Reply With Quote
How can he be best PF all time and not be top 10?
TD>Bill Russell, and I am sure that Charles has him in top 10.
FWIW, despite appearing "done" - Duncan's posted an equal or better PER than Kobe in 3 of the last 4 years.
Both of their games have slightly regressed, but the big difference is that Kobe has continued to play his minutes and continues to jack up shots to compensate for less efficiency to ac ulate the same counting stats.
Duncan's efficiency remained roughly the same, but saw his counting stats decline due to less minutes from Pop.
Most of Tim's regression is on defense - but Kobe has fallen off on that side of the ball as well (regardless of what All-Defense voters think).
How can he be best PF all time and not be top 10?
TD>Bill Russell, and I am sure that Charles has him in top 10.
I'd be interested to see if he has Shaq in there. You know (in no order) Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Jordan, Magic, Bird are in there. I think Hakeem and Oscar Robertson are probably locks as well. So that's 8 players on a consensus top 10. Who inherits the final two spots?
11 rings trumps any and all debate about whether or not Russell belongs in the top 10. Fair or unfair, that's just the way it is.
Bill Russell was 6'9", in today's NBA, he would be decent, but not top 30.
Wilt dominated Russell head to head. He had 50 rebs against Russell.
Let me provide some neutral insight, because yall some biased ass Tim nut-huggers. Tim is a great player one of the best and humble superstars the game has ever known. Kobe is an arrogant prick but is one of the best all-around players since MJ. Both are great. But who give a crap, both are now TOSB. Lebron may pass them both. But before long Durant will past all 4 INCLUDING MJ. Because he is THAT nice.
It all starts Sunday. You insecure Spur fans and arrogant Laker fans can argue over some dumb like who owned the last decade that argument should of ended two years ago. This is Durant's and Lebron's decade. And we start our Bird vs. Magic 2.0 this June. So yall es need to get out of the way of destiny.
The THUNDER rolls!!!
I get where you're coming from, but when it comes to Russell the 11 rings are all anyone is going to look at. Again, that's just the way it is.
Truth, hurts.
He played with 6 HOFers.
This isn't entirely true. Well to a degree, yes, but Russell destroyed Wilt in crunch time play.
That includes Logo, who had such horrible luck.
How good were they back in the clutch? Russell and his teams were 10-0 in Game 7's.
How many of those 6 only got there because they played with him?
It is impossible to compare players from different eras. Bill Russell won 11 rings, but Boston had most of the talent at the time on their team.
I just think if you had TD on those Boston teams, they still win 11 rings.
Vice versa, the Spurs do not win 4 with Russell.
maybe a couple, but still somebody had to score for those teams and Russell didn't help as much on that end.
Most dominant defensive player ever, best all around player on 11 les puts him in conversation for best ever.
I think a bigger qualifier on his les is that it was a shorter path in his era and the league didn't have near the parity that it has now.
Bill Russell was in an era where power forwards and centers were smaller, and most of the NBA was white. It catered to a lot of era-specific advantages to him.
This.
Bryant would be reserve on an all Lakers team.
He is a small fraction of Lakers success.
Duncan Manu, MJ, Russell, Havlicek, Akeem were a huge/entire part of their teams' success.
They are in an entire differenrt category.
Yes and being black, in general, was a huge advantage in the US.
Bryant is stat machine, Wilt-like.
Three of his rings were from Shaq.
And from Horry.
Kobe is going to start and finish over Jerry West in an all-Lakers lineup.
Fair points by you both. I agree with both of you. My only point to all this is that if you're trying to debate either that Duncan > Russell or that Russell shouldn't be in the top 10 you might as well be talking to a wall because the overwhelming majority of basketball followers are just going to fall back on 11 rings and not listen to anything else.
Kobe is going to start and finish over Jerry West in an all-Lakers lineup.
He is coming off the bench AFTER Nixon and Coop and will be on the bench at the end of close games.
His low basketball IQ was on full display in the Thunders' series, once again.
Put Kobe in Utah and he is winning zero les.
Fringe player.
Yeah, and watch him get abused by his contemporary counterparts
PG Magic; SG Kobe; SF Worthy; PF Kareem; C Shaq ... let's roll with that lineup and see how many teams can beat that. That lineup is going to liquidate the All-Spurs lineup.
Last edited by Venti Quattro; 05-24-2012 at 03:09 PM.
I think Elgin Baylor wipes the floor with Big Game James.Yeah, and watch him get abused by his contemporary counterparts
PG Magic; SG Kobe; SF Worthy; PF Kareem; C Shaq ... let's roll with that lineup and see how many teams can beat that. That lineup is going to liquidate the All-Spurs lineup.
All-Spurs Lineup:
PG Parker, SG Ginobili, SF Iceman, PF Duncan, C Robinson.
I could argue the frontcourt, but you've clearly got us in the backcourt. And with The Logo and late-career Wilt coming off your bench, it's just ridiculous.
I tell you what, though: that would be one of a game to watch.
It would be Parker's ring...his first as the #1 option, which does wonders for his career profile and HoF case post retirement. Not too many PGs can say they were the keystone player to a championship team.
It would be Duncan's first ring as 2nd option, imo.
Yeah, and watch him get abused by his contemporary counterparts
PG Magic; SG Kobe; SF Worthy; PF Kareem; C Shaq ... let's roll with that lineup and see how many teams can beat that. That lineup is going to liquidate the All-Spurs lineup.
maybe, if it's coached by me. Getting Bryant out of the game each and every time he doesn't dump the ball to the big fellas. Or everytime he stares at teammates as if they are .
Solo due idiozie ieri.
Way to go, ventiquattro, to keep up with your nickname on a daily basis.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions
