Analysis of officiating, game 5

[TJastal]

Blair stuck his ass out. Obvious foul, and they'll call that on everyone in the league every day of the week. Jackson's strip was both hands across the arm, and even showed such on replay. In fact it was so obvious I'm now wondering if we're thinking about two different plays.

Uh.. well...if that's a foul on Blair they should also call OKC every time they set a moving screen (I saw 1 already by Collision), and also they should call Ibaka every time he thrusts his knee/leg out 5 feet from his body either tripping or causing the defender to have to go take the scenic route around. Dwight Howard does the same bull constantly. Of course Ian Mahinmi used to do the very same thing and he'd be called for a foul instantly every time.

As far as Jackson's play I watched the slow-mo several times on it but perhaps I missed something. I will re-watch it again and see if I missed anything. I don't remember Jackson using two hands, it was a single slap at the ball (and clean!) from behind that I recall.

[TJastal]

I don't give a about the fouls. Do I get pissed when refs make bad calls? Yeah. I actually hate the NBA officiating more than any other sport; it's ing pathetic. But ty calls go both ways. They can influence which team wins or loses on any given night, but there's nothing that can be done about it.

The key is for the PLAYERS to not allow themselves to be in a position where a few garbage calls can decide the game.

I'm not mad at the refs. (Actually I ing hate the refs, but I don't blame them for our losses). I'm mad at the Spurs. Aside from one or two players for each of our losses, our team is playing like absolute trash. No hustle. No passion. They're hanging their heads and letting the Thunder get to them on a psychological level.

Tomorrow is time for all chips on the table. Either the Spurs pull their heads out of their asses and show they still have what it takes, or they collapse like a house of cards and show that they're now MENTALLY weak. (I don't believe it's because we're "old", that's bull ). It's time for our supposed superstars to get their together. We can't just have Ginobili solo the Thunder, nor can our stars lean on a rookie and a handful of roleplayers to win it for them. It needs to be the TEAM playing good enough to beat a team as good as the Thunder.

We know we are capable of playing better than we are, it just comes down to the Spurs' mentality and desire to win this series. I said it before in another thread, if we play like we were playing during the 20 game win streak, and the Thunder still beat us, well I won't even be mad. The changing of the guard will be in full effect. But if we play hanging our heads when we don't get calls, and ing at refs, and with 2/3 "superstars" MIA and roleplayers that were hitting ~60% or some , all of a sudden shooting 15%, then I'll be pissed.

Sick of seeing no one diving for loose balls tbh...this is the ing WCF ffs.

I totally agree with the "spurs need to play better" part.. I wouldn't blame the officials entirely for the game 5 loss. The turnovers, the lackadaisical play, the bad subs utions and lineups we're all likely bigger culprits in the loss. But that's not what this thread is about. this thread is for purely analyzing the calls which appear to be favoring OKC at the moment (after 1 quarter of analysis). And I know from reading other threads there's gonna be more of the same coming in quarters 2,3, & 4.

[Cow Eye]

Half of this thread should probably be goaltending on Ibaka then.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Doesn't matter how big his ass is, Blair stuck it out to impede the progress of a defender, which is an obvious foul, and they'll call that on everyone in the league every day of the week.

Jackson's strip was both hands across the arm, and even showed such on replay. In fact it was so obvious I'm now wondering if we're thinking about two different plays.

Actually no they do not. At least not with consistency. I have just accepted that the hip check is acceptable in the 2012 NBA. I agree that it SHOULD be a foul but not according to how the game has been called all year.

[Obstructed_View]

Actually no they do not. At least not with consistency. I have just accepted that the hip check is acceptable in the 2012 NBA. I agree that it SHOULD be a foul but not according to how the game has been called all year.

If that were a hip check I'd probably agree with you. It wasn't. I understand that guys get away with pushing on picks, and it was supposed to be a point of emphasis, as was an offensive player jumping into a defender and running under a player in the air to draw a charge. There's only one word to describe Blair's pick, however, and that word is "blatant". Have a problem with the other picks? Fine, but let's not act like Blair's wasn't the most obvious of the game.

[thunderfan]

Uh.. well...if that's a foul on Blair they should also call OKC every time they set a moving screen (I saw 1 already by Collision), and also they should call Ibaka every time he thrusts his knee/leg out 5 feet from his body either tripping or causing the defender to have to go take the scenic route around. Dwight Howard does the same bull constantly. Of course Ian Mahinmi used to do the very same thing and he'd be called for a foul instantly every time.

As far as Jackson's play I watched the slow-mo several times on it but perhaps I missed something. I will re-watch it again and see if I missed anything. I don't remember Jackson using two hands, it was a single slap at the ball (and clean!) from behind that I recall.

Let's exaggerate a little more. Ibaka thrusts his leg out 5 feet and trips guys with a no call? Give me a break. I'm also curious how many people here have actually been within feet of the action of an NBA game. The speed at which the game is played is much more drastic when you're on the court than it is up there in section 211 or from your couch. Most people can't appreciate this or appreciate the fact that NBA basketball is THE most difficult sport in the world to officiate. It's nice that you all have your slow motion replay in HD to make all these accurate assessments (and even with slow motion, some people still have the blinders on), but the refs don't quite have that luxury.

[Keepin' it real]

Hands down, this was the worst play by the refs last night:

Right before Tim passed the ball, the ref was standing inbounds, instead of behind the sideline. As Manu ran to get the pass from Tim, he actually stepped on the ref's foot and rolled his ankle!

I had no idea, even after seeing the replay many times. First Take aired a replay showing what happened. Can you imagine if Manu would have suffered a serious ankle injury on that? Wow. Heck, maybe it's a little swollen for tonight.

[polandprzem]

Hands down, this was the worst play by the refs last night:

Right before Tim passed the ball, the ref was standing inbounds, instead of behind the sideline. As Manu ran to get the pass from Tim, he actually stepped on the ref's foot and rolled his ankle!

I had no idea, even after seeing the replay many times. First Take aired a replay showing what happened. Can you imagine if Manu would have suffered a serious ankle injury on that? Wow. Heck, maybe it's a little swollen for tonight.

Yea I wanted to point that out. How come Foster was on the floor for the most important play?

[Phenomanul]

I would add this...

Manu's ticky-tack foul on Harden's three (for an eventual four point play) was out of frustration given that that he felt he had been blatantly fouled on his layup attempt in the previous possession for a non-call...

That 4pt play was a game changer given that it dug the Spurs' deficit deeper... one they simply could not overcome at the end...

[pad300]

Most people can't appreciate this or appreciate the fact that NBA basketball is THE most difficult sport in the world to officiate. It's nice that you all have your slow motion replay in HD to make all these accurate assessments (and even with slow motion, some people still have the blinders on), but the refs don't quite have that luxury.

Bull . The soccer refs have it WAY worse. (Although I'll admit their results can be just as bad). Bigger field & longer games - refs have to run much harder (refs get tired too) and make calls from farther away from the play. More players (11 on 11) to keep track of, including off the ball interactions. More difficult judgment calls, given the specific existence of an advantage rule. More heavily weighted calls, due to the consequences of calls (penalty shots & red cards are much more important than nearly anything given as a consequence in basketball).

[Keepin' it real]

Most people can't appreciate this or appreciate the fact that NBA basketball is THE most difficult sport in the world to officiate. It's nice that you all have your slow motion replay in HD to make all these accurate assessments (and even with slow motion, some people still have the blinders on), but the refs don't quite have that luxury.

I spent a decade officiating high school football and basketball. I can attest to the fact that basketball is a lot more difficult to officiate. Because of my experience, I appreciate the challenging job the officials have, so I'm not one of those crybaby saps who blames the refs all the time.

But as a fan, I can understand the frustration when all the calls seem to be -- or actually are -- going against your team. The 2006 series against the Mavs and also the early 2000s Kings vs. Lakers series come to mind.

That's why I have to remind myself, the NBA is not at all like high school or even college basketball. In the NBA, the league has its favorite teams, and the league wants those teams to win, so there's always su ion that the officials will call the game a certain way to produce the desired outcome. Unfortunately, there's no way to prove or disprove this su ion.

[Horse]

Hmm… I think this breakdown is missing a few fouls.


Serge Ibaka personal foul (Manu Ginobili draws the foul)
No mention on this one. And wow! Two early fouls on Ibaka! Were these of “questionable” status? As having Ibaka out early might be detrimental to the Thunder.
Thabo Sefolosha shooting foul (Manu Ginobili draws the foul)
No comment on this foul either TJastal.
Russell Westbrook offensive charge (DeJuan Blair draws the foul)
Another no comment.

You'd think if you wanted a gamelog that was impartial, you'd also look at the fouls that OKC committed and comment on whether those were fair calls or not.

You better pray the refs continue to us, cause the Spurs will wipe the floor with boston. Although okc would too.

[Horse]

I would add this...

Manu's ticky-tack foul on Harden's three (for an eventual four point play) was out of frustration given that that he felt he had been blatantly fouled on his layup attempt in the previous possession for a non-call...

That 4pt play was a game changer given that it dug the Spurs' deficit deeper... one they simply could not overcome at the end...

Let's not forget that played developed off of the missed goaltend call.

[thunderfan]

Bull . The soccer refs have it WAY worse. (Although I'll admit their results can be just as bad). Bigger field & longer games - refs have to run much harder (refs get tired too) and make calls from farther away from the play. More players (11 on 11) to keep track of, including off the ball interactions. More difficult judgment calls, given the specific existence of an advantage rule. More heavily weighted calls, due to the consequences of calls (penalty shots & red cards are much more important than nearly anything given as a consequence in basketball).

Don't know a lot about soccer. I can see where the physical aspect is much harder with a field that size. On the other hand, basketball would seem more difficult in some aspects because the action is so much more compressed into a much smaller field of play, so you've got 10 players sandwiched together, moving constantly, moving fast, hands everywhere, etc, etc.

[LnGrrrR]

You better pray the refs continue to us, cause the Spurs will wipe the floor with boston. Although okc would too.

So why should I pray then?

[chreph]

The one thing I find odd about the last few games (besides the blantant favortism of OKC by Steve Kerr and Reggie Miller) is the lack of replays by TNT. If the spurs aren't set while taking a charge or commit an obvious foul swiping at the ball, we see a replay. Otherwise, nothing. Blocks/Goaltends, blocks at the end of the quarter, etc. Even on the spurs last shot attempt (manu three), they never showed the replay on the broadcast or talked about Manu stepping on the official's foot.

Whether you "blame" the officials or not, I think everyone is in agreement regarding the fact that there has been a TON of bad calls in this series and we only get replays of the "fouls" or non-calls maybe 5% of the time when it makes the refs seem pro-Spurs. That's what makes much of this hard to swallow. Yes, yes... the Spurs still had their chances and they got maybe 2 or 3 breaks per game for the 10 breaks that didn't go their way, but that doesn't change the fact that we're playing the game with a handicap. Even with all the breaks that didn't go our way, we still had a chance at the end so, one would have to assume that our chance of winning the game would have been even better if we were given a fair shake. If that doesn't infuriate you, you're trying too hard to look cool on a forum for whatever reason.

[chreph]

On second thought, the only times I have felt we didn't get a fair shake from the officiating (agenda-wise, not human error from the officials) have been this series and the 2006 mavs series. On the other hand, I thought we benefited from the whistles/non-whistles in the 2007 Suns series and maybe a bit in the 2005 Suns series... I guess these things do even out

[FromWayDowntown]

I think that most of the calls in this series have been at least defensible, which is really about all that you can reasonably expect. Have the officials missed some calls? Absolutely? Have both teams suffered the adverse consequences of botched calls or bad non-calls? Sure.

I don't believe that there's some broad conspiracy to ensure that OKC gets into the Finals or to keep the Spurs out of the Finals. I don't believe that the officials are directed or nudged to call games in particular ways. And I don't think the officials choose to affect the outcome of games by the calls that they make or don't make. I think, like all of us, the officials are imperfect and human; expecting that they'll get every call correct is unreasonable. As we all do, sometimes they believe they see something in a particular way, even if that is not objectively correct. For the speed of the game, the size of the players, and the extent of the stakes, I think they're right a remarkable percentage of the time.

Whatever you think of the officiating in Game 5 (or in Game 4 or in Game 2 or in Game 1) the truth is that the losing team in each game has had it's opportunities to make the necessary plays to change the result and simply didn't.

Ultimately, officials don't make jump shots go in and they don't compel players to make stupid mistakes.

I think both teams can attribute their losses in this series to things that were entirely within their control and I think both teams can chalk up their wins to taking care of those things that they could control.

[TJastal]

2nd quarter

So here we go and right away @ the 11:15 mark we have James Hardon trying to drive the ball straight down the lane and down Leonard's throat, and it appears he stumbles and takes about 4-5 baby steps in succession (if Leonard hadn't been in front of him to break his momentum his chin hair would have been mopping the court). After his travelling exhibition (which isn't called of course) Hardon manages to heave the ball up over his shoulder at the backboard and attempts to clear Leonard out with a push in the back to get his own rebound. Fortunately the ball caroms over his head and is secured by Splitter. Of course, no call is made on the push, either.

LMAO @ the next call.. clean steal by Ginobili who steps in front of the pass and is called for a phantom "hold" on Sefalosha. Frame by frame shows Sefalosha was the one actually doing the holding and Ginobili was the one trying to pull his wrist away. Just a terrible ing call by Scott Foster. I'm not sure I've ever seen an official duped so easily before. This horrid call likely negates a fast break layup by Manu. Big momentum changer.

After Sefalosha misses a 3 Westbrook gets a little chippy on the rebound, nearly putting Leonard in a half nelson trying to rip the ball away. Apparently mugging is now legal in the nba.

After Ibaka switches onto Ginobili, Manu attacks the rim draws contact with Ibaka and no call is made. Reggie Miller even commented how lucky he was not to pick up #3. And yet even in this thread we have lame thunder and laker fans ing how unfair the refs were to Ibaka in the 1st quarter.

On the next play (and for those of you with DVR) watch the 9:23 mark. You will see Ibaka come out high to set a pick on Leonard and fully extend one leg about as far as he can possibly extend it forcing Leonard to go all the way around it. Result is Harden gets an easy clean jumper which he drains. If Blair cannot use his rear end then Ibaka shouldn't be able to use his ing giraffe legs.. this should also be considered an illegal pick, IMHO.

I'll throw this one in even though it was correctly called (by Mike Callahan) as I'm sure some yokel like LnggggR will point it out and if I don't....
Splitter makes a nice feed to a cutting Ginobili down the paint and Sefalosha rakes him across the arm on the shot. Then has the nerve to cry and moan about the call. Crooked ref Scott Foster apparently feels the need to come console the grieving Sefalosha and even hold him by the arm.:puke This shows just how spoiled privildged s these thunder players have become that they need condolences from the refs for even making the correct calls against them.. it's almost like they think the rules should not even apply to them anymore. And Stern actually thinks this is the model franchise/players of the next generation?

7:22 mark here we go again with the illegal picks. Ibaka once again extending his giraffe leg & knee out 3-4 feet and this time doesn't even bother holding his position, he actually takes a few extra steps into the defender which is Stephen Jackson this time. So here not only is he once again extending his leg/knee into a defender he is now moving as well. Of course this clears out Jackson almost completely, forcing a rotation that ends up with Cook getting a very clean look at a 3.

Westbrook drives to the hoop, and Splitter rotates into postion to take the charge, but no call is made.
Seems par for the course in this game.

Next possession it appears Hardon gets fouled by a late rotating Splitter who is not only late, but his feet may have been on the circle. No call made but the rotation leaves Ibaka unfettered to collect the rebound and he goes straight up but misses the dunk. However, refs bail him out with a call (makeup call for the one missed on Hardon?). NOBODY even breathes on Ibaka on this put back. Just another example of how priviledged this thunder team is regarded by the officials IMHO.

Ibaka's block on Duncan right next to the hoop looked to me like goal tending, it was close enough that it should have been called. The ball left Duncan's hand no more than 2 feet away from the basket and was released at practically rim level so it was almost immediately on a downward trajectory. Very questionable (no-call) for sure.

Next possession Leonard gets called for a cheap foul on Durant (by Scott Foster of course). Was denying the passing lane with his arm straight up. I have no idea how Scott Foster saw a foul here.

Same possession another moving pick by Ibaka (combined with the extended leg).

Parker actually gets a home cooked call for a change @ the 4:33 mark. On fast break he drives recklessly to the hoop, Hardon is backing up arms extended and Parker runs into him and trips over Harden's feet, just throwing the ball toward Leonard in the corner. Hardon actually ends up in the 1st row. Bad call by the officials. Should have even been considered an offensive foul even on Parker. Maybe Callahan was trying to even out the calls here.

2:19 mark Harden has his hands all over Ginobili out on the perimeter, it's just blatant and right in front of an official (Tom Washington). I mean, like he's standing with a bird's eye view. Causes Ginobili to lose the ball disrupts the timing and ends in a turnover trying to pass the ball to Duncan on the high post. Last time I checked hand checking was illegal out on the perimeter. Apparently not anymore. Ends up in a fast break layup And-1 for Hardon.

Officials finally are forced to call a foul on Harden on the next possession as he is basically mugging Manu at every turn, bodying & holding him from going to the inbound passer. This is only natural that Harden must feel like he can do anything at this point after prior non-whistles. Steve Kerr points out it should have been 2 free throws for Ginobili since the ball hadn't yet been inbounded. So the foul was called only to maintain appearances apparently.

@ the 1:05 mark I just wanted to point out the way a proper legalscreen should be set. Kendrick Perkins moves into position with both feet set and holds his position. His leg isn't extending out practically doing the splits. I mention this for those who can't quite seem to grasp the concept of what a legal pick/screen should be. Harden misses the floater and is called for a phantom foul by Scott Foster (feeling a little guilty perhaps, Scott?)

On the final play before the half, Perkins ruins his short lived pristine reputation (as a screen setter) by pushing Duncan in the back while Duncan was heading out to the high post to set a screen for Parker. An off-balance Duncan nearly runs over Parker's defender (trying not to commmit a foul) and Parker scoots past and appears to lose the ball but his momentum forces contact into Perkins. Normally I would call this a questionable call at best, but it really evens out when you consider Perkins got away with a push in Duncan's back.

[wildbill2u]

Refs jobs are tough. I am not one that fancies blaming officials but I found myself frustrated at the officiating and constant momentum killing calls namely when ginobilli drove and went for the tie or to cut the deficit to two and ibaka gets away with yet another goaltend. If we were in okc I'd understand but not at home.

The announcing team said that Ibaka had at least 3 goaltends during this series which haven't been called and that they were blatant because he pinned the ball against the backboard. Hard for all 3 refs not to see that.

Also you can chalk up some of the TOs to hard fouls, hacking on the arms when Many or Parker drive the lane.

As far as the number of fouls being equal, these are fouls and no-calls that impact the score/momentum, while there are fouls that merely give the team the ball on the side with 14 seconds.

My final comment is that the league is ready to see their NEW young stars rise to the top while the Spurs are old news. I'm not sure the refs have to be explicitly told to get on the team.

All that being said, the Spurs have to take it away from the refs and the Thunder.

[thunderfan]

Pinning the ball against the backboard is not necessarily a goaltend.

[thispego]

2nd quarter
LMAO @ the next call.. clean steal by Ginobili who steps in front of the pass and is called for a phantom "hold" on Sefalosha. Frame by frame shows Sefalosha was the one actually doing the holding and Ginobili was the one trying to pull his wrist away. Just a terrible ing call by Scott Foster. I'm not sure I've ever seen an official duped so easily before. This horrid call likely negates a fast break layup by Manu. Big momentum changer.

this is one of the big ones i was referring to in my original refs thread. things get bad in 3rd and 4th quarter. specifically when the spurs go on their run to start the 2nd half. refs single handedly stop the spurs momentum and give it right back to thunder.