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Some people can never just be content with what they have, Danny is a great player for the price he is getting paid but I guess we can trade for Lebron if we just tried hard enough Do it R.C..
ST operating principles:
1. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. (Mahinmi is a good example)
2. Familiarity breeds contempt. (Green is just the latest in a long line. Bonner once had a Chuck Norris thread and Blair was once so overrated that there were threads asking if he was the second best player in the 2009 draft)
Some people can never just be content with what they have, Danny is a great player for the price he is getting paid but I guess we can trade for Lebron if we just tried hard enough Do it R.C.
Somewhere in the past two years Spurstalk went out and found itself a bunch of self-loathing Spurs fans. Anything not named Tim or Manu is the enemy if they so much as shoot with more than 5 seconds left on the shot clock. It's incredible to me that after all these years, people still think that Tony Parker getting interior penetration against a defense that forces them to collapse is a bad thing. People actually complain when Parker shoots and makes the shot, even if the shot is a good one.
It's unreal. I don't know of any fanbase that's so irrationally pessimistic (I said irrationally, tlong). Good wins don't count because they're flukes or it's the reg season, close wins are indicators of how bad we are, close losses are on Pop for his horrific coaching, and the few times we get beaten badly, this forum goes into "blowup the team" mode (sometimes after the close losses too). I mean, I get that we should have drubbed the Lakers, but every team has bad wins and losses this year. I don't know what changed in the annals of this site to make it Gloom Central after every game. The negative nancys spamming up the game threads don't help, either.
Priceless. Shut down the thread.
Last edited by Cry Havoc; 01-11-2013 at 01:56 PM.
well with memphis really trying to get rid of rudy gay why don't we trade there.
san antonio gets:
SF rudy gay
memphis gets:
SF stephen jackson
PF matt bonner
SG danny green
future first round pick
then trade blair and a second round pick to golden st for jeremy tyler
the salaries line up.
then sign donte greene to replace bonner and also able to play some minutes at the 3 if needed. also we can start leonard at the 2. but he can also play minutes at the 3 still too.
PG- parker, mills, de colo
SG- leonard, manu, neal
SF- gay, leonard, greene
PF- duncan, diaw, greene
C- splitter, baynes, tyler
Last edited by palangi; 01-11-2013 at 02:39 PM.
Barry, Bowen, Finley, Green, Horry, Mohammed, Oberto, Robinson, Rose, Udrih, Vaughn
I'm not really understanding the hate for Green. He hits threes at a good percentage, hustles on defense(though isn't very good in general), and understands the system. Obviously, he still needs to improve his finishing around the rim as well as his D but he brings good value to the team considering his contract.
Do you know why they want to trade Gay?
i've heard it is for money relief. gay is making 16 million this year and 18 next.
Maybe you'll find a Barry or two.
Boy, I miss when there were other solid vets on the team besides the Big Three. It just felt awesome to have player like Horry, Bones and Bowen there. I hope players like Green, Splitter and Leonard eventually develop that much clout.
Yes - they're deep into lux tax this season and they want to get under the threshold. Nothing the Spurs could offer will help them achieve that.
To me, he's Danny Bonner. Great regular season player.
He's a bit of an overrated defender. ISO'd against point guards he's good, which comes in handy if he's on Paul or Lin to end a game. But you don't want him on pick and rolls. And he loses his man without the ball a lot. People think he's some super '3 & D' player but he's really a '3 & meh D'.
He's good in the regular season on offense. Great even. But I don't get why people are sooooo eager to downplay the OKC series. Did he shoot well against Utah and the Clippers? Yes. Did the Spurs need him to win? No. Did they need him against OKC? Yes. And he Bonner'd it. Stephen Jackson pukes all over himself in the regular season while shooting like garbage. But playoff time? He delivers. And he did it back when he was making scrub money too.
This isn't irrational hatred or some instance of familiarity contempt or ignoring his salary. But it is what it is. I'm not sold on Danny Bonner, like the le says. Trading him for Rudy Gay is ridiculous, but that doesn't really need to be said.
I love when a thread starts out with tons of crazy comments that make me question the quality of ST posters and then get a few objective, far better ones to restore my faith in the site.
Green is our 6th best player (at best) and very good one. He is good/great/elite in the 2 things we need from him, defense and 3pt shooting. Those who dismiss the first 2 series because they were not close shouldn't forget they were like that in part because of Green D and 3. IIRC he was the one harrasing CP3 all series long.
The reason I give him a pass is because players who everyone remember as being tough as nails in the playoffs often have their worst performances white washed from memory.
Bruce Bowen was awesome...but he shat the bed in the 2004 playoffs against the Lakers. He then hit the biggest shot in our 2007 postseason run.
Robert Horry shat the bed in that same series...but he hit arguably the biggest shot in franchise history the very next year.
One playoff series does not make Green a choker.
Bowen had already proven himself. Moreover, his 2004 series against the Lakers is where he shot twice as well as Green against OKC from behind the arc and played much better defense. In his Spur career Bowen never shot from 3 in the playoffs as low as Green did last year. Horry had proven himself in the past.
But I get what you're saying. However one bad, no, one incredibly awful playoff series where he had to be benched as his defense wasn't good enough to keep him on the floor when his shot was off or he wouldn't shoot . . . we don't have to ignore it. However, it might be harsh for me to label Green as Danny Bonner when his two series against Utah and the Clippers are arguably better than any series Bonner ever had.
What I'm saying is this, and it's completely reasonable: I don't trust Danny Green in the playoffs. I have no expectation that he will do any better the next time they're in a close series. If the rest of this board is convinced that Green is under-rated super-clutch and awesome with his Bowen-esque defense and will destroy OKC and the revamped Clippers and the Heat and whoever else, good for them. I'm not there yet. In the modified words of Coolio, I'll see U when I get there.
I think that, while you keep saying the opposite, nobody on here believes Danny Green is elite in any category. I don't trust him in the playoffs either, but I feel the same about every Spur not named Tony, Tim, or Manu. He is not the next Bruce Bowen. He's the next Danny Green. He's a good fit.
To me, not trusting in the playoffs = Not sold on him.
I do trust Kawhi. I'm buying it.
If brandon rush wasnt injured i would try to scam golden state for a rush for blair/green trade
Overpaid cancer.
While I think the Bonner tag is harsh, the above statement is reasonable. Green's offense is one-dimensional. It's a good dimension and it fits in the offense. The problem is that it's easily neutralized by any team that cares to do so. I don't see him as a choker, but his offense can be eliminated in a playoff series and his defense isn't good enough to make up for a zero at the other end.
I'd be happy to keep Green on the team for the price. I'm not sure we can trust him in the playoffs, but I'm confident it's not choking. Just look at his 3pt percentages through the season. He's ridiculously streaky. That's bad when he's cold, but can be awesome when he's hot. If DG had been on a cold streak in the first 2 playoff series last year, and got hot for the WCF, we could have had another ring. As it is, he got it the other way around, and we breezed through the first 2 rounds, and then the going got tough... His streakyness is only a problem if that becomes a pattern. Until then, give the kid a chance.
Sick of people calling Green a choker. Danny Green is the most consistent SG the Spurs have (Sorry Manu), It's amazing how quickly fans forget. He choked against OKC, Yes. But he also shot over 45% from three vs. Utah and LA. He played SOLID defense against Hayward/CP3, overall he steps up when Ginobili doesn't (which is more times than not, Unfortunately).
Look, his series vs. OKC was bad. Straight up horrid. But for a third year guard who just averaged 7.4mpg the two seasons prior, Can you blame him?
PS: Trade Green, Bonner, and Blair for Rudy Gay?
I think Green needs another chance. That was his first playoff experience. He briungs good defensive on the wing.
That's too harsh, IMO.
First of all, Bonner never has had a good playoff series -- whether he was "needed" or not -- so just based on that, Green has surpassed Bonner. Bonner has a long, painful history of choking that even can be traced to how he tails off at the end of the regular season. Green had one horrific series.
(And we shouldn't short-change how good he was in the first two series. He was averaging 10+ points in less than 25 MPG on 50% shooting from the floor and >45% shooting on three-pointers. His D was also much better than usual. Advanced stats, from plus/minus to APM to RAPM had Green as one of the best players on the whole team -- with many of those stats pointing to him as THE best player on the team. Yeah, easy compe ion but Green delivered to the maximum of his ability in the first two playoff series of his career. That's pretty darn good and should shed him of the Bonner label in itself.)
Why did Green suck* against the Thunder? I see three possibilities:
1. He choked. The pressure got to him and he couldn't withstand it.
2. He was due for some regression to the mean since he had been shooting damn near 50% on threes for the previous couple months.
3. He got unlucky and the randomness of the sport of basketball came up snake-eyes at the wrong time.
The only one of those three to be worried about is No. 1. And even then, we should only be partially worried because plenty of young players struggle early in their playoff career before adjusting to the pressure and learning to thrive. So, yeah, if we want to view Green in the worst possible light, then we can hold that series over him until he proves otherwise. IMO, what is more logical is to keep an open mind. Yes, it sucks he failed against the Thunder but there are a lot more explanations other than to say he's undoubtedly a choker.
As others have mentioned, plenty of Spurs have done poorly in their first time in the playoffs for the Spurs only to bounce back. Tony Parker destroyed Gary Payton as a rookie but he didn't carry that level of play throughout those playoffs. He, as CoM is quick to mention, had his ups and downs in 2003 ... yet he's definitely not in the Bonner category. Ginobili was up and down as a rookie in the playoffs (he shot 20-something percent in the Finals and wasn't that great against the Mavs or Suns) ... and he turned out to be the ultimate winner. , Tim Duncan wasn't that good in the Portland series in 1999.
Other examples: Stephen Jackson sucked in 2003 against the Lakers (if the Spurs lose that series, Jack would have been remembered as a choker rather than the clutch guy you remember). Bruce Bowen was terrible in his first playoff series with the Spurs (vs. the Sonics). Horry sucked in 2004. Claxton sucked for most of the 2003 playoffs. Kerr sucked every series until that Mavs series during his second stint with the Spurs.
You can go right down the line and just about every player on the Spurs has had a horrible series. Sometimes they were saved by their teammates so those series are forgotten. Sometimes they weren't saved and they are remembered as chokers. If the Spurs beat OKC and Green bouncing back against the Heat, he gets >$6M per year in free agency and is hailed as a hero ... pretty much just like Jack in 2003. It's fickle.
We need to be careful handing out Bonneritis claims. That's a serious diagnosis and one that should indicate that beyond all shadow of a doubt, a player is a choker for life and can only be trusted in the regular season. Maybe Green fits that bill but it's way too early to claim it as a certainty. One bad series does not a Bonner make.
*despite Green's sucking, the Spurs still outscored the Thunder when he was on the court during that series.
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