Ian Mahinmi looking pretty darn good tonight

[timvp]

And your stats are fool's gold, just look at the line-ups Mahinmi plays in because Vogel does his rotation in shifts.

On/off isn't that great of a stat but Mahinmi has the lowest number of anyone still on the team (Young was lower before he got waived), so it's not like their entire bench is/was pulling him down.

All I can tell you is that before tonight on Pacer forums the vast majority were thrilled to have him over Lou Admundson who was their back-up 5 last year.

Compared to Amundson, Mahinmi is a clear upgrade. There's no question there since Amundson is so bad offensively that it takes away all his other value. And he's small defensively as a center.

But what's important to note is Amundson is a minimum salaried player. Mahinmi got $16 million this offseason. If you're $16 million investment isn't an upgrade over a minimum salaried player, something is hugely wrong.

Has he been great? No. His shooting is bizarrely poor (but up from November). He's turning the ball over more. But he is a legit back up big right now, not in the potential future.

I didn't say he wasn't legit; I said he wasn't an average backup center yet.

But, damn, as it stands, even this broken down version of Blair we've seen this year puts Mahinmi's numbers to shame: Blair averages more points per minute, more offensive rebounds, more defensive rebounds, more steals, more assists, less fouls, less turnovers, shoots better from the field and shoots better from the line. Literally the only thing Mahinmi is topping Blair on right now is blocks.

I'd take Mahinmi before Blair since Mahinmi actually has ACLs but he's definitely still a work in progress.

[objective]

and just to add re: Pacer fans and the free agent gleam

The masses were very down on Ian because of how he played in November, it might have even stretched into December. Pacer fans were already mad about Bird leaving, and the play of Mahinmi, Green, and Augustin, the marquee signings of the offseason by Walsh, it was like the sky was falling in Pacerland. Fans were posting about how they wanted to see Plumlee instead of Ian, that is when they weren't complaining about how terrible a pick Plumlee was to begin with.

And as I mentioned, instead of just signing Ian outright the Pacers traded Collison for him who would have a killer November. And because Collison was gone, Walsh signed Augustin, so Ian was not only responsible for his own bad play but also the reason that the Pacers now had a terrible back-up point guard.

Ian is in the good graces of most Pacers fans because he's played his way into their good graces. And they watch every game and can see what he does for themselves.

[timvp]

^The Mahinmi trade still looks pretty damn horrid, IMO. You give away Darren Collison for the right to give $16M to Mahinmi and pay Augustin more than Collison was owed? Wow .....

[MoSpur]

Damn! Had no idea this thread was going this way. I just thought he played pretty darn good tonight. I also remember him playing good in a couple of playoff games for Dallas when it mattered. Not sure I woulda paid him $4 million per season.

I'll admit I haven't watched any of his games this season except tonight's so not sure how bad or how good he's been this season. Simply stated his stats for tonight's game and his stats for this season. Just wondering if at 26 if he still has time to improve and if any of you thought he will improve?

[objective]

... But what's important to note is Amundson is a minimum salaried player. Mahinmi got $16 million this offseason. If you're $16 million investment isn't an upgrade over a minimum salaried player, something is hugely wrong.

I didn't say he wasn't legit; I said he wasn't an average backup center yet. ...

But, damn, as it stands, even this broken down version of Blair we've seen this year puts Mahinmi's numbers to shame ...

I'd take Mahinmi before Blair since Mahinmi actually has ACLs but he's definitely still a work in progress.

I don't know that the pay difference is worth noting too much in this context. Bottom line is they improved their back-up 5 and didn't break the bank to do it. A back up who can still get better, albeit in steps and not leaps (and his fouls have been down, relatively, and his blocks up). It's not like they did what the Warriors did last year and paid Kwame 8 million to come off the bench. He's not Robin Lopez, but he is who the Pacers got. He's not the steal of the offseason, but he's not a total stiff like Petro was when got 3/10 from the Nets or Colangelo giving Gray 2/5. Or giving Jackie Butler 2.5 a year.

To me, legit might as well mean average. Players who aren't average might fall out of the league when their contract is up; they're not legit. A whole mess of people on this board (not talking about you) would have sworn up and down that Ian wasn't legit, that he was just a scrub on his way out of the league. But no, he's an NBA player.

[chapnis]

Shows how overpaid big men are at the moment. Makes Splitter contract seem like pretty amazing value.

[MoSpur]

I like Splitter and his contract even better, but to be quite honest, I still think he's soft on defense and limited on offense.

[objective]

Just wondering if at 26 if he still has time to improve and if any of you thought he will improve?

He's getting better but in small ways, and it's slow. But as I've posted, he was a little bit of a lightning rod for frustrated Pacer fans (though all the players were), but his improvement through the season has changed a lot minds. His defense is usually what gets the most praise, because otherwise he's fumbling the ball out of bounds or missing shots.

I don't think he'll be more than a back-up, but a solid rotation player. If he hadn't been locked up earlier than now he probably would be farther along and have a higher ceiling, but that ship sailed.

[MoSpur]

I know I've only seen one of his games this season, but he looks better than when he was playing here. Good luck to him. I hoped the Spurs would've kept him for one more season, but understand.

[exstatic]

I don't know that the pay difference is worth noting too much in this context. Bottom line is they improved their back-up 5 and didn't break the bank to do it. A back up who can still get better, albeit in steps and not leaps (and his fouls have been down, relatively, and his blocks up). It's not like they did what the Warriors did last year and paid Kwame 8 million to come off the bench. He's not Robin Lopez, but he is who the Pacers got. He's not the steal of the offseason, but he's not a total stiff like Petro was when got 3/10 from the Nets or Colangelo giving Gray 2/5. Or giving Jackie Butler 2.5 a year.

To me, legit might as well mean average. Players who aren't average might fall out of the league when their contract is up; they're not legit. A whole mess of people on this board (not talking about you) would have sworn up and down that Ian wasn't legit, that he was just a scrub on his way out of the league. But no, he's an NBA player.

The average NBA PER is about 15. Ian's is 11, so no, he's NOT even average.

[DPG21920]

His first two years he posted PER's of 35 and 21

[Spurs7794]

You know, people harp on certain players as chokers because of small sample size and yet Ian is a proven playoff performer because of 6 games he played in 2011? He hit ONE fadeaway at the third quarter buzzer in game 6 of the finals and thats all that anyone remembers.

His numbers for the 2011 playoff run where he was a vital cog for the team:

6 games played
34 min
3/5 from the field
5/9 from the line
11 pts
6 rebs
0 ast
1 steal
0 blk
0 turnovers
16 fouls

With those numbers, I should be able to prove myself pretty easily in the playoffs.

[Spurs7794]

The fact is Ian proved himself the only time it really matters: the playoffs - in particular the finals. He stepped up in big moments and that's all you need to know.

You know, people harp on certain players as chokers because of small sample size and yet Ian is a proven playoff performer because of 6 games he played in 2011? He hit ONE fadeaway at the third quarter buzzer in game 6 of the finals and thats all that anyone remembers.

His numbers for the 2011 playoff run where he was a vital cog for the team:

6 games played
34 min
3/5 from the field
5/9 from the line
11 pts
6 rebs
0 ast
1 steal
0 blk
0 turnovers
16 fouls

With those numbers, I should be able to prove myself pretty easily in the playoffs.

-Sorry for the double post...

[Mel_13]

If Ian was putting up his current numbers at his current salary with the Spurs, he'd be regarded as the third turd tower.

[jjktkk]

I'm sure OV is still hoping the light will come on for Mahinmi, even though Mahinmi doesn't appear to have a bulb.

[Horse]

Amazing we're still talking about this jerkoff. I almost wish we would have a 30 win season so we could get some appreciation around here for a team that has atleast been in the conversation the last 23 years. I'm a lifelong Redskins fan and know what it's like.

[Chris]

The only reason we're talking about him is because there is a small percentage of Spurs' fans that think letting go of Mahinmi was a bad move. The illusion that we can just plug in any 7 foot center and win a championship.

[objective]

The average NBA PER is about 15. Ian's is 11, so no, he's NOT even average.

PER measures efficiency, and Ian's been shooting poorly and turning the ball over, that's why it's so low. But he's also been making a difference defensively, which is a big part of why most Pacer fans are glad to have him.

Speaking of defense, why don't you go look up Bowen's PER numbers.

I'm not saying Ian is the Bowen of big men, but I am pointing out the fallacy of worshiping PER. It's a tool. , Diaw's PER is only slightly above Ian's. You don't think Diaw is legit?

[TJastal]

PER measures efficiency, and Ian's been shooting poorly and turning the ball over, that's why it's so low. But he's also been making a difference defensively, which is a big part of why most Pacer fans are glad to have him.

Speaking of defense, why don't you go look up Bowen's PER numbers.

I'm not saying Ian is the Bowen of big men, but I am pointing out the fallacy of worshiping PER. It's a tool. , Diaw's PER is only slightly above Ian's. You don't think Diaw is legit?

+1

No doubt Mahinimi's offensive efficiency will improve as he becomes more comfortable in Vogel's system and with his new teammates.. He'll be a solid role player off the bench come playoff time.

[TJastal]

I'm sure OV is still hoping the light will come on for Mahinmi, even though Mahinmi doesn't appear to have a bulb.

Who needs a bulb when they have the glow from a 2011 nba championship trophy? I know what you can do with your bulb. Plant it in your backyard and see it sprouts.

[chapnis]

Also, while the mean PER is 15. The median PER is a touch over 14 this season. And median is probably a better measure of what average is.

[exstatic]

PER measures efficiency, and Ian's been shooting poorly and turning the ball over, that's why it's so low. But he's also been making a difference defensively, which is a big part of why most Pacer fans are glad to have him.

Speaking of defense, why don't you go look up Bowen's PER numbers.

I'm not saying Ian is the Bowen of big men, but I am pointing out the fallacy of worshiping PER. It's a tool. , Diaw's PER is only slightly above Ian's. You don't think Diaw is legit?

Did you REALLY just compare PERs of Ian and Bowen because they are both defensive players? They're not on the same planet, or even galaxy, defensively. Bowen was a constant All Defensive team fixture, frequently on the first team. The only thing that Ian is a fixture about is being on the bench because of fouls, lots and lots of fouls.

[objective]

Did you REALLY just compare PERs of Ian and Bowen because they are both defensive players? They're not on the same planet, or even galaxy, defensively. Bowen was a constant All Defensive team fixture, frequently on the first team. The only thing that Ian is a fixture about is being on the bench because of fouls, lots and lots of fouls.

So are you going to post what Bowen's PERs were? Did you look them up?

Was Bowen an average player?

Because you're the one insisting that PER is the final measurement of what average is.

Here's a link to help you:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/

[exstatic]

Did you REALLY just compare PERs of Ian and Bowen because they are both defensive players? They're not on the same planet, or even galaxy, defensively. Bowen was a constant All Defensive team fixture, frequently on the first team. The only thing that Ian is a fixture about is being on the bench because of fouls, lots and lots of fouls.

Call me when Ian reaches Bowen's defensive level. I'll give him the same dispensation I did with Bruce. Had Bruce NOT been All Universe on D, he'd have no more belonged on the SA roster than Ian ever did.

[objective]

The point is that in the very post you quoted, I said that I wasn't comparing Ian to Bowen as defenders but illustrating the faults of going by PER.

But you ignored that, probably because you couldn't dispute the logic of my point about PER but still had to attack a strawman.