Stern is gone...

[SpursNextRomanEmpire]

Best commissioner in the history of north american professional sports, despite what the fans feel about him.

Agreed. I don't understand the hate for him.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The growth, globalization and overall quality and popularity of the sport.

So you like that people in China and South America like NBA basketball and they make the owners money. Great.

What specifically about the quality of the sport? I hope you are not talking about from a technical standpoint. The NBA no longer has it's developmen.... err the NCAA there to train their new players. As such the incoming rookies have lesser skillsets as opposed to those from before. You just like the promotional stuff? You think that he has kept the integrity of the game high?

I take it you didn't like the physical basketball from before?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Best commissioner in the history of north american professional sports, despite what the fans feel about him.

No sense of history I see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Rozelle

Read and learn.

[Obstructed_View]

The Pete Rozelle of basketball. He'll never get the credit he deserves for what he contributed.

[racm]

He's better than the clowns in the other league, but that's saying just how venal pro sports have become in America tbh

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Pete Rozelle of basketball. He'll never get the credit he deserves for what he contributed.

Credit for what? Making certain owners and players rich?

Rozelle was great for the vision he showed in negotiating and getting not only with ownership but also the feds the ability to do TV rights such as the NFL does. He made it such that NFL owners can both make money and be compe ive as any other team because of that. And its not like the Modell's Mara's and Shramms of the world were the most giving souls on the planet. Rozelle brokered that.

Stern has perpetuated a rich poor gap in the NBA. Small market teams like the Spurs have to make a choice: profit or compete. I love Holt because he chooses the latter but what about teams like the Clippers that have chosen the former for the past 30 years? You have teams failing and/or moving cities because of this climate.

And personally I find the integrity of the game to be . Stern promotes stars. The 400 lbs gorilla in the room is the leagues policy of 'star treatment' for the refs. It's how you tell whether or not a player has come into his own in the league as soon as the refs start giving them favorable calls. You see some stars take advantage of it to a new dimension. Guys like Wade, Paul and our very own Ginobilli come to mind. You don't see this in other leagues or at least not ins utionalized like it is in the NBA.

What gets me is how people accept star treatment as a given and then scoff at the notion that they would fix other things. We've all seen the bull in the Laker's favors but other teams have a legitimate gripe about us. Call me tin hat man but when refs swallow their whistles during our championship runs time and again it has to make you wonder if it had anything to do with their promotion of international stars and guys like Manu and Parker on the team. Yay Sean Marks!

I have no proof and that is straight conjecture obvious but that and a whole lot of other along with NBA officiating stinks like a tanning pit. That's Stern's legacy.

Oh but he made Buss, Reinsdorf lots of money and hyped Yao Ming woo ing hoo.

[Vic Petro]

Two out of two times, Stern emerged from his secret room and announced the Spurs had the first pick.

[Juggity]

Where do you think the officiating policy of 'star treatment' comes from? Or do you deny that 'stars' of teams get favorable calls?

Honestly, the reason stars are stars is because they are good at drawing fouls and selling them.

[Sean Cagney]

Spurs fans are the most ungrateful, self-righteous bunch on the planet (as well as the fattest, but I digress). SA won 4 les under his watch (most notably, the 2007 gift). Before Stern, the Spurs were nothing. During his tenure, however, they've now won the 4th most les in NBA history.

2007 GIFT? What suspending guys who actually do run onto the floor? I mean thats a rule right? Only gift we got was them being so dumb to do it, even then the Spurs win that series IMO. LA got that .4 bullish, thank him for that F IN GIFT! Now that was robbery

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Honestly, the reason stars are stars is because they are good at drawing fouls and selling them.

So you honestly think that Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, and Dwayne Wade are not given extra steps, allowed to carry the ball or given the baby treatment when they drive the lane? You don't think that if you so much as breathe on Kevin Durant he will get a call but you can beat the out of Ron Artest and they swallow the whistle? You ever watch Allen Iverson play when he was with the 76ers? It's so prevalent that HoF coaches like Larry Brown talk about it like it's a given. You been living under a rock or something?

You don't see Darelle Revis allowed to grab receivers going downfield. You don't see Justin Verlander get extra room on the outside corner. No, it's basketball that you see that in and you see it every game.

What's worse is that they baby the out of perimeter players and don't call jack on the inside but for 3 seconds. You can hammer the out of Bynum, Howard and Duncan and nary a call. It's so contrived as to be obvious.

[coyotes_geek]

No sense of history I see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Rozelle

Read and learn.

Respectfully disagree. Rozelle's a close #2, but Stern did more for the NBA than Rozelle did for the NFL.

[coyotes_geek]

Two out of two times, Stern emerged from his secret room and announced the Spurs had the first pick.

Two out of three TBH...

[Creation88]

good riddance to that ego-maniacal, bag

[Vito Corleone]

I wish one thing moving forward from the new commish

Leave the game alone. It's a great game just like it is, you don't need to keep changing the rules and you don't need to manipulate the refs to get a good matchup.

Let the refs have just a few years of keeping the same set of rules so they can get good at calling a game.

[xmas1997]

The NFL Comish has to be the worst in all of sports. I'll never forgive him for keeping an NFL team out of S.A., him and Jerry Jones.

[DPG21920]

good riddance to that ego-maniacal, bag

I agree he has a ridiculous ego and he is definitely a d-bag but overall he got more good things than bad done is my POV. He's gotten progressively worse though - so I am not upset at him leaving now.

[-21-]

Hey, in 30 years he didn't do too bad. The league and the sport has grown so much and some credit must be given to him. Congratulations to him stepping down... Hopefully Silver can't be any worse.

[Obstructed_View]

Small market teams like the Spurs have to make a choice: profit or compete. I love Holt because he chooses the latter but what about teams like the Clippers that have chosen the former for the past 30 years?

Not really going to debate with someone that labels the Clippers a "small market team", but there's plenty to about in your post. Star treatment comes from the fact that Dr. J, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan turned the NBA from a league broadcasting the finals on tape delay at midnight to a multi-billion-dollar global powerhouse. A fan of the two-time-lottery-champion, four Spurs whining about how small market teams are treated is equally laughable.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Not really going to debate with someone that labels the Clippers a "small market team", but there's plenty to about in your post. Star treatment comes from the fact that Dr. J, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan turned the NBA from a league broadcasting the finals on tape delay at midnight to a multi-billion-dollar global powerhouse. A fan of the two-time-lottery-champion, four Spurs whining about how small market teams are treated is equally laughable.

Who gives a flying why it came into being. It's nice ot see that you do not disagree that the rules are different for Kobe Bryant than they are for Danny Green and that is the point. The NBA will fix games so certain outcomes are preferred. In this case its so that their 'stars' see greater success. Your causation does nothing to mitigate my point.

It's called marketshare and despite LA being a large media market its already well saturated. You have the Lakers and Kings both of which are highly successful and have seasons that run concurrently. They also have to to compete with the Dodgers in the Spring and Summer. They are clearly the low man on the totem pole.

The Lakers have a $3b TV contract. Do the Clippers?

No they do not and as such there lesser revenue stream put them in a position where they had to make a choice: profit or compete. You remember the Elgin Baylor GMed years where the constant refrain was how they had terrible faciliites that did not put there players in position to succeed? You remember the constant stream of lottery picks that they did not pay to retain? Only under new management have they changed.

As for the Spurs, I guess you missed the part where I said you made a choice: compete or profit. Was your head up your ass when the Scola trade went down and the financial considerations behind it were made apparent? I recall a whole litany of complaints around that time of Holt being cheap.

Did it escape your notice the stand that Holt took with the other small market teams during the lockout? They went on their own to make those statements about having to look after their interests while Stern and Silver were playing to their other interests. The team has been treading water financially.

The Thunder just traded Harden cause ownership wouldn't pay him ffs. Your head has to be up your ass.

[Obstructed_View]

I think it's a star-driven league. I didn't say the refs give them special treatment, nor would I suggest that the NBA has actively worked to make that happen. As a Spurs fan, you should be ashamed of yourself for even suggesting it, as the greatest player at his position is in town, and his free throw attempts are down to the same levels as when he was a rookie. Kobe Bryant gets calls when he's aggressively going inside instead of jacking up thirty footers, because he's one of the best players of all time. If you ask Kobe, he'll tell you he gets about half the calls he deserves. If you think that Danny Green is as good at drawing fouls or going inside as Kobe Bryant, then I really have no idea how to help you. I don't even blindly hate Kobe Bryant that much.

If you were to make a case that the refs don't call fouls on star players because the league wants to keep them in the game, I might be inclined to agree, though it's not like players foul out terribly often. Usually good players get to the line because, well, they're good players. When the NBA has someone like Tim Tebow who's a star without being any good and he leads the league in FTA, we'll revisit this conversation.

The Thunder traded Harden because he wanted a max contract, and they've already got two max players, one of whom is arguably already at Harden's position. There are no rules that keep OKC from paying him, they just weren't going to give him that kind of money. Instead, they traded him for way more than he was worth to a team that is going to overpay him and regret it. Sounds like a pretty good system to me.

I love that it's David Stern's fault that Donald Sterling is a piece of owner, though. Stick with that one. The Lakers work their ass off to get good players, and their fans demand that they do. They earned their market share, and therefore their TV contract, by winning one out of every four championships since the NBA began.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's clear what i meant when I said star treatment. You said:

Star treatment comes from the fact that Dr. J, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan turned the NBA from a league broadcasting the finals on tape delay at midnight to a multi-billion-dollar global

Dissemble more.

Paul, Nash, Bryant, Durant, Wade, James etc are allowed to hack, carry, take extra steps etc and calls are made against players who try to play physical with them moreso. Its pretty blatant just like it was back in the day for MJ, Magic, Bird, etc. You like your head up your ass though so if you cannot see it then i am not surprised.

And you're right, they traded Harden because they did not want to pay him. At least four teams would have offered him the max the moment he hit FA. Worth is determined by the market and not by random fans opinion. He's the third best SG in the league and they got him for two chuckers and a lottery pick. It's nice to know where your a en sits in terms of NBA talent though.

And if anything is shameful then it's this comment:

The Lakers work their ass off to get good players,

i suppose it takes some doing to get Orlando to trade Howard for Afflalao or Vancouver prospects for Gasol or the 13th pick for Vlade Divac. Real tough work there.

Look at their roster. Other than Kobe who have they developed? They use their financial position to sign players or to leverage trades and therein lies their compe ive advantage. i don't deny that Riley built a team back in the 1980s but the Lakers have been exploiting their monetary advantage ever since. It's not 'hard work' not anymore it's not.

Compare that with OKC who did the work scouting and player development but either choose to lose their players to larger markets or ask their ownership to take a loss.

At least you gave up the argument about the Clippers being a large market team. The Lakers had been entrenched since before 1960 and the Clippers didn't move from San Diego until 1981. While the Clippers were bad the Dodgers and Showtime dominated the media time and later the Kings. Remember the Gretzky trade? Meanwhile the Clippers got to play farm team for NBA clubs.

The thing that sticks out to me more than anything though --and something you just chose to ignore-- was while Stern was leaving lockout negotiations, Holt, speaking for smallmarket teams, spoke publicly that small market interests were not being considered and they felt they had to make a stand.

[Obstructed_View]

Paul, Nash, Bryant, Durant, Wade, James etc are allowed to hack, carry, take extra steps etc and calls are made against players who try to play physical with them moreso. Its pretty blatant just like it was back in the day for MJ, Magic, Bird, etc. You like your head up your ass though so if you cannot see it then i am not surprised.

Yes, that's why Bruce Bowen fouled out so often and Steve Nash had no bruises on his ankles. Again, you're not worthy of calling yourself a Spurs fan for the re ed you say.

And you're right, they traded Harden because they did not want to pay him. At least four teams would have offered him the max the moment he hit FA. Worth is determined by the market and not by random fans opinion. He's the third best SG in the league and they got him for two chuckers and a lottery pick. It's nice to know where your a en sits in terms of NBA talent though.

Joe Johnson and Brook Lopez got max contracts too. Doesn't make them max players. Worth is determined by what you get for trading his ass away. Even with per 36 numbers Harden isn't the third best SG in the league. Unless you think he's better than Manu, he's the third best SG in the division. When he has gaudy numbers and the Rockets don't make the playoffs, you can get back with me. Seems odd that the chuckers traded for him shoot less than he does.

i suppose it takes some doing to get Orlando to trade Howard for Afflalao or Vancouver prospects for Gasol or the 13th pick for Vlade Divac. Real tough work there.

If it's so ing easy, why didn't everyone else do it? Why didn't the Clippers do it? Why didn't Miami do it? Why couldn't New Jersey (the team Howard STILL wants to play for) do it? Oh yeah, they didn't have Andrew Bynum, who the Lakers drafted, developed and refused to trade through several years of blockbuster offers. Same with the Gasol trade. Not the Lakers' fault that they got it done when nobody else could. And the fact that the 13th pick turned into Kobe was good scouting, as (duh) 12 teams passed on him, and nobody thought he was going to be much. Most people thought the Divac trade was a good move by Charlotte.

Look at their roster. Other than Kobe who have they developed?

Other than guys like Andrew Bynum, Derek Fisher, Devean George, Rony Turiaf, Jordan Farmar, and Sasha Vujacic who all contributed to les? How about Vlade Divac, who they traded for Kobe? I agree that it's ty that Shaq left Orlando for the Lakers, but he was determined to be a Laker. Find me a commissioner that has the power to stop that.

They use their financial position to sign players or to leverage trades and therein lies their compe ive advantage.

They had no financial position to abuse when they got Shaq. He wanted to go there because they were the marquee team in the big market. They had no more financial advantage than any other team when they took advantage of the Grizzlies' attempts to devalue the franchise by moving Gasol. They had no more financial advantage than any other team when they took advantage of Denver and Orlando and Philly to dismantle their teams in order to get whatever they got in the Dwight Howard trade. They also had the balls to sign Howard with no guarantee that he'd re-sign with them, something nobody else would do. Again, if blockbuster trades were so easy, everyone would do it. If it were only the Lakers' financial position that allowed it, then they'd be the only ones to EVER do it, and they're not. Why is it okay for OKC to draft Durant and Harden and Westbrook with top four picks, but it's somehow cheating if the Lakers do it with the 26th (Divac), tenth (Bynum) and thirteenth (Bryant) picks? News flash: Steve Nash doesn't come to play for the Lakers in 2012 if the Lakers draft Lorenzen Wright in 1996.

i don't deny that Riley built a team back in the 1980s but the Lakers have been exploiting their monetary advantage ever since. It's not 'hard work' not anymore it's not.

lolwut? The Kareem trade was one of the most one-sided in history, moreso than either Howard or Gasol. The Lakers got awarded Magic Johnson because the Jazz signed one of their free agents. Not sure how that's harder work than what the Lakers have done since Shaq left and they couldn't get out of the first round with Kobe and Smush Parker. There was no TV contract at that time, and nobody wanted to play with Kobe. I wonder what the Clippers' excuse was then. "Oh, we're a small market". lul.

Compare that with OKC who did the work scouting and player development but either choose to lose their players to larger markets or ask their ownership to take a loss.

If the financial numbers worked out the way you claim, you could make a case. They don't, and you can't. They also didn't lose their player, they decided, correctly, that he wasn't worth the max and traded him. With top four lottery picks three years in a row, the only risk they ran during that stretch was picking Greg Oden. If you're blaming the Lakers for not sucking super bad three years in a row and then getting lucky with ping pong balls in strong drafts to boot, then I don't really know how someone can defend from that kind of attack.

At least you gave up the argument about the Clippers being a large market team.

Actually, I told you that you're stupid for even trying to say they aren't. I didn't think it required repeating. If you think the Clippers aren't a large market team, then you're a moron. Period.

The Lakers had been entrenched since before 1960 and the Clippers didn't move from San Diego until 1981. While the Clippers were bad the Dodgers and Showtime dominated the media time and later the Kings. Remember the Gretzky trade? Meanwhile the Clippers got to play farm team for NBA clubs.

...in Los Angeles, the second biggest market. The Kings managed to get the best hockey player in the world, while the Clippers missed out on some of the greatest players in history that were readily available in the draft. They then let pretty decent players leave for nothing via free agency without even bothering to trade them away. Again, show me a commissioner that can fix that kind of inep ude.

The thing that sticks out to me more than anything though --and something you just chose to ignore-- was while Stern was leaving lockout negotiations, Holt, speaking for smallmarket teams, spoke publicly that small market interests were not being considered and they felt they had to make a stand.

The fact that you miss out on is that Holt was the chairman of the league labor committee, and guess who appointed him? Yep, David Stern. Holt and the committee were given the right to speak for all the teams. Stern didn't have any hand in it. In fact, he had the flu when the owners left the table at one point. If the facts matched up to many of the things you say, again, there might be a case to be made. The things you say are the rantings of an angry fan who doesn't like what the refs and the Lakers and cir stances have done to his team. Admirable, as homerism goes. Not remotely connected to reality though.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nobody reads the line by line. If you want to make a compelling arguement that anyone else cares about then you would be best not to resort to the strategy. I msyelf got bored halfway through especially with all your unsubstantiated assertions.

Derek Fisher, Devean George, Rony Turiaf, Jordan Farmar, and Sasha Vujacic

1) thank you for that.

2) you don't get to be that arbiter of who is worthy of being a spurs fan. That is asinine. no downright idiotic on several levels

3) Sasha Vujacic thanks again

4) http://articles.nydailynews.com/1996...s-o-neal-signs yeah they signed O'Neal through hard work... of course ever team could afford to pay a 7 year $120m deal in 1996. The Spurs and Warriors sure could compete with that even without the collusion

5) Devean George hard work!

6) It was widely held that given the market nature of OKC they were borderline irresponsible to have three players signed to that amount. The reason wasn't because they didn't have the best young trio in the game but because what it would have meant in trying to field a team and the incrementally more draconian luxury tax.

7) do you really think that LA, NY, Dallas, or Chicago would have hesitated for a moment to retain him?

8) the market determines what contract a player is worth. several teams were clearing room and it was widely reported that Harden along with Bynum were to be the jewels of next years crop. I know you have your nose in but its widely publicized.

9) Ronny Turiaf

10) “The culmination of the decision to ultimately move in another direction; we got to a point where we were very transparent, very direct as we are with all of our negotiations with our players as to the fact we had reached a point where we needed to make a decision. We made a final proposal on Friday morning that was unacceptable. We then came back prior to beginning to execute a trade initiation with another proposal. And we were very transparent with James that if this is not acceptable then we were going to have to move towards making the best decision for the franchise given the fact that it was becoming a reality that more than likely he’d be signing elsewhere at the end of the season. Once that reality was met, as we have in the past, this organization turned the page. We started to focus on what was in the best interest of the program and focus on capitalizing on an opportunity to help us both in the short term and also continue to strengthen the future of the Thunder organization and building this program in a sustainable fashion.”

Do you need me to hold your mental hand through the meaning of sustainability in terms of financial policy?

11) I did like the part where you claim that Manu is better than Harden. Nevermind the 13 years of 'experience' and rigorous endurance he has on Harden but it sure was apparent in the playoffs.

12) I did like how you dropped most of the star treatment discussion but for a nonsequitor. You admitted that they call star players differently anyway so your pout was moot anyway.

13) You obviously don't know about market saturation. i'll help:

Compe ive Analysis
The Clippers have an advantage of being in such a densely populated region of California, in the heart of downtown Los Angeles, so attracting a large fan base in theory should not be difficult. However, the Clippers face a massive amount of compe ion for time spent pursuing recreational entertainment activities. With several other sports franchises, Hollywood, and a massive night life; competing forms of entertainment are a major threat to the success of the Clippers. The Staples Center of downtown Los Angeles is the versatile home of the Clippers as well as their rivals, the Los Angeles Lakers, and other sports franchises such as the LA Kings (NHL) and the LA Sparks (WNBA). LA is also home to the Dodgers, Angels and Galaxy, three more major sport franchises that are all competing for the recreational dollars of LA’s residents. The Staples Center is not only a sports venue it is also home of LA Live. L.A. Live is a sports and entertainment district surrounding the Staples Center. Inside LA Live are music venues, night clubs, restaurants, a bowling alley, museum and movie theaters, LA Live has positioned itself as the place to go in LA for live entertainment. Competing with the Lakers is no small task, but one way the Clippers have had success is through price. Price is a major factor determining fan support. Clippers tickets are substantially cheaper than those of the Lakers. Fans can sit on the 300 level for as little as $15 or spend up to $150 to sit in the 100 level seats. The Lakers, also playing in LA’s Staples Center, charge $30 for the same 300 level seat and 100 level seats reach up to $282.2 For LA basketball fans, ticket pricing can determine team loyalty. Those who cannot afford the Lakers’ prices, but still want to attend a game, have the Clippers as an alternative.

http://pages.uoregon.edu/dcheney/docs/clippers.pdf

It's actually a very interesting read. I enjoyed it.

14) Stern didn't appoint Holt. Look up the NBA Board of directors and try again.

[Mr. Body]

Good riddance. I've come to hate that creep.

Yes, he's done a good job of advancing the sport throughout the world. He's done his part.

But it would take a moron to have blown the expansion/success of the NBA in the era of ESPN's explosion and Michael Jordan's existence. He presided over, from the mid-1980s, probably the era of the greatest concentration of pure talent in world basketball history. It would take a moron to fail at that. And he's no moron.

Yet he turned the game into a star-centric spectacle where stars get unbelievable treatment. He continually favored certain teams and markets. He presided over two flagrant cash-grabs on behalf of the owners in two lock-outs, including last year's complete debacle (why it's not discussed more is beyond me). He raped the city of Seattle unmercifully, helping a team of cronies steal away a beloved franchise for no apparent reason.

that guy.

[Obstructed_View]

Nobody reads the line by line. If you want to make a compelling arguement that anyone else cares about then you would be best not to resort to the strategy. I msyelf got bored halfway through especially with all your unsubstantiated assertions.

Well, that's too bad, since everything I posted was completely true and researched. The Lakers players developed all contributed to les, many of them at the expense of the Spurs. Again, you have no business claiming to be a Spurs fan if you don't realize it. Also, LA is still a big market. Also, the NBA board of directors is not the same as the league labor committee.

Also, "star calls". Lol. Dwight Howard fouled out. Dumbass.