NBA: Lakers @ Cleveland game thread presented by sour Pringles

[WeNeedLength]

[Banzai]

Knicks game was exciting tbh

[ElNono]

Do you think Pop could call out Tim if Tim told him to shut the up? Could Spo tell Lebron what to do if Lebron told him to off? No. Players have to be coachable.

Agree 100%. That's why I'm saying it's gonna keep on happening. And that's why Phil was the coach to have. Kobe would look pretty stupid telling a 11x NBA champ coach to STFU...

[DAF86]

D'antoni is dumb and he has always been overrated. There, I said it.

[DMC]

Agree 100%. That's why I'm saying it's gonna keep on happening. And that's why Phil was the coach to have. Kobe would look pretty stupid telling a 11x NBA champ coach to STFU...

Didn't work in 2011. Kobe was Kobe.

If you want to show a system's flaws, run it in it's purest form. The Lakers are trying to run Mike's system in it's purest form, and Kobe is exploiting that to embarrass Mike while padding his scoring le stats at the same time. Last year he gave up on the race and actually sat out a game while he could have clinched it (probably). Not now. He's in " you" mode. He's always been just a Colorado pubic hair from that point anyhow, and only a Zen master like Phil could even get anything from him on a team basis. Some boys you just can't reach.

[DMC]

D'antoni is dumb and he has always been overrated. There, I said it.

No, he was rated about right when NY fired him.

[Trainwreck2100]

seeing this losses has yet to get old

[midnightpulp]

To be fair, Nash is their best defender at a guard position.

Anyone who votes Kobe for an All-Defense team needs to be shot on sight.

And sadly, he'll make All-Defensive 2nd team this year.

[Captivus]

I don't care if Kobe shot 80% and scored 90 points. It's a team sport. You have to play defense and Kobe doesn't defend every shot so why should he take every shot? So many people seem to forget that basketball isn't just about shooting.

If a player like Kobe, overbearing and basically a pariah to his teammates doesn't share the ball, the other people on the team realize they are not trusted. They won't rotate, they won't communicate, they just go through the motions because they don't care
if the team wins or loses. They are no different than a Wizards or a Bobcat team that doesn't care to win. Once you get into that mode it's hard to climb out.

It is on Kobe. He's the leader of that team. He's a ty leader, needs Fish to lead again, but he's the leader and he wouldn't walk across the street to piss on his team if they were on fire. They know that.

I just cant blame this on Kobe...i cant. I cant say that the Lakers lost the game because Kobe didn't defend or Kobe doesn't trust his teammates.
If i say that i would be able to name at least 10 players that can win with this team if they replace Kobe.
Could Jordan win? Kobe's stats today could be easily Jordans.

...Maybe its like you say, and the D12s low FT% is related to bad leadership...I'm not sure, that's all I'm saying.
Duhon play 33 minutes and only had 2 FGA and 2 assists...man...that's bad...very bad...specially when Kobe scored more FG than the entire team assists. (16 vs 11).
If I'm a guard i want to have a lot of assists, im getting Jordan or Kobe. Not even that happens.
Im not saying you are wrong (I'm a man, I know I don't know everything), but blaming Kobe is proving difficult to me.

[Richie]

I'm a big fan of James Worthy, been listening to him a lot after the games. Talking about Lakers poor D and twice singles out Kobe. He ain't afraid to call out the Mamba

[Technique]

Can't wait till these bums come to NY thursday

[Richie]

I just cant blame this on Kobe...i cant. I cant say that the Lakers lost the game because Kobe didn't defend or Kobe doesn't trust his teammates.
If i say that i would be able to name at least 10 players that can win with this team if they replace Kobe.
Could Jordan win? Kobe's stats today could be easily Jordans.

...Maybe its like you say, and the D12s low FT% is related to bad leadership...I'm not sure, that's all I'm saying.
Duhon play 33 minutes and only had 2 FGA and 2 assists...man...that's bad...very bad...specially when Kobe scored more FG than the entire team assists. (16 vs 11).
If I'm a guard i want to have a lot of assists, im getting Jordan or Kobe. Not even that happens.
Im not saying you are wrong (I'm a man, I know I don't know everything), but blaming Kobe is proving difficult to me.

You put Harden on this team for Kobe and Lakers win more. Harden will still get his, but he is an excellent facilitator and gets his support guys involved. That's what made him so good off the bench in OKC, he could get players like Collison, Sefelosha etc... open shots.

[Malik Hairston]

I fully agree that Kobe's defense is atrocious, it has been evident for years, but I'm including that in my overall assessment..his defense was also terrible the past few years, but I'm giving him credit for his career-best efficiency, which is the positive difference between this year's Kobe in comparison to the past few years..

During the off-season, I said that Howard would have to negate the rest of LA's defense, composed of poor defensive players(outside of MWP), but he has not had the defensive impact that he had in Orlando..

I can't blame Kobe for the offense, because up until the last 2 weeks or so, he was sharing the ball and taking shots within the offense..it will be an issue if his shooting regresses to last year's level, though..

[ElNono]

Didn't work in 2011. Kobe was Kobe.

But we've seen this movie before. Kobe was Kobe in 2004 too, and Buss had to go beg Phil to come back again in ('07) and right the ship.

There's no coach out there that can pull off sitting Kobe and when asked say "We needed better defense" and send that kind of message other than Phil.

[Malik Hairston]

If you bench Kobe, you're playing Jodie Meeks, an even worse defender..

Lakers banked on Howard for their defensive success, and while he has been good, he hasn't been the freakish athlete we saw in Orlando, where he completely negated the rest of their ty defensive players..

Howard: good/great
Gasol: average
MWP: good
Kobe: below average
Nash: ass
Blake: ass
Meeks: ass
Jamison: ass
Hill: average

I advocated the hiring of D'Antoni(among the rumored options, outside of Jackson) for this very reason, tbh..LA doesn't have the personnel to play good defense, they needed an offensive minded coach..unfortunately for them, Nash can't get on the court and Gasol's knees are done..

[DMC]

But we've seen this movie before. Kobe was Kobe in 2004 too, and Buss had to go beg Phil to come back again in ('07) and right the ship.

There's no coach out there that can pull off sitting Kobe and when asked say "We needed better defense" and send that kind of message other than Phil.

Or Jesus. Neither are walking though that door. Jim Buss is not going to pay 2 coaches to leave (Brown and Mike) to hire a guy he rejected. Not going to happen.

[ElNono]

If you bench Kobe, you're playing Jodie Meeks, an even worse defender..

Lakers banked on Howard for their defensive success, and while he has been good, he hasn't been the freakish athlete we saw in Orlando, where he completely negated the rest of their ty defensive players..

Howard: good/great
Gasol: average
MWP: good
Kobe: below average
Nash: ass
Blake: ass
Meeks: ass
Jamison: ass
Hill: average

I advocated the hiring of D'Antoni(among the rumored options, outside of Jackson) for this very reason, tbh..LA doesn't have the personnel to play good defense, they needed an offensive minded coach..unfortunately for them, Nash can't get on the court and Gasol's knees are done..

I don't disagree with Howard being not that great (even if he's the best of the bunch). And I'm not saying benching Kobe any extended amount of time. But Phil is the only kind of guy that can send that kind of messages to Kobe.

I also don't buy he regressed so bad defensively. He still gives 110% on offense, but literally doesn't give a on D.

[ElNono]

Or Jesus. Neither are walking though that door. Jim Buss is not going to pay 2 coaches to leave (Brown and Mike) to hire a guy he rejected. Not going to happen.

That's a different story... and up to an extent, not sure Phil wants to touch this team right now either.

[DMC]

That's a different story... and up to an extent, not sure Phil wants to touch this team right now either.

Oh he wants it. He especially wants it now that Brown and Pringles have been humiliated. There's absolutely no better time to fly in as Captain Hindsight and right the ship than right now.

[DUNCANownsKOBE]

No, he was rated about right when NY fired him.

He's being rated about right right now too

[ElNono]

Oh he wants it. He especially wants it now that Brown and Pringles have been humiliated. There's absolutely no better time to fly in as Captain Hindsight and right the ship than right now.

I think Phil is good... probably the all time best... but part of that is having some judgement, and this team is . Kobe is old, Gasol is old, Nash is old, and Howard simply isn't anywhere near as dominant as Shaq... the bench sucks too.

I would agree that from a ego standpoint he would probably like to play saviour. But the reality is that he can wait until the end of the season to walk in as the guy that will fix , get some trades done, and get going next season.

[Cry Havoc]

I just cant blame this on Kobe...i cant. I cant say that the Lakers lost the game because Kobe didn't defend or Kobe doesn't trust his teammates.
If i say that i would be able to name at least 10 players that can win with this team if they replace Kobe.
Could Jordan win? Kobe's stats today could be easily Jordans.

...Maybe its like you say, and the D12s low FT% is related to bad leadership...I'm not sure, that's all I'm saying.
Duhon play 33 minutes and only had 2 FGA and 2 assists...man...that's bad...very bad...specially when Kobe scored more FG than the entire team assists. (16 vs 11).
If I'm a guard i want to have a lot of assists, im getting Jordan or Kobe. Not even that happens.
Im not saying you are wrong (I'm a man, I know I don't know everything), but blaming Kobe is proving difficult to me.

Kobe's the leader and it's always been, "GTFO of my way and LET ME SCORE." Then he whines about players standing around on offense. ing typical.

[DMC]

I think Phil wanted it therefore still does. It looks easy to fix. Phil would ins ute the triangle right away. He's too old next year to start rebuilding with a decrepit old stat padding pile of .

[DMC]

He's being rated about right right now too

I was torn between that and what I said.


Then there's this:

k4lakers Franchise Player Joined: 11 Jun 2008 Posts: 15790 Location: So Cal

Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject: Drive that TANK Lakers!!! Woooooo _________________ Kupchak: "Siri, fix my team." Siri: "OK, I traded some picks you won't use and Sarver will sell for Steve Nash. Shall I send it?"

[Kool Bob Love]