Let's Talk Rebuilding

[Fabbs]

Yea it is interesting to think about. Parker is proving to be invaluable on our squad this year though, and I'm glad we have kept him thus far and hope we always do. His scoring and playmaking has been essential, even more so with Manu's absence.



Personally I wanna go all out after Hibbert; young, first time all star this season who I believe is going to continue to improve a whole lot. Just look at how much he has since he was a rookie already.

Good point(s). While i know you are thinking of Hibbert now there is a good example of what one could assume Indiana would have jumped at. GNob for Hibbert and ???? (more) in 09 or 10. Hate losing GNob but with his injuries etc we are 6-14 in the playoffs since 2008.
Now matter how the Dumpsters slice it.

[jjktkk]

OP is basing too much on sentimentality. Also do we need to post your quotes on Pop going senile? Yet you'd continue to hand him the keys? You take the keys away from senile/obstinate Gramps, not hand them to him.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...hlight=Celtics

Another Spurs championship without one of the Big 3 would have/would now go over just fine.
Prolly much too late now to trade any of them for much, excepting Parker.

Would OKC have gone for a GNob or Parker for 2nd overall pick (turned out to be Durant)? OKCs front office is so much smarter then Spurs 2008-current front office but still, i think they would have considered it.

Speaking of senile...

[ChumpDumper]

Ah, a thread about the future has turned into a another fapping session for alternative timelines in the past.

Good job, retropsychic time-traveleing spurfan.

[Mel_13]

It's amazing how he can get so much wrong even with the benefit of hindsight..

[K-State Spur]

The Spurs had that same feel this time last season. I don't care at all how this team starts; how it finishes is what matters.

As badly as the team played against Memphis - they likely get past the Grizz with a healthy Manu.

There are no teams in the West going past the first round, and no teams in the East going past the second round without their best player near 100%.

Health matters, unfortunately you have to roll the dice that the guys won't get hurt.

[Muser]

lol Parker for Bynum

Why not do Parker for Greg Oden while we're at it.

[jjktkk]

You can both keep hiding and twisting what i actually posted but in summer 2007 i am saying OKC might have went for Finals MVP Parker for #2. Which turned out to be Durant.

You clowns are saying no way would OKC have considered Finals MVP Parker for the #2 yet-as-chosen pick. I'm calling bull .

2010 Parker or GNob for the Clips pick. Even Parker and GNob. Yeah that's a hard sell for even the Clips, who seemed to have wised up by 2010.

Highly entertaining when you isolate yourself as the ,1% vs. the 99% of the forum, that knows what hes talking about, regarding the Spurs. Keep digging your hole.

[timvp]

Ah, a thread about the future has turned into a another fapping session for alternative timelines in the past.

Good job, retropsychic time-traveleing spurfan.

Yeah, seriously, let's keep this a rebuilding thread and not a revisionist history thread about how the Spurs should have rebuilt via trades that never made any sense.









I'm surprised Coach Bud hasn't been given some sort of "head coach in waiting" tag. It'd suck to lose him and have to turn to someone like Don Newman.

That said, as much as Pop always talks about walking away when Duncan walks away, I get the feeling that he enjoys everything too much. Add in his love for TP and he might stay on until TP eventually retires/leaves.

[timvp]

If the Spurs trade away Manu for equal or lesser likely value, the Spurs will lose the money people want them to spend in the future. Gotta pay him and Duncan until they don't want to play in the NBA anymore. Try to end their careers with unguaranteed deals for the years they retire so they could take on some contracts in trade.

Yeah, I agree with that. You give away Ginobili, the cost in actual money is huge. Fans would abandon the Spurs left and right.

It's difficult to quantify that sort of potential loss but it definitely should be part of the equation.

[jjktkk]

If TJastal starts with his takes and we get all three(vander) in the same thread the forum might crash.

[baseline bum]

As badly as the team played against Memphis - they likely get past the Grizz with a healthy Manu.

There are no teams in the West going past the first round, and no teams in the East going past the second round without their best player near 100%.

Health matters, unfortunately you have to roll the dice that the guys won't get hurt.

I don't see it; they came two lucky shots from dropping the series in 5.

[timvp]

There's no doubt the fans will stop coming for a 20 win team. But I think they'll also stop coming for a 38-42 win team too.

That's a fair take. Although I think there's a difference between a mediocre team that the fans can still connect with and a mediocre team that is the creation of a scorched earth scenario.

The one thing I can't get passed is the fact that you can always go scorched earth but you can't always try the "gentle transition" approach. Say the Spurs transition to Parker/Splitter/Leonard and it fails ... you'd basically be at the same spot then than if you burn everything to the ground after this season.

And really, you might be better off because if you tear everything down, the assets you'd get in trades would probably ripen before the Spurs are ready to compete again.

It'll be difficult no matter the rebuilding plan but I no longer see enough upside to a total dismantling when there is a slight glimmer of hope in another route.

[Fabbs]

Yeah, seriously, let's keep this a rebuilding thread and not a revisionist history thread about how the Spurs should have rebuilt via trades that never made any sense.

What a cop out. Ok 6-14 crew, carry on.....

timvp

In the past, I thought that the best way to rebuild would be to tear everything down completely once the run is over and then rebuild through the draft. More specifically, I believed the smartest thing to do would be to trade Tony Parker and any other asset once Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili's time was over. I also was against the idea of holding on for as long as possible because I didn't see the value of wasting years in no man's land.

[ChumpDumper]

What a cop out. Ok 6-14 crew, carry on.....

I'm sure your retro fantasy Bynum trade has the Spurs at 48-0 so far.

Congratulations.

Nickname.

[timvp]

one characteristic that separates us from most franchises: the family and loyalty cultivated by the Robinson era and continued by the Duncan era. If we blow the team up, the support for that mentality goes down the drain, and the franchise is near dead bottom in terms of overall viability. It will be more difficult to keep draft picks and snag free agents. The family mentality is our only advantage and by getting rid of the big three e will have given up our only advantage in acquisitions.

This is something that I'm starting to believe in. Yeah, it sounds corny. Spurs = Class blah blah. But ... some players seem to buy it. Especially European players looking at the NBA from the outside. Many Euro players who don't even like the NBA would consider playing for the Spurs due to their image of being a first class organization that takes care of its players.

By doing a gentle transition, you keep that image intact and maybe that's enough to sway a free agent or two to sign in San Antonio when everything else is equal. Or in the future, a franchise player on the Spurs could want to follow in the footsteps of Robinson and Duncan by sticking around for their whole career.

It's another difficult thing to quantify but I truly think that perception exists.

If you go scorched earth, you'd basically be undoing any goodwill and the Spurs would like like just another franchise.

[baseline bum]

That's a fair take. Although I think there's a difference between a mediocre team that the fans can still connect with and a mediocre team that is the creation of a scorched earth scenario.

I went to lots of games in the 80s, and the fan support (outside of the the bums) was pretty awful the year they won 35 and made the playoffs even with Gilmore and Mitc (but no Ice) still there. I'd see people with bags on their heads in the upper deck that season.

The one thing I can't get passed is the fact that you can always go scorched earth but you can't always try the "gentle transition" approach. Say the Spurs transition to Parker/Splitter/Leonard and it fails ... you'd basically be at the same spot then than if you burn everything to the ground after this season.

I don't think you would. Parker would be untradeable by then and the Spurs would be down a high lottery pick they could have gotten for him.

[The Truth #6]

It's too late to go scorched earth and hope to get something back. That train left years ago. And realistically, they could never trade Duncan because he's the foundation nor Manu because he's the most popular player. That leaves Parker and trading draft picks - which sounds more like rebuilding on the fly then scorched earth start over.

[ChumpDumper]

It's true that Splitter changes the rebuilding equation if he can prove to be a reliable full time starter in the NBA. It will be interesting to see if makes that move alongside Duncan or simply replaces Duncan in the starting lineup.

[Fabbs]

Ah, a thread about the future has turned into a another fapping session for alternative timelines in the past.

Good job, retropsychic time-traveleing spurfan.

True, the Lakers would still be riding an unbroken string of championships with Parker.

Like talking to yourself don't you. A lot.

[ChumpDumper]

Like talking to yourself don't you. A lot.

Both were directed at you.

For the unwarranted attention I gave you, you're welcome.

[ChumpDumper]

It's too late to go scorched earth and hope to get something back. That train left years ago. And realistically, they could never trade Duncan because he's the foundation nor Manu because he's the most popular player. That leaves Parker and trading draft picks - which sounds more like rebuilding on the fly then scorched earth start over.

If you time the contracts right, a team can always be blown up.

[Fabbs]

This is something that I'm starting to believe in. Yeah, it sounds corny. Spurs = Class blah blah. But ... some players seem to buy it. Especially European players looking at the NBA from the outside. Many Euro players who don't even like the NBA would consider playing for the Spurs due to their image of being a first class organization that takes care of its players.

By doing a gentle transition, you keep that image intact and maybe that's enough to sway a free agent or two to sign in San Antonio when everything else is equal. Or in the future, a franchise player on the Spurs could want to follow in the footsteps of Robinson and Duncan by sticking around for their whole career.

It's another difficult thing to quantify but I truly think that perception exists.

If you go scorched earth, you'd basically be undoing any goodwill and the Spurs would like like just another franchise.

Can you give some specific examples?

In addition to Scola for Spanoulis.

[The Truth #6]

Timvp, you've mentioned your support for Bud as the heir apparent. What strengths do you see in him?

I assume he has good basketball knowledge but I don't see him as someone who instantly commands respect of people in the way Pop does. Obviously, Pop earned that through winning. Maybe I'm downgrading Bud because of his former country club mullet, but he seems like a sidekick. One reason the Spurs' System works is because Pop has all the power and commands respect and his word is the final word. And because of that players recognize the pecking order and fall in line (and obviously Duncan helps in that dynamic.) Would that respect still exist with Bud?

[The Truth #6]

If you time the contracts right, a team can always be blown up.

Yes in theory, but how realistic is that? I'm assuming the Spurs don't let any of their Big 3 just walk after a contract ends...or are you implying something else?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I think Bud is a good choice, but how do you guys feel about Sean Elliott? He seems incredibly knowledgeable during the telecasts plus he oftens says what a lot of Spur fans are thinking in regards to Splitter deserving more minutes

I don't know if he's ready to go straight into head coach mode, but at least a spot with the coaching staff in general would be great.

I also wouldn't mind Alvin Gentry down the line.