Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Bucks - Dec. 4

[Stabula]

Bonner seems to be a humble and smart guy I can never fully hate him. Yeah he's fool's gold and will disappear in the playoffs like he always does but I've always found it a shame that this is the case. I hope he's magically able to turn it around someday (unlikely) because when he puts in the effort he adds to the team no matter how marginal that value is.

[007nites]

I knew I wasn't the only one who noticed Joseph's defense.

[Manufan909]

Thanks for the grades, timvp! Do you think Pop might experiment with Tiago in the SL once everyone's healthy, as long as Splitter continues to beast half the time, and Blair continues to suck all the time? It's probably fools gold, but I remain cautiously optimistic.

Who knew the Spurs would go on a run with a lineup of De Colo, Neal, Anderson, Bonner, and Splitter?

Great coaching by Pop and props to the bench for fighting hard.

I was about to ask who the Dream 5 were. I sadly missed the entire third quarter, so I didn't get to enjoy the bench mob once again cleaning up the starters mess. I regret not seeing Anderson and De Colo most of all. Reading the quick grades had me confused cus Colo only ended up with 2 assists, but apparently he had a few hockey assists. On a completely unrelated note, Blair sucking it up now that he's a starter is getting on my nerves big time. Give Tiago a chance, Pop!!!

as a completely objective fan
spurs need to pass the ball to tiago "mr fourth quarter" splitter more
nando is the only spur who passed to him and its no suprised we went on a 16-2 when he did
splitter either got easy layups or made good passes while rolling
then parker came in and played hero mode and the lead went away

fixed

You're not wrong though, Splitter was wide open 2 or 3 times in the 4th and the ball handler just straight up ignored him. One time in particular JA received the pass when he was behind the backboard and had 2 guys keying in on him, and Splitter was all alone 5 ft in front of the rim. CoJo, Neal and TP MUST become significantly better at finding Tiago by the end of the season, cuz he is one sly mother er who is always either open, about to be open, or hustling to set a screen. Manu 1 and 2 already watch out for the Golden God very well. He was definitely mixing it up on his scores this game, he had a reverse layup, a floater, a finger roll, possibly a dunk cuz I missed the third quarter, everything but his patented hook.

[TDMVPDPOY]

matt bonners rebound, just doing the dirty work that undersized big on the team is not doing...

[ElNono]

What grade did you want him to get? A plus/minus twice as bad as anyone else. The Spurs outscored the Bucks by 22 points in the 23 minutes he wasn't on the court. Difficult to ignore, tbh. On top of that even CoM would have to admit his decisions weren't the greatest. De Colo came in and did a better impression of Manu than Manu did of himself. That has never and should never happen, tbh.

B- would've been more fitting, IMO... he had as many assists/min as Tony, tbh... Also the Spurs outscored the Bucks by a whole bunch when Tony wasn't on the floor too, I don't see you nitpicking on that when it comes to Tony either, tbh... heck, Tony was pretty much invisible in the last quarter.

I know you're trying to be objective with these grades and all, but the bias are *clearly* showing...

Parker has been defending the opposing point guard in virtually every game this season. I don't remember a time he hasn't. Pop hasn't pulled out his "put Green on the opposing PG" trick thus far this season.

So your official stance is that it doesn't happen...

[Manufan909]

Does anyone remember how Nando scored his two buckets that weren't 3s? I remember timvp saying something about Nando actually scoring while being guarded, but I missed it. Stupid ads...

[timvp]

Do you think Pop might experiment with Tiago in the SL once everyone's healthy, as long as Splitter continues to beast half the time, and Blair continues to suck all the time?

No, I don't think Splitter is in line to start (other than games against the Lakers and any other team that comes up with a pair of large bigmen). Splitter is needed to anchor the bench unit -- on both sides of the court. Hypothetically the Spurs could start both and still have Splitter play with the bench ... but then if Splitter gets in early foul trouble, the bench becomes a bunch of midgets.

For Splitter to move into the starting lineup, the Spurs would have to acquire a backup center.

That said, I'm hoping Pop bumps Splitter's minutes up to ~25 MPG. That's doable and it should be a priority to play your fourth or fifth best player a healthy amount of time.

[ElNono]

BTW, timvp...

timvp has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

sup with this? Get your estonian operators to fix this immediately, tbh.

[playblair]

what do the spurs do with anderson.... he has been playing similar to pre injury ja ...

[siraulo23]

thanks for the grades, i missed the game

is bonner back to being 3rd/4th big again? wtf

[timvp]

B- would've been more fitting, IMO...

So big biased meanie gave a C instead of a B-. OK. Do you agree with TP getting a B?

You must have pretty low expectations of Manu if you think this was an average game for him. He wasn't bad but he's Manu Ginobili; his standards should be higher than having the worst plus/minus on the team and hitting 30% of his shots.

Ginobili is damn good at basketball, if you haven't noticed.

I don't see you nitpicking on that when it comes to Tony either, tbh

If Manu had 22 points (on 11 shots) and ten assists and I only gave him a B, you'd drive over to my house and murder me, tbh.

.. heck, Tony was pretty much invisible in the last quarter.

?

Four points and three assists on three shots in seven minutes. That's ~28 points and ~21 assists per 48 minutes. Not exactly what I'd call invisible, but to each his own.

I know you're trying to be objective with these grades and all, but the bias are *clearly* showing...

I didn't see it til after I posted my grades but:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206388

Everyone biased

So your official stance is that it doesn't happen...

I don't remember it happening so far during the regular season. IIRC, Kawhi defended CP3 for a few possessions in the first Clippers game ... but since then I don't remember any hiding of TP. Do you?

[freetiago]

take bonner over blair right now
blair is undersized, doesnt rebound, still makes stupid mistakes and cant shoot
but if i had a choice i would take neither
bucks have a lot of frontcourt players
spurs should try to get a trade with them
dalembert is racking up dnps with the bucks
he would be a great 3rd big for us
henson, udoh, sanders all need big minutes and mbah a moute can play the 4 as well

[timvp]

BTW, timvp...

timvp has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space.

sup with this? Get your estonian operators to fix this immediately, tbh.

Fixed. Someone must have posted porn or something for my PM box to fill up. Guess I better check, tbh.

[Manufan909]

ElNono I think your patriotism is blinding you. Manu is held to a high standard (won't debate about whether Tony's standard is higher or lower), and he just had a meh game. Even with Tony's TOs and Westbrick imitation in the final minutes, I still believe he was worthy of a B- at least. His incredible shooting percentages more than made up for his flaws, and he was solid on D. I might have Manu in my username, but I still agree with how timvp grades him almost every time.

I did just realize that I really have no clue how Manu is being graded at the moment. Is he still being given the benefit of the doubt to a small degree because of the multiple back injuries, or what?

[timvp]

Does anyone remember how Nando scored his two buckets that weren't 3s? I remember timvp saying something about Nando actually scoring while being guarded, but I missed it. Stupid ads...

He hit a guarded three-pointer on a pass from Manu, IIRC. I was surprised he shot it (since he usually doesn't even shoot when he's open) but glad he made it. He got another bucket on a backdoor pass, also from Manu, IIRC. And then got a backup on a goaltending call when Larry Sanders blocked his shot once and then tried to block it again after it hit the backboard.

[Manufan909]

No, I don't think Splitter is in line to start (other than games against the Lakers and any other team that comes up with a pair of large bigmen). Splitter is needed to anchor the bench unit -- on both sides of the court. Hypothetically the Spurs could start both and still have Splitter play with the bench ... but then if Splitter gets in early foul trouble, the bench becomes a bunch of midgets.

For Splitter to move into the starting lineup, the Spurs would have to acquire a backup center.

That said, I'm hoping Pop bumps Splitter's minutes up to ~25 MPG. That's doable and it should be a priority to play your fourth or fifth best player a healthy amount of time.

If by what's in bold you meant whenever TD is unavailable, then I wholeheartedly agree. Pop had at least 3 games this season (Clippers twice and Grizzlies once) already where Splitter would have made sense. Neither team has 2 "true" 7 footers, but those days are gone, tbh. I might be wrong, but I doubt anyone besides the Lakers are starting 2 quality bigs that are both over 6'10".

Also, why not use lube if you're going to sodomize ElNono so ruthlessly?

[freetiago]

tallball still works as the grizzlies have proven
just need two competent 7 footers
howard +gasol doesnt work because howard has 0 basketball skills
drob+duncan worked because both are good defenders and have range on their jumpshots
gasol+randolph works because gasol at least is a good defender and both have solid all around offensive games

i would take a 7 footer posting up lebron on one end and letting lebron shoot all the jumpshots he wants on the other
he cant actually guard 5 positions and he went something like 10-50 on shots outside the paint in the finals

[silverblackfan]

Cory Joseph and Nando De Colo did fantastic jobs. For both players, their total contribution to the game wasn't really encapsulated by the final stat sheet.

I thought Nando De Colo controlled the flow and pace of the offense really well. He had a few hockey assists and hockey-hockey-assists (Behind the back pass to a rolling Splitter who hits a cutting Anderson who hits Bonner in the corner for a Vinny) that didn't show up in the stat sheet.

Cory Joseph really held is own and kept composure running the point, and when he wasn't running the point, he had pretty good, tenacious defense.

This.

[ElNono]

So big biased meanie gave a C instead of a B-. OK. Do you agree with TP getting a B?

B- for Tony, IMO. If we're grading as far as what individual player's ceilings are, etc. (and I think that's the rationale).

You must have pretty low expectations of Manu if you think this was an average game for him. He wasn't bad but he's Manu Ginobili; his standards should be higher than having the worst plus/minus on the team and hitting 30% of his shots.

Ginobili is damn good at basketball, if you haven't noticed.

Well, we disagree what cons utes an average game for Manu, tbh... Manu having an average game is an automatic B+, IMO. And that's indeed because Manu is damn good at basketball (and because the church's scriptures make it so, but that's a different topic). His 'average' is a lot of people's 'good' games.

A 'subpar' game would place him at B or B-... C means basically he didn't suit up, or there's some hidden agenda, tbh.

If Manu had 22 points (on 11 shots) and ten assists and I only gave him a B, you'd drive over to my house and murder me, tbh.

Murder is too much and frankly, I'm not at driving distance, which is an impediment. I would likely contact one of the church many minions and have him "borrow" your Tony Parker poster collection though.

Four points and three assists on three shots in seven minutes. That's ~28 points and ~21 assists per 48 minutes. Not exactly what I'd call invisible, but to each his own.

You left out two turnovers... and half of those points where from freebies... hero ball all over... at least Manu had half the amount of turnovers and twice as many rebounds.

I'm just merely one CoM member speaking out against this injustice, tbh...

I didn't see it til after I posted my grades but:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206388

Everyone biased

tbh, haven't checked that thread yet, but I'm sure the churchgoers will contact me immediately if there's something going on there.

I don't remember it happening so far during the regular season. IIRC, Kawhi defended CP3 for a few possessions in the first Clippers game ... but since then I don't remember any hiding of TP. Do you?

IIRC, Green defended CP3 sporadically in the last Clippers game too. But I would need to review my extensive videotape collection to give you a better answer, tbh.

[timvp]

B- for Tony, IMO. If we're grading as far as what individual player's ceilings are, etc. (and I think that's the rationale).

B- for TP and Manu this game? Interesting.

Well, we disagree what cons utes an average game for Manu, tbh... Manu having an average game is an automatic B+, IMO. And that's indeed because Manu is damn good at basketball (and because the church's scriptures make it so, but that's a different topic). His 'average' is a lot of people's 'good' games.

A 'subpar' game would place him at B or B-... C means basically he didn't suit up, or there's some hidden agenda, tbh.

I consider B- as an average grade and then go from there. Perhaps that is the source of the confusion.

Murder is too much and frankly, I'm not at driving distance, which is an impediment. I would likely contact one of the church many minions and have him "borrow" your Tony Parker poster collection though.

Tbh, timvp jr has three posters ... Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker ................ and Matt Bonner

[Manufan909]

He hit a guarded three-pointer on a pass from Manu, IIRC. I was surprised he shot it (since he usually doesn't even shoot when he's open) but glad he made it. He got another bucket on a backdoor pass, also from Manu, IIRC. And then got a backup on a goaltending call when Larry Sanders blocked his shot once and then tried to block it again after it hit the backboard.

Damn timvp, it seems as if you and Duncan orchestrated a buy one get one free deal with the devil to get back to your prime or something.

tallball still works as the grizzlies have proven
just need two competent 7 footers
howard +gasol doesnt work because howard has 0 basketball skills
drob+duncan worked because both are good defenders and have range on their jumpshots
gasol+randolph works because gasol at least is a good defender and both have solid all around offensive games

i would take a 7 footer posting up lebron on one end and letting lebron shoot all the jumpshots he wants on the other
he cant actually guard 5 positions and he went something like 10-50 on shots outside the paint in the finals

I won't deny that the Grizzlies have an opposing frontline, tops in the league by far when it comes to offense, but Z-bo is six freaking nine son. If you average Zach and Marc they are 6'11", which is probably the tallest frontline outside of Indiana, tbh.

And Pop/Sloan/Phil would be able to make Gasol and Howard work, I do believe. Just have them split setting up in the low post equally, curb down Kobe's touches drastically and see what happens. That last requirement is as likely as Bill Clinton being faithful from here on, so the Lakers are ed. Unless Nash's Midas touch is still working, of course.

[DapDaGenius]

I can't believe Bonner had 12 rebounds this game......

[AussieFanKurt]

I can't believe Bonner had 12 rebounds this game......

It was a surprising thing to see, won't see it again for a while

[ElNono]

B- for TP and Manu this game? Interesting.

Tony is the player in his prime, or so we're told ()... Manu is supposed to be the guy on his way out... I mean, in a twisted, sick way, it all makes sense, tbh.

I consider B- as an average grade and then go from there. Perhaps that is the source of the confusion.

That's probably it. We'll be happy to forward you a copy of the scriptures, if you promise not to burn them like Brazil did when we sent them to him...

Tbh, timvp jr has three posters ... Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker ................ and Matt Bonner

That's ed up...







... a Tony Parker poster, really? Poor child

[Sean Cagney]

Bonner seems to be a humble and smart guy I can never fully hate him. .

I can..... He sucks.