Ian Mahinmi looking pretty darn good tonight

[exstatic]

The point is that in the very post you quoted, I said that I wasn't comparing Ian to Bowen as defenders but illustrating the faults of going by PER.

But you ignored that, probably because you couldn't dispute the logic of my point about PER but still had to attack a strawman.

Thanks for admitting your position was a strawman.

PER is a VERY valid measure 99% of the time, and certainly is in Ian's case. He pretty much sucks, has sucked, and will suck. It isn't Pop, because he's never gotten any better in his other two stops.

[objective]

Thanks for admitting your position was a strawman.

PER is a VERY valid measure 99% of the time, and certainly is in Ian's case. He pretty much sucks, has sucked, and will suck. It isn't Pop, because he's never gotten any better in his other two stops.

The strawman is of your invention.

You made up an attack because you had nothing logical to respond with.

Ian's January PER is about 19 before tonight.

What will you say if Ian finishes the year with a PER of 15? Or post all-star break with 15? Or a month of 15?

[exstatic]

The strawman is of your invention.

You made up an attack because you had nothing logical to respond with.

Ian's January PER is about 19 before tonight.

What will you say if Ian finishes the year with a PER of 15? Or post all-star break with 15? Or a month of 15?

If he finished the year with a PER of 15, then for one year in his career, he was average. I don't really see it though. Using your link, I drilled in, and his PER has dropped as his minutes have grown, almost as a straight trend line. This year was the only exception. Both his minutes and his PER dropped.

[objective]

His minutes and PER are down for the season, but are actually improving. He did have a terrible start to the season which I broke down earlier in this thread.

For example, in January, 6 games:

20 mpg
7 pts
6.5 rebounds
56.25 fg%
2.7 fouls
17.9 PER

linear weight PER, a modified almost exact PER, link to formula

And that doesn't even cover how useful overall his defense has been if you asked Pacer fans.

So look at the progression:

minutes
NOV - 14.4
DEC - 17.6
JAN - 20.05

FG%
NOV - 38.6
DEC - 43.8
JAN - 56.25

Rebounds per 36, worse in DEC than NOV
NOV - 8.8
DEC - 7.2
JAN - 11.7

fouls per 36, worse in DEC than NOV
NOV - 5.16
DEC - 5.58
JAN - 4.8

Turnovers per 36
NOV - 2.5
DEC - 2.58
JAN - 0.9

On the season according to 82 games: Ian is -89 in plus/minus.
In January's 6 games, with 4 games against playoff teams: Ian is +42. The Pacers scoring for all those games is +27.

So he's playing more, shooting better, rebounding better, fouling less, turning the ball over less. For the third seed in the east. Will it continue? I don't know. But Pacer fans seem largely satisfied. Some maybe even overly optimistic with regards to his potential.

You once were certain that Ian was garbage and wasn't even a basketball player but just an athlete. Sounds like you still are, despite what he's done in his career. But you might be getting better, being able to grudgingly concede that an incredibly deceptive stat like PER, which can vastly under and over values players including undervaluing Bowen, could then convince you that Ian is better than you think. Albeit for one year, which you would then dismiss somehow.

So that's progress.

[objective]

just to add PER month to month, using the linear weighted PER:

OCT - 1 game, PER = -4.something. Negative 4. Awful.
NOV - 10.7 (15 games)
DEC - 11.3 (15 games)
JAN - 17.9 (6 games)

[Obstructed_View]

Since when do I not like Mahinmi? I was vocal in my support of Pop giving him a chance when he was here. I said it was dumb that the Spurs spent so much time and money on him yet never gave him even one fair opportunity to show what he could do. I pointed out the few times Mahinmi outplayed Splitter the few times they matched up. I did say the Pacers overpaid him in the summer -- and $16M over four years does look excessive for what they're getting.

And "no matter what he does" seems to indicate you think he's doing well. I can't agree with that. A bigman who is shooting 42% with an 11 PER while posting his highest turnover rate and a high foul rate is a below average backup center. It could be different if he were playing awesome defense ... but he's not.

Mahinmi, IMO, was worth around $5M over two years in the open market -- in other words, Aaron Gray type money. $16M was a massive overpayment and simply a case of poor scouting. He's pretty good but he's still raw and there's an upward climb for him to become an average backup center.

To compare, Robin Lopez got less than a third of what Mahinmi got in guaranteed money and is blowing him out of the water -- 56% shooting, 21 PER, less turnovers, less fouls, more blocks, etc.

To be fair to Mahinmi, it's not his fault that the Pacers were dumb. And it was far from the Pacers only dumb move. They also gave Gerald Green $10.5M after he had a few good 10-day contract stints on tanking teams. Swapping out Darren Collison for DJ Augustin has also basically been a bust. Hibbert and Hill are probably both overpaid, etc.

Anyways, tl;dr: I don't dislike Mahinmi. Pacers gave him too much money. He's been pretty bad so far but I think he can be an average backup center one day. Splitter is a much better player so I don't even know how to respond to that non sequitur, tbh.

Sorry for the late response, since you took the time to respond (not tl;dr).

I'm with you on everything that you said above, except that he had a good game and you didn't give him credit for it. You didn't give him credit for playing well even when he did when he was here. Do I think he's "doing well"? No. Do I think he "did well"? Yep. I remember that you and I both thought he could crack the rotation right away because the Spurs' bigs were so terrible. Obviously he's NEVER developed anything like anyone thought he would, and in retrospect the Spurs lost nothing letting him go, even as terrible as their frontline has been at times.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm sure OV is still hoping the light will come on for Mahinmi, even though Mahinmi doesn't appear to have a bulb.

Nope. He had a good game. Try to follow the point.

[will_spurs]

Amazing the hate there's on this forum for a guy who's just doing his job, especially given the bigs the Spurs have had in the last 5 years...

Mahinmi is a backup center and that's all there is to it. There's no point in comparing him with anybody else than another back-up center. And he's not responsible for the Pacers overpaying him, that's on the GM. Furthermore his contract isn't that horrid (although the trade certainly was), especially compared to Jerome James, Petro, Kwame and so on.

Right now Blair is filling the stats sheet more than Ian, but that's what Blair does. What he also does is being a traffic cone on D, which isn't Ian's case. Ian has always fouled too much but fouls aren't a very good measure anyway for an end of bench player who can be asked to foul by the coach.

All in all he's doing his job. He wouldn't be making the Spurs any better (especially since he never had a good relationship with Pop) so we can just all wish him well and leave it at that...