First pics of The Dark Knight Rises set (2 day shoot in India with Bale and Pence)

[da_suns_fan]

I didnt think Keaton was a great Batman, but he was decent. He at least established a character.

Intelligent: Keaton's batman cracked the Joker's "Death by makeup" code. He also uncovers that Max Shrek (Christopher Walken) was lying about the need for more energy for Gotham.

Obsessive: He struggles to have a relationship with Kim Basinger because he cant stop being who he is. In the second flim, he obsessed over the Penguin while the penguin pretended to be a poor orphan trying to find his parents. Alfred calls him out on it and Batman dismisses his criticism.

Frightening: In the opening scene of Batman, one thug is dangled over a roof-top and then allowed to let go. Batman scares the out of him and then tells him to "Tell all your friends about me". He likes to haunt his enemies they way they haunt him. This is WHY he wears the gothic costume.

Clever: Batman uses the Penguins audio against him in the Penguins big speech: I played this city like a harp from !!

Now...how did Bale/Nolan convey those same characteristics?

Again, I ask you to answer the question above using the examples i provided as a template.

When does Bale obsess? When is he clever? When is he intelligent? When is he frightening?

[da_suns_fan]

More Keaton/Batman character exmples:

Clever: Alters the little penguins with attached rockets homing frequency to lure them back to the Penguins lair.

Frightening: Drops Jack Nicholson into a vat of chemicals to teach criminals a lesson.

Obsessive: Catwoman turns down his offer to basically run away with him because she points out that they cant stop being who they are.

Those films had their own flaws, but one them was NOT establishing strong characters.

Bale's Batman is not a strong character. Sorry, you cant convince me because ive seen the films. Again, Nolan's films focus more on story than characters. His Batman is nothing more than a rich guy in a suit.

[redzero]

1) Failed to give me any character trait of Nolans batman. In fact, you asked me to give what batman is SUPPOSE to be since you had no idea from watching the first two films.]

Congratulations on being able to say that Batman is intelligent and driven. Real insightful.

I asked you to describe Batman's character because you were the one who acted like an authority on the matter. Every adjective you used could be applied to Nolan's Batman. Every single one.

2) Dismissed every "accepted character trait" of Batman. He's not allowed to be batman because hes "a rookie batman". I reject that narrative. I think its just bad writing.

Yes, that's bad writing. Even though Bruce's mentor taught him that criminals are simple in Batman Begins, it would be bad writing for him to still hold that belief in The Dark Knight.

An example of good writing would be Bruce dropping what he learned and instantly knowing what to when dealing with the Joker without having any experience in the matter. Why should he need advice from an experienced old man? He's been on the job for six whole months! He should know how to deal with everything by now!

You should be a writer for the next Batman. You clearly know about what makes a compelling story.

[redzero]

Again, I ask you to answer the question above using the examples i provided as a template.

When does Bale obsess? When is he clever? When is he intelligent? When is he frightening?

I already did provide examples. Stop ignoring my posts.

[da_suns_fan]

Why should he need advice from an experienced old man? He's been on the job for six whole months! He should know how to deal with everything by now!

You should be a writer for the next Batman. You clearly know about what makes a compelling story.

Alfred isnt suppose to be "experienced" with fighting crime. Most butlers arent. Instead of being a faithful servant, Nolan wanted Alfred to be more intellectual.

Thats fine, but no need to make Batman clueless. It would have been much more true to the characters to have Batman uncover the mysteries of the joker since Batman is suppose to be kind of "messed up" as well.

btw - To say that "criminals are simple" goes against EVERYTHING that makes the Batman story unique!! Dont believe me?

Quick: Name three Superman villains. Or Spiderman villains.

Now name six batman villains.

Batman KNOWS that criminals are not simple, thats why he ing obsesses over them!

[da_suns_fan]

I already did provide examples. Stop ignoring my posts.

Nonsense. Youre example of "Obsessive" was

"First Bruce-Alfred scene in The Dark Knight."

You'll have to be a little more descriptive.

[redzero]

For the millionth time, it was a learning process. He just started being Batman. Ignoring that huge fact doesn't make it go away. Nolan's Batman faced Scarecrow, the League of Shadows, and mobsters before meeting the Joker.

You want Batman to know how to deal with super villains without any experience with them. That is bad writing. There is no development at all. There is no suspense.

[da_suns_fan]

I think Ive beat this dead horse to death.

Ive used several examples from the first two burton films to show the characteristics/personality of "Batman". This was done so well Fox used a carbon copy of the character for their 90s cartoon.

I dont even consider Bale's character "Batman". His characteristic dont exist. Hes just a rich dude in a suit fighting crime who would rather just QUIT if he could. Sorry, but I was thoroughly unimpressed with your defense. About as unimpressed with Nolan's movies.

[redzero]

Nonsense. Youre example of "Obsessive" was

"First Bruce-Alfred scene in The Dark Knight."

You'll have to be a little more descriptive.

The "know your limits" scene where Bruce's shirt is off and all of his bruises are shown. He also was sewing his own wounds, which takes some dedication.

[redzero]

Sorry that Batman in Nolan's movies isn't perfect at everything. Sorry that he had to learn.

Nothing is more compelling than somebody who is great at everything and doesn't make mistakes.

[da_suns_fan]

For the millionth time, it was a learning process. He just started being Batman. Ignoring that huge fact doesn't make it go away. Nolan's Batman faced Scarecrow, the League of Shadows, and mobsters before meeting the Joker.

You want Batman to know how to deal with super villains without any experience with them. That is bad writing. There is no development at all. There is no suspense.

Thats what you dont get. He didnt learn except to ask his ing butler!!! Hes SUPPOSE to obsess and come to the conclusion on his own.

Nolan doesnt want to waste time developing characters so he has Wayne just ask Alfred.

Bad. Writing.

[da_suns_fan]

The "know your limits" scene where Bruce's shirt is off and all of his bruises are shown. He also was sewing his own wounds, which takes some dedication.

That scene was meant to convey that Bruce is getting beat up and one of the reasons as to why Bruce wants to QUIT BEING BATMAN!

Thats not an example of "obsessiveness." Its meant to gain audience sympathy for why Bruce wants to quit.

[redzero]

Thats what you dont get. He didnt learn except to ask his ing butler!!! Hes SUPPOSE to obsess and come to the conclusion on his own.

Nolan doesnt want to waste time developing characters so he has Wayne
just ask Alfred..

Bad. Writing.

Batman gets help from others all the time. And it's not like this version ran straight to Alfred and asked him what to do.

Wanting a boring, perfect Batman.

[da_suns_fan]

Batman gets help from others all the time. And it's not like this version ran straight to Alfred and asked him what to do.

Wanting a boring, perfect Batman.

No..wanting a clever, obsessive, mysterious batman.

[redzero]

That scene was meant to convey that Bruce is getting beat up and one of the reasons as to why Bruce wants to QUIT BEING BATMAN!

Thats not an example of "obsessiveness." Its meant to gain audience sympathy for why Bruce wants to quit.

How is that an either or situation? The scene shows how Bruce's OBSESSIVE crime fighting was taking a toll on his body. To claim otherwise would be to lie.

[redzero]

No..wanting a clever, obsessive, mysterious batman.

being perfect at everything = mysterious somehow

[da_suns_fan]

How is that an either or situation? The scene shows how Bruce's OBSESSIVE crime fighting was taking a toll on his body. To claim otherwise would be to lie.

You could make a case that this is an example of Batman being "driven". But not "obsessive".

If he was obsessive, he wouldnt be trying to quit. In fact, thats just the opposite.

[redzero]

No, one cannot make a case for that. He wanted to quit AND he had and obsessive drive to rid Gotham of crime.

Try again.

[da_suns_fan]

being perfect at everything = mysterious somehow

Keaton's batman is extremely mysterious. Theres several times (especially with scenes with the Joker and Catwoman) in which youre not sure what his character is going to do or handle a situation. He kills the joker, spares max shrek, semi-kills the penguin, asks cat-woman to run away with him etc.

Likewise, theres additional mystery surrounding the back story of his character because everything from his car to how many cowls he buys isnt explained to death like in Nolan's films.

Maybe thats because Nolan wanted a true "origin" story but whatever.

[redzero]

Yeah, consistency is lame. Batman should behave erra--I mean, mysteriously.

[CubanSucks]

Maybe thats because Nolan wanted a true "origin" story but whatever.

DING DING DING!!!! Ever wonder why the first movie is Batman Begins? It took you this many posts to realize this? You've probably typed the words Burton and Keaton about 100 times before finally realizing these are supposed to be different movies. You're ing your pants WAAAAY too much over mystery

[monosylab1k]

After all this time DSF still enjoys becoming a forum rag. It's good to know some things never change

[da_suns_fan]

After all this time DSF still enjoys becoming a forum rag. It's good to know some things never change

Youre such a tool.

[stretch]

Has that mother er DSF learned how to capitalize his O's?

[monosylab1k]

Youre such a tool.

And you just got on by CubanSucks in this thread. Do you realize just what an obtuse little cheese you have to be for CubanSucks to dominate you on an intellectual level? lol arizona state educated moron.