet believes. Okay, enough preaching. I guess I'm just comfortable with my faith and what I believe in and those are not, more power to them. Personal preference.

Same here Joe, and same to you. I've got no problems with believers that respect my right not to believe.

[DarkReign]

DR, you should have told them you'd go to church for a while if they paid your 10% of earnings heaven tax until you made up your mind whether you believed it or not.

Brilliant.

Respect is a biggie. You don't get it if you don't give it.

Telling you what to do with your kid and judging you as a person for disagreeing with them on matters of belief is straight up disrespectful and unfriendly. If they say their belief requires them to do so, I think it's safe to say that's bull .

Your last sentence rings too many bells. "My service requires spreading the Word, even to those who refuse to listen." I have other funny anecdotes that would at least make you smile.

All I will say is thats its funny how the religious people that I know only have "friends" from church and nowhere else. And by "friends", I mean people you see once a week and have birthday parties with your kids but never once actually have a disagreement with because you will no longer be "friends" anymore.

[clambake]

next time someone brings it up, just ask them what its like to be influenced by the simplest form of mass manipulation ever invented.

[Blake]

generalizing about intelligence on the basis of degree of religiosity is not really distinguishable from that

Of course there's no true way to quantify IQ levels if Christians.

I do think that the great majority of christians running their mouths are intellectually lazy regarding basic tenets of their belief system....yet they go all in on it.

That's the type of religious nut I find to be stupid.

[Winehole23]

it's possible to evangelize without being an arrogant, disrespectful jerk, but apparently some people take that as a requirement.

[LnGrrrR]

I think my wife's family was rather shocked when they found out I was an atheist, because I was such a "nice person". Ah well, changing hearts and minds one step at a time, etc etc...

[Wild Cobra]

I think my wife's family was rather shocked when they found out I was an atheist, because I was such a "nice person". Ah well, changing hearts and minds one step at a time, etc etc...

Probably gets a bit annoying when they try to "save" you?

[Winehole23]

I do think that the great majority of christians running their mouths are intellectually lazy regarding basic tenets of their belief system....yet they go all in on it.

More reflexive bigotry. Most people are intellectually lazy. That's hardly peculiar to Christians.

That's the type of religious nut I find to be stupid.

Mouthy, ignorant, lazy, and very opinionated?





(we don't get very much of that here)

[LnGrrrR]

Probably gets a bit annoying when they try to "save" you?

Actually, they've been very respectful about that. They understand that we differ in our views, and I've told my wife that if she wants to discuss God with the children, or bring them to church occasionally, then she can. However, I get to explain to them my lack of belief, and when they get older the kids can choose what to believe.

(As far as the church thing, my wife tends not to bother )

But I've had friends and family try to "save" me, or say things like, "I'd have never married my husband if he were an atheist", and yes, it can be somewhat offensive.

[Blake]

you seem to have a problem with it here, too

I have no real problem with metaphysical arguments here.

Don't confuse that with me simply making fun of the people using the same old, tired, easily shot down arguments such as: "you can't prove that god doesn't exist"

[LnGrrrR]

More reflexive bigotry. Most people are intellectually lazy. That's hardly peculiar to Christians.

While obviously true, I find that most atheists (and most Non-Christians) have been more apt to have critically examined their faith/belief structure. Christianity tends to be the "default" and so I think many people believe without actually looking at the reasons behind their belief.

[Blake]

so then, your generalization about "Bible God" hating atheists worst of all was more or less fantasized, wasn't it?

There's no generalization about it. It is clearly written in the OT about the way God treated the pagan nations. He slaughtered many before sending them to .

Today, a Christian will tell you that murderers, rapists and thieves can get mansions in heaven while the non-believer burns forever in .

[Blake]

More reflexive bigotry. Most people are intellectually lazy. That's hardly peculiar to Christians.
Mouthy, ignorant, lazy, and very opinionated?

(we don't get very much of that here)

Is there a point you are trying to get across to me in this particular case, or is this just you doing your standard measuring?

[Winehole23]

There's no generalization about it. It is clearly written in the OT about the way God treated the pagan nations. He slaughtered many before sending them to .

God smote the enemies of Israel? Isn't that part of the job description when you're a tribal deity? Womp ass on enemies? Hard to see what the gripe is, tbh.

Today, a Christian will tell you that murderers, rapists and thieves can get mansions in heaven while the non-believer burns forever in .

Well, you can't believe everything everybody tells you. Particularly people who claim to be experts on the eschatological deeds and the final disposition of things.