Utah (34-30) vs Phoenix (33-31)

[Spursfanfromafar]

I personally always liked Gortat... I thought he would've been a great piece to play next to Duncan...

I think the biggest issue with these Suns has been the old guys... Hill missed some games, Nash can only play limited minutes, Redd is halfway done... they put all their chips there and it didn't pay off...

Then there's Lopez not developing into anything, and relying on guys like Telfair...

Other than that, there are some nice pieces there to put around a superstar... Gortat, Shannon Brown, Dudley, Morris, Frye...

Yup. Gortat is really good. And Dudley, Brown, Morris, Frye are role players who could make a contending team very good indeed.

[Robz4000]

On a contending team he'd be one.

Put him on the Spurs, Heat, Mavs, Celtics, or Thunder and he'd be an important starter.

This is now Warrick's 7th season in the NBA and he's given no indication he's ever gonna be better than he is right now. This was his least productive season since his rookie year, so it's great that you think he has potential to be good, but any GM in his right mind wouldn't expect Warrick to suddenly start getting better after 7 years in the NBA.


Once again, Warrick has been in the NBA for 7 years and has yet to become a solid starter, what logical reason do you have for thinking he's gonna suddenly become one after two seasons with the Suns where he was even less productive than in previous years. There's a much higher chance of him regressing even further. I'm pretty sure Hakeem Warrick's mother sees less potential in him than you do.

He has shown flashes, but he's also stuck behind Channing Frye who brings veteran leadership, fits the system pretty well, and is a good player to boot. Warrick may not become a starter, but he has time. Bowen wasn't much of a good player until he came to the Spurs, and look what happened?

Denver will never have a prayer at being a contender the way they currently are. Which pieces can the Suns trade for a player they can rebuild around?

Never said they were, but then again this is about being a playoff team. Also, if Detroit could win that way, no reason Denver can't eventually.

[ElNono]

Yup. Gortat is really good. And Dudley, Brown, Morris, Frye are role players who could make a contending team very good indeed.

FYI, you need a thicker skin down here...

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I personally always liked Gortat... I thought he would've been a great piece to play next to Duncan...

Yeah, and like every other piece next to Duncan, he'd be a role player.

I think the biggest issue with these Suns has been the old guys... Hill missed some games, Nash can only play limited minutes, Redd is halfway done... they put all their chips there and it didn't pay off...

The Suns would still suck if Hill and Nash were healthy and played 40 minutes a game. They didn't legitimately put all their chips in the Nash and Hill pot hoping it would work, they lost all their other chips and it was the only pot they had available to put their chips in. Redd was signed midseason so I'm not sure why you're portraying him as some vital piece the Suns were expecting a lot from.

Other than that, there are some nice pieces there to put around a superstar... Gortat, Shannon Brown, Dudley, Morris, Frye...

Having "nice pieces to put around a superstar" means nothing. Getting pieces to put around a superstar has never been the problem, getting a superstar has been. You could say Tyrus Thomas, Gerald Henderson, Kemba Walker and Bismack Byombo give the Bobcats some "nice pieces to put around a superstar"

[Old Man Kidd]

Now that the garbage cans Lakaluva, Koolaid, Culburn etc have been tamed and the Forum is sane enough for me to post.. there is still some left in folks like you.. Lets see how long you last.

Hey got, make like your name and be a spur fan far from the nba forum, thanks.

[Spursfanfromafar]

FYI, you need a thicker skin down here...

Learning..adapting

[Spursfanfromafar]

hey got, make like your name and be a spur fan far from the nba forum, thanks.

gnmf...

[Old Man Kidd]

^that's telling me? The Re ed Trio may be gone, but I'm not sure why you took that as any sort of a cue that it would be ok to bring your re ed homerism downstairs in their place and think it would be tolerated.

B-b-but Boris Diaw is really good

shut up, .

[Spursfanfromafar]

^that's telling me? The Re ed Trio may be gone, but I'm not sure why you took that as any sort of a cue that it would be ok to bring your re ed homerism downstairs in their place and think it would be tolerated.

B-b-but Boris Diaw is really good

shut up, .

Boris Diaw is really good.

[Old Man Kidd]

Given Spur fan's obsession with fat, undersized powerforwards I'm sure you sincerely believe that statement.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Put him on the Spurs, Heat, Mavs, Celtics, or Thunder and he'd be an important starter.

Calling a role player an "important starter" is basically the same thing as calling a janitor a custodian. You're either a star or you're a role player. Gortat would be a role player.

He has shown flashes, but he's also stuck behind Channing Frye who brings veteran leadership, fits the system pretty well, and is a good player to boot.

I don't even know what to say to this.

Warrick may not become a starter, but he has time. Bowen wasn't much of a good player until he came to the Spurs, and look what happened?

Bowen was 2nd all NBA defense the season before he went to San Antonio, so that, among other reasons, is why comparing Bowen coming to San Antonio with Warrick coming to Phoenix is as asinine as it gets. And no, he doesn't have time. He's had 7 years to show the league something and he hasn't. It's illogical and stupid to think that after 7 years it's gonna change. Warrick just had his worst year since he was a rookie, the way you're raving about his potential makes no sense at all.

Never said they were, but then again this is about being a playoff team. Also, if Detroit could win that way, no reason Denver can't eventually.

Detroit after getting Sheed was a historically great defense. That's another comparison which is wildly asinine and stupid.

The Nuggets have the 3rd highest offensive rating in the league and the 20th highest defensive rating in the league.

The 2004 Pistons had the 18th highest offensive rating in the league and the 2nd highest defensive rating in the league. One team won with great defensive that made it so mediocre offense was enough. The other team wins as an up tempo fast break team that wins by getting in regular season chucking contests. Did you seriously think comparing the two was a legitimate argument?

[Old Man Kidd]

comparing an offensive minded team with below average defense to one of the best defensive teams of all time.

Sup robz, do you also suffer from the downz?

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

comparing an offensive minded team with below average defense to one of the best defensive teams of all time.

Sup robz, do you also suffer from the downz?

The 2012 Nuggets are basically the polar opposite of the 2004 Pistons and GNSF thinks he made some great comparison

[ElNono]

Yeah, and like every other piece next to Duncan, he'd be a role player.

Sure.

The Suns would still suck if Hill and Nash were healthy and played 40 minutes a game. They didn't legitimately put all their chips in the Nash and Hill pot hoping it would work, they lost all their other chips and it was the only pot they had available to put their chips in. Redd was signed midseason so I'm not sure why you're portraying him as some vital piece the Suns were expecting a lot from.

I disagree as far as Nash and Hill goes. Nash just couldn't handle the compressed season, and you could see that in his tired legs the last few games and why Gentry had to basically sit him. When you drop from Nash to Telfair, then you definitely have a big problem. I'm guessing they thought Nash could handle the amount of games, but he looked spent. As far as Redd, it has to do with Hill missing 20 games. He's been Mr reliable the past two seasons and Dudley will only give you so much. Redd was expected to pick up the slack, but he's damaged goods, IMO.

Having "nice pieces to put around a superstar" means nothing. Getting pieces to put around a superstar has never been the problem, getting a superstar has been. You could say Tyrus Thomas, Gerald Henderson, Kemba Walker and Bismack Byombo give the Bobcats some "nice pieces to put around a superstar"

I'm not debating that. I do honestly think the Suns thought they still had a superstar in Nash. Not what I think, but what I suspect they did.
At the end of the day though, they were two wins away from making the playoffs. That's better than even the Rockets, tbh (not going to count Portland due to the injuries).

[Old Man Kidd]

The suns are basically a big ass pile of , why are you guys arguing with one of the best sun fans on the board about this? Sorry, but if you see any talent on that roster you might be re ed. It boggles the mind how they even made it to the 9th seed, its obvious they try harder than other teams during the regular season and has been apparent for a couple of years now. Their sole objective is to sneak in as a 7th/8 seed and sell tickets.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

I disagree as far as Nash and Hill goes. Nash just couldn't handle the compressed season, and you could see that in his tired legs the last few games and why Gentry had to basically sit him. When you drop from Nash to Telfair, then you definitely have a big problem. I'm guessing they thought Nash could handle the amount of games, but he looked spent. As far as Redd, it has to do with Hill missing 20 games. He's been Mr reliable the past two seasons and Dudley will only give you so much. Redd was expected to pick up the slack, but he's damaged goods, IMO.

So lets say hypothetically Hill and Nash handle the compressed season, can play big minutes and don't miss games (which is a dumb hypothetical given their age). The Suns would still be 1st round fodder. You're acting like their season was gonna be remarkably different if Nash and Hill coulda played a few more minutes and not missed as many games.

I'm not debating that. I do honestly think the Suns thought they still had a superstar in Nash. Not what I think, but what I suspect they did. At the end of the day though, they were two wins away from making the playoffs. That's better than even the Rockets, tbh (not going to count Portland due to the injuries).

They were 2 wins away from making the playoffs when more than 50% of the teams make the playoffs. Why do you act like "Almost being one of the 8 best teams in a 15 team conference" is something to thump your chest over? If you can't make the playoffs in the NBA it means there's absolutely no doubt you're a rebuilding team.

[ElNono]

Diaw is an upgrade over stains like Blair or Bonner, IMO... you just need to consider where you're setting the bar here... Lee is at a different level though...

[Old Man Kidd]

my favorite part is where he says frye "fits the system well." yeah he does, all 3's and no D baby PERFECT FIT!

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

When you make statements like this, it's time to pack it up and call it a day.

And at Robz, who's most likely watched the Suns 3 times all season, acting like an expert on all their role players. Even funnier when he's arguing with an actual Suns fan

He's prolly watched the Suns about as much as he's watched the 2012 Nuggets or 2004 Pistons

[ElNono]

So lets say hypothetically Hill and Nash handle the compressed season, can play big minutes and don't miss games (which is a dumb hypothetical given their age). The Suns would still be 1st round fodder. You're acting like their season was gonna be remarkably different if Nash and Hill coulda played a few more minutes and not missed as many games.

They were 2 wins away from making the playoffs when more than 50% of the teams make the playoffs. Why do you act like "Almost being one of the 8 best teams in a 15 team conference" is something to thump your chest over? If you can't make the playoffs in the NBA it means there's absolutely no doubt you're a rebuilding team.

It's a business DoK... more games, more fans excited, more money coming in... you just saw Utah drop the confetti after nailing the 8th seed. Do they know they're not winning ? Sure. Do their fans feel a lot happier that their season isn't over Friday? Sure.

Only 1 team wins the 'ship every year. There's probably only 5 (or less) legitimate contenders every season. Not all the other 25 teams are rebuilding.

[Robz4000]

comparing an offensive minded team with below average defense to one of the best defensive teams of all time.

Sup robz, do you also suffer from the downz?

Hint: I never once compared their style of play, just their team make-up (no superstars).

The 2012 Nuggets are basically the polar opposite of the 2004 Pistons and GNSF thinks he made some great comparison

polar opposite. Tbh at this point you're just looking for excuses to on your team and those around you. I'm done.

[ElNono]

Frye is bench material at best... er played great when he was looking for a contract though...

[Old Man Kidd]

It's a business DoK... more games, more fans excited, more money coming in... you just saw Utah drop the confetti after nailing the 8th seed. Do they know they're not winning ? Sure. Do their fans feel a lot happier that their season isn't over Friday? Sure.

Only 1 team wins the 'ship every year. There's probably only 5 (or less) legitimate contenders every season. Not all the other 25 teams are rebuilding.

There's a difference in being relatively young and mediocre with a ceiling of maybe someday contending, and being barely mediocre with mediocrity as your absolute ceiling built around an aging point guard. the suns system isn't even built to win, their system is built solely to sell tickets. utah's system is ugly, physical grind it out basketball. you're comparing apples to oranges here.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

Hint: I never once compared their style of play, just their team make-up (no superstars).

You said, "If Detroit can win that way, there's no reason Denver can't eventually." If that's not comparing style of play it sure as sounds like it. Otherwise, it's really stupid logic and you might as well say, "If the Pistons can win that way, there's no reason Charlotte can't eventually!"

polar opposite. Tbh at this point you're just looking for excuses to on your team and those around you. I'm done.

you've shat and pissed yourself in this thread more than even R Kelly could dream of pissing and ting on young adult women.

[Old Man Kidd]

Hint: I never once compared their style of play, just their team make-up (no superstars).

polar opposite. Tbh at this point you're just looking for excuses to on your team and those around you. I'm done.

an elite defensive team with one of the greatest defenses of all time can get away without having a superstar on offense, a fun and gun team without a superstar however can't. are you just playing around and being stupid on purpose?