Austin is a like you. DX just kicked his ass from time to time whenever he did something y.
I thanked God for the Spurs win tonight!! Faith is a personal journey. Some put a great deal of emphasis on the bible and others just try and live by the fundamental principals it stresses. Regardless of where you are with your faith probably not the appropriate place to discuss.
Just a practicing moderator is all
Manu gives up his time and money for children too, and he doesn't believe in god... David is a great human being, and I have a hard time thinking he would stop being such a great human being if he were not religious... I think it's great religion works for Dave... Star Trek works for other people too...
Search the truth and the truth will set you free and if you believe that the teachings of Christ have caused harm to others, that means you haven't read them or you don't understand them.
Understand this - Christianity is unique in this simple fact: Christians are saved by grace alone and this has nothing to do with the human's own merit, worth or self determination. This alone separates Christianity from all other religions because it is not a religion based on one's abitlity or works, but on the power of our creator. Think hard about what that means - it means that I'm no better than anyone else in this world. If you're looking for equality - that's it.
so, if you don't agree/believe, you don't understand? is that it?
Send him a letter and I think he would tell you different. I'm not going to compare Manu's good deeds with the Dave's good deeds. All I know is that Dave says that his good deeds come from his desire to honor God and because of that San Antonio has benefitted.
7 of the top 10 charities in the US are Christian based - take from that what you will, but most of the volunteers I know are Christian and that's because it's a core of what we believe. Doesn't mean other people can't volunteer, but in most cases they don't.
was I unclear? - sorry if I was. I don't understand your question
I've read the teachings of Christ, I just don't believe they come from any god. You need to stop telling me I don't understand them. I gave you a pass on it before, but I'm alot smarter than you think. I've already "thought hard" about it, I don't need you to tell me to do so.
What kind of argument is simply restating the claim of Christianity (which you already know I don't believe) and saying think harder about it?
why don't you believe they come from God? I have no idea of your intelligence, but I can tell you that I'm pretty much a dumb ole' country boy if that helps.
If you thought I was telling you to do something, then I apologize - religion or no religion is a freedom to all Americans and I honestly don't ever want to impose on that right.
Why would he lie?Would a Christian lie?
I have 2000x better things to talk with Manu about than imaginary people. As a matter of fact, when we do get together and chat, religion is the last thing in my mind.
Which matches up with 77% of the US population describing themselves as Christians... some people don't need a god/santa/capt kirk to realize certain things contribute to the well being of society...
http://gatewaypeople.com/sermons/139050
And if you really want to know about how Christianity has affected America, the Declaration of Independence, the Cons ution and the Bill of Rights - watch the above video.
Fair enough. I don't believe the teachings of Christ came from any god, because it's exponentially more likely Jesus was just a man who people wrote exaggerated books about than he was the savior of mankind. How could you know that what's written in the books were actually said by him and are true? One could take it on faith, but if that's one's method, you could believe countless other claims that have nothing to do with Jesus and say you have faith.
that's your choice Nono - wasn't talking about a letter to Manu though (I'm pretty certain Dave would love to talk to you about how God's working in his life though).Why would he lie?
I have 2000x better things to talk with Manu about than imaginary people. As a matter of fact, when we do get together and chat, religion is the last thing in my mind.
Which matches up with 77% of the US population describing themselves as Christians... some people don't need a god/santa/capt kirk to realize certain things contribute to the well being of society...
Where are you gettting 77% of the US population describing themselves as Christians? I thought it was much lower than that - either way I'd hope you would understand that what I'm saying is that saying you're a Christian doesn't make you a better person, but having Christ in you empowers you to understand what selfless love is and helps you to sacrifice your own needs for the good of others. I know that sounds like something from a brochure, but in my almost 40 years of experience, I understand that it is absulutely contrary to our nature. Nono - maybe you know a ton of people that are more than willing to sacrifice their own needs for the good of others, but I don't and I live in Texas - a pretty dang friendly state. I believe that our core need as a sinful man is to satisfy ourselves - I see that every day. Putting the needs of others before our own is pretty uncommon.
Faith is the biggest part of believing in Christ and truly the only way that the Holy Spirit will help you to understand and remember God's word, but it's not like it's a blind faith either. Christ is continually prophesized in the Old Testament (from Dr. Ankerberg's article):
The Bible teaches that Jesus is the prophesied
Messiah predicted centuries in advance in the
Old Testament.
It is one thing to wish to have truth on our side,
and another to wish sincerely to be on the side of
truth.—Richard Whately
The Hebrew Scriptures are unique among those of
the world’s religions in that they contain scores of
prophecies about a predicted future Messiah. These
prophecies extend over a period of 1,000 years and
many are given in specific detail. The final prophecy
was given 400 years before Christ was ever born. In
our book, The Case for Jesus the Messiah, we
discuss a dozen of these prophecies in detail, proving
that only Jesus Christ fulfills them, and therefore, that
only He is the predicted Jewish Messiah22 (cf., John
5:46). For example, in the anguished imagery of King
David’s prayers, Psalm 22 accurately describes a
crucifixion—yet this description is given hundreds of
years before the method of execution by crucifixion
was devised. No other Psalm fits the description of
Christ’s crucifixion better than Psalm 22, explaining
why it is the most frequently quoted Psalm by New
Testament writers. Yet this Psalm was written 1000
years before Jesus was born. Jesus Himself quoted
the first verse of this Psalm while on the cross.
Whatever one thinks of this Psalm, no one can deny
that it describes what happened to Jesus on the cross
an entire millennium later: “…they have pierced my
hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people
stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments
among them and cast lots for my clothing” (Psalm22:16-18; cf. Matthew 27:35).
In Isaiah 9:6-7, the prophecy of the coming Messiah
concerns a child to be born who will also be God and
who will have an everlasting kingdom. In the Gospels,
Jesus claimed that He was that incarnate God and
that He would have an everlasting kingdom (Matthew
16:28; 26:64; Luke 22:30; John 6:38-42, 62; 8:42;
10:30, 36-38; 18:36; cf., 2 Peter 1:11).
In Isaiah 53:4-12, the Messiah is prophesied to be
crushed and pierced for our transgressions; that God
will lay upon Him the iniquity of all mankind. In the
gospels, Jesus also claims to fulfill this prophecy
(Matthew 20:28; cf. 53:12). In fact, Jesus repeatedly
claimed He was the predicted Messiah by continually
claiming He was fulfilling Old Testament prophecies:
“You diligently study the Scriptures because you think
that by them you possess eternal life. These are the
Scriptures that testify about me” (John 5:39; see also
Matthew 26:24, 54, 56; Luke 24:25-27, 44).
In Micah 5:2, the Messiah is said to be eternal, the
ruler over Israel and that He will be born in a very
specific location, Bethlehem Ephrathah. No one
denies that Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem
Ephrathah and none can logically deny that He
claimed He was Israel’s King and the eternal one
(John 5:18; 8:58; Mark 14:60-63).
In Daniel 9:24-27, written 500 years before Christ is
born, the Messiah is prophesied to be killed at the
exact time of Christ’s death.23
In Zechariah 12:10, also written 500 years before
Christ, it is prophesied that Jehovah Himself will be
pierced by the inhabitants of Jerusalem who will
mourn over Him. The Hebrew word means pierced as
with a spear, just as Jesus was pierced during His
crucifixion (John 19:32,35).
If we look at the list of prophecies we discuss in our
book, The Case for Jesus the Messiah, we see that
Jesus Christ fulfilled all of them. Remember, the
following are predictions made hundreds of years
before He was even born:
Genesis 3:15—Jesus defeated Satan but was
wounded during the crucifixion.
Genesis 12, 17, 22—He was the literal descendant
of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in whom all the
world was blessed.
Deuteronomy 18—He was the “prophet like
Moses.”
Psalm 22—He was mocked, insulted and
crucified. His garments were gambled for and His
bones were not broken.
Psalm 110—He was David’s Lord.
Isaiah 53—He was perfectly innocent and
without sin, yet He atoned for the sin of the world.
He was resurrected from the dead.
Jeremiah 23—Because He was God and
“justified many,” His proper name is “Jehovah our
Righteousness.”
Daniel 9—He arrived at the specific time given
by the prophecy, 483 years after Artaxerxes’
decree to rebuild Jerusalem.
Micah 5—He was eternal, yet He was born in
Bethlehem.
Zechariah 9—He was the King of Israel who
brought salvation; He entered Jerusalem riding on
a donkey.
Zechariah 12—He was Jehovah, He was
pierced.
Malachi 3—John the Baptist prepared the way
for Him as He suddenly came to His temple.
Had we space, there are dozens of other prophecies
we could discuss that are just as specific.
(1) He would be born of a virgin (Isa. 7:14; see Mt.
1:23).
(2) He would live in Nazareth of Galilee (Isa. 9:1-2;
see Mt. 2:23; 4:15).
(3) He would occasion the massacre of Bethlehem’s
children (Jer. 31:15; see Mt. 2:18).
(4) His mission would include the Gentiles (Isa. 42:1-
3, 6; see Mt. 12:18-21).
(5) His ministry would include physical relief (Isa.
61:1-2; see Lk. 4:16-21).
(6) He would be the Shepherd struck with the sword,
resulting in the sheep being scattered (Zech. 13:7;
see Mt. 26:31, 56; Mk. 14:27, 49-50).
(7) He would be betrayed by a friend for 30 pieces of
silver (Zech. 11:12-13; see Mt. 27:9-10).
(8) He would be given vinegar and gall to drink (Ps.
69:21; see Mt. 27:34).
(9) He would be hated without a cause (Ps. 69:4; Isa.
49:7; Jn. 7:48; Jn. 15:25).
(10) He would be rejected by the rulers (Ps. 118:22;
Mt. 21:42; Jn. 7:48).
Who is the only Person who has fulfilled all of these
prophecies—and many more?24 Only Jesus Christ.
There is no way to avoid this fact. Scholars Delitzsch
and Gloag have rightly stated:
So far as we can determine, these prophecies
refer to the Messiah only, and cannot be predicated
of another. The ancient Jews admit the
Messianic character of most of them; although
the modern Jews, in consequence of their controversy
with the Christians, have attempted to
explain them away by applications which must
appear to every candid reader to be unnatural...
these and other predictions have received their
accomplishment in Jesus of Nazareth,... thecombination of prophecies is sufficient to prove
that Jesus is the Messiah;...25
In fact, as we show in our book, the calculations of
mathematical probability reveal these prophecies
could only have been fulfilled in the manner they were
through the power and omniscience of a sovereign
God. The odds of any one man fulfilling just 48 of
them are 1 in 10157—infinitely beyond the limits of
probability.26
Remember, in John 4:25-26 and Mark 14:61-64,
Jesus Himself clearly claimed He was the prophesied
Messiah. In order to disprove this claim, one only
needs to find a single prophecy (out of scores in the
Old Testament) that proves Jesus was wrong. Because
no one has yet done this and because Jesus
filled all of the prophecies relating to His incarnation,
and because He resurrected from the dead, no one
can logically deny that He was and is the prophesied
Jewish Messiah.
underdawg I understand your argument, it's just unfit for me because it's too circular.
You believe in Christ because you have faith. The Holy Spirit helps you have faith. It assumes you believe in a Holy Spirit.
Jesus is God because He is foretold in the Old Testament. The Old Testament tells you about God. You have to already assume the Old Testament is going to tell you religious truth.
What kind of Christ dies for the world, then disappears for two millenia of human and natural suffering, leaving no evidence that doesn't require faith? What is he doing? Watching babies born hungry and then die? Watching earthquakes swallow up thousands of people? Why would you believe in a god who is so clearly not GOOD?
Last edited by ATX Spur; 05-28-2012 at 03:08 AM.
Christ's evidence is in his followers (as imperfect as we are) - we are his testimony unto his creation. Life is tough and there are many unanswered questions, but Christ is good and although you see hunger and catostrophe, there is healing and joy in many Christians throughout the world, regardless of our state or cir stance and that includes all of the poor, hungry, and stricken people. Christ has never disappeared or turned his back on those in need - that said, there are plenty that suffer and every man is given unto death, but to say that we can judge our creator is not only bold but ignorant (obviously this is always the case) of the truth.
Christianity is the largest and most popular religion in the United States, with around 77% of those polled identifying themselves as Christian, as of 2009.[1][2][3] This is down from 86% in 1990, and slightly lower than 78.6% in 2001.[4]
Christ's evidence is in his followers? So because a large group of people believe something it's true?
Christ is good although you see hunger and catastrophe? So he's good, but he's not powerful enough to stop it? Or he can stop it, he just doesn't want to becuase "life is tough"?
Christ has never turned his back on those in need? So no suffering person has ever not been given relief even if they prayed for it?
"We don't question our creator because that would be 'bold and ignorant'" assumes that he exists in the first place.
Sorry, these are some of the least satisfying answers about religion I've heard in a while.
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