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  1. #51
    Five Rings... Kori Ellis's Avatar
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    I gotta admit that the amount of endorsements the program received is fairly impressive, IMO.
    Well, they did have Bruce Bowen. So I'll give them that

  2. #52
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Sure there's a chance. There's also a chance that the city is going to one day wish they had some taxing capacity left over to pay for something like more policemen, more firemen, more infrastructure, or whatever other services the city is obligated to provide. They just gave that up in order to get in to education when there are already school districts whose sole purpose is to do stuff like this.
    Fair point. But its only an 8 year commitment and a tax for more first responders through something like bond would be far easier to raise than for a program like this.

  3. #53
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Great. Fund it. Give it to the schools that are already providing half day so they can staff up to full day.

    You don't have to build new campuses to do this.
    You don't have to but the fact that you don't have to doesn't mean its not a worthy idea to do so. There's more than one way to skin a cat.

  4. #54
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Every single elementary school in San Antonio offers pre-k for kids that meet the exact same guidelines as the city plan. These are education professionals with the education and transportation infrastructure already in place.
    http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/...-a-4013935.php

    Not everyone agrees that the current set up is adequate. Is that guy just uninformed?

  5. #55
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I don't think promoting them is the point here. Everything I've read up (rather hastily) has pointed to the idea being to improve on the prek education for some of the students. Its a type of pilot program. It doesn't cost much and it might turn out to be a great thing. I don't get the hate for it. I certainly don't get the "informed voters will vote THIS WAY or they're not informed" idea. I believe that there are merits to this type of program and it may or may not succeed. Making a judgement all on whether or not you think the city should be doing this is more about your personal outlook on things than being informed.

    I gotta admit that the amount of endorsements the program received is fairly impressive, IMO.
    Because anyone against the city doing it was painted as "against pre-k education" which couldn't be further from the truth.

    And Kori has it nailed. Those parents that are too lazy to enroll their kids in pre-k at the elementary school around the corner damn sure aren't gonna get up early and drive 30 minutes in traffic to get their kids to the city run pre k.

  6. #56
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    I don't think promoting them is the point here. Everything I've read up (rather hastily) has pointed to the idea being to improve on the prek education for some of the students. Its a type of pilot program. It doesn't cost much and it might turn out to be a great thing. I don't get the hate for it. I certainly don't get the "informed voters will vote THIS WAY or they're not informed" idea. I believe that there are merits to this type of program and it may or may not succeed. Making a judgement all on whether or not you think the city should be doing this is more about your personal outlook on things than being informed.

    I gotta admit that the amount of endorsements the program received is fairly impressive, IMO.
    Not living in SA, I really don't have a dog in this hunt. But, as a fiscal conservative, duplicating existing services is a fool's errand. This plan a.) Makes no attempt at identifying why students dont go to their local schools for pre -k
    b). Assumes the Kevin Costner stance: "Build it and they will come." c). Adds an additional administrative layer to a process that absolutely does not need additional administration.
    Cloaking it in "But, think of the children!" garb is dishonest as well.

  7. #57
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/...ne-4014256.php

    More info that the state system may not be doing so well.

  8. #58
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    You don't have to but the fact that you don't have to doesn't mean its not a worthy idea to do so. There's more than one way to skin a cat.
    The data underlying the methodology of the plan is lacking, Manny. As in completely invisible.

  9. #59
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Because anyone against the city doing it was painted as "against pre-k education" which couldn't be further from the truth.

    And Kori has it nailed. Those parents that are too lazy to enroll their kids in pre-k at the elementary school around the corner damn sure aren't gonna get up early and drive 30 minutes in traffic to get their kids to the city run pre k.
    You really want to throw that stone CC? Seems to me you built a of glass house.

  10. #60
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/...ne-4014256.php

    More info that the state system may not be doing so well.
    Summary: We need money.


    Good. Give 'em money. Don't waste it on duplicate buildings, and add an additional layer of administrative costs.

  11. #61
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    You really want to throw that stone CC? Seems to me you built a of glass house.
    WTF are you talking about? I am not against pre-k education. I am against the city raising taxes to fund a redundant program to compete with the local school districts.

  12. #62
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    The data underlying the methodology of the plan is lacking, Manny. As in completely invisible.
    Completely fair point too and an obvious reason to be wary.

    Ok I'm done playing devils advocate.

    I think the idea has some merit but the lack of details is a big question mark. I'm not sure how I would have voted had I been in San Antonio. I think this is a really good form of leadership though. I was not a fan of Castro in the past but I really like the type of "big idea" thinking he's brought in for San Antonio. Some of it may flop but some of it may lead to city programs that are incredibly beneficial.

  13. #63
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    WTF are you talking about? I am not against pre-k education. I am against the city raising taxes to fund a redundant program to compete with the local school districts.
    I'm talking about you complaining how the other side is painting you while you sit back and paint the other side as completely "uninformed".

  14. #64
    Scrumtrulescent
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    Fair point. But its only an 8 year commitment and a tax for more first responders through something like bond would be far easier to raise than for a program like this.
    That's just it though, the city can't raise taxes for more first responders or anything else now. They've capped out their tax rate.

  15. #65
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Summary: We need money.


    Good. Give 'em money. Don't waste it on duplicate buildings, and add an additional layer of administrative costs.
    Except the buildings aren't duplicate. Once again, the programs don't seem to be equivalent We have magnet high schools that are great. Maybe magnet prek progrms would be too?

  16. #66
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    That's just it though, the city can't raise taxes for more first responders or anything else now. They've capped out their tax rate.
    I thought they capped their sales tax rate? That doesn't mean you can't raise money through bonds, AFAIK.

  17. #67
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I thought they capped their sales tax rate? That doesn't mean you can't raise money through bonds, AFAIK.
    The tax is currently .08125. The want to tax an additional .00125 to build their redundant prek4 program which will bring us up the the legal limit of .0825.

  18. #68
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Completely fair point too and an obvious reason to be wary.

    Ok I'm done playing devils advocate.
    If we ever get together for a beer, I'm buying the first round. Then I'm kicking you in the shin.

  19. #69
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Except the buildings aren't duplicate. Once again, the programs don't seem to be equivalent We have magnet high schools that are great. Maybe magnet prek progrms would be too?
    They absolutely are a duplication. SA already has enough school buildings. The head of their Pre-K program has publicly stated that there are no capacity issues at play here.

  20. #70
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    I'm talking about you complaining how the other side is painting you while you sit back and paint the other side as completely "uninformed".
    Manny, you weren't here for the advertising blitz. They acted like the existing school programs didn't exist and that the only way those poor kids could get prek was to raise the sales tax.

  21. #71
    Cinnamon Girl mrsmaalox's Avatar
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    I'm really surprised this passed. My kids had the full advantage of free all day PreK courtesy of the state of Georgia; but that program was executed without waste and redundancy. As much as I believe in the importance of PreK, and have personally benefitted and seen the positive results, I just couldn't get behind this one.

    I do, however, think that painting this as a political move only to benefit Castro is wrong. His implementation of SERVE SA and his successful establishment of Cafe College is a testament that his dedication to furthering the education of San Antonians is more than just for his personal political gain.

  22. #72
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    I thought they capped their sales tax rate? That doesn't mean you can't raise money through bonds, AFAIK.
    Your bonding capacity is dependent on your tax revenue stream available to pay those bonds back. Tax revenue dedicated to the pre-k program is potential revenue that is no longer available make bond payments, thus the city's bonding capacity is reduced. Maybe that becomes a problem, maybe it doesn't. Either way, where the city used to have a safety net of the ability to increase tax revenue they've now given that up.

  23. #73
    A neverending cycle Trainwreck2100's Avatar
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    I'm talking about you complaining how the other side is painting you while you sit back and paint the other side as completely "uninformed".
    If one voted for this thing they were uninformed it was a piece of .
    Except the buildings aren't duplicate. Once again, the programs don't seem to be equivalent We have magnet high schools that are great. Maybe magnet prek progrms would be too?
    Magnets are for all children this is limited to broke and military kids iirc it is part of it's tyness

  24. #74
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I bet the NFL won't come to SA now

  25. #75
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    I'm really surprised this passed. My kids had the full advantage of free all day PreK courtesy of the state of Georgia; but that program was executed without waste and redundancy. As much as I believe in the importance of PreK, and have personally benefitted and seen the positive results, I just couldn't get behind this one.

    I do, however, think that painting this as a political move only to benefit Castro is wrong. His implementation of SERVE SA and his successful establishment of Cafe College is a testament that his dedication to furthering the education of San Antonians is more than just for his personal political gain.
    Granted I'm not an SA resident and don't pay a whole lot of attention to Castro, but I haven't seen anything that makes me doubt his sincerity here. I think he's genuine and his intentions here are noble, they're just misguided IMHO. I don't think a City should be spending their money building schools anymore than I think a school district should be spending their money hiring policemen.

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