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Good list.
LOL at Pau at 7 ...Never saw Hayes or Pe but pretty sure the big E in his peak was a better player than Pau. Pau vs. Cwebb is interesting. Despite PAu's great skill-set not sure P{au is better but rings matter a lot to me ... and PAu was the second option on 3 Finals teams winning two.
Not sure how Malone gets the nod over Tim for some people. But if we consider Duncan a center that is amuch more interesting debate I give him the slight edge on Shaq ... behind Kareem out of guys I have seen.
Good list.
This again?Elite super role player?
His hoops IQ is high. He could score, but why should he even try to go 20/10 with teammates like Zeke, Joe Dumars, MJ, and Pippen? Don't get me wrong, he didn't have 20/10 type offensive game, but to say he was useless on that side of the floor is agenda laced IMO.
I put KG over _irk and Barkley because he was an elite defender in his prime and could basically give you 20/10. He also is a one time winner like _irk. So I'm not sure how you can say _irk is better tbh. Give me KG's career over _irk's 24/7 tbh.
Everyone does it (place more importance on offense than defense). The great role player (aka Bill Russell) was one of the best defenders of all time and one of the best rebounders of all time. In other words he was an elite defensive anchor - and he won more times than MJ ever did. Yet MJ is considered GOAT. Why is that? Because he avg 30 ppg for his career and did it with SportsCenter worthy style.
Malone was a victim of playing in the MJ era. If the refs call the MJ pushoff of Russell, who knows, maybe Mailman has one ring. Game 7 would have been in Salt Lake where I give them a great chance of beating the Bulls. They would have been the Utah Thunderefs in det one.
Malone is a .463 career playoff shooter, down 53 percentage points from his regular season career shooting average of .516. I can't think of any other top 15 all-time great that's had such a drop-off.
Malone was a choker, plain and simple.
Kids today.
How many players on this list ever scored 40+ points and pulled down 20+ rebounds in a single game in the finals?
How many players on this list ever scored 40+ points and pulled down 20+ rebounds in a single game in the conference finals?
How many players on this list ever scored 56 points in a playoff game?
How many players on this list ever led the league in triple doubles?
The answer to all of these questions is: ONE. And that player is always Charles Barkley.
Picking Duncan over Barkley is excusable considering "he" won championships and Barkley's teams always came up short. But putting Dirk ahead of him is beyond ing stupid. Barkley was a better scorer, rebounder, passer, shot blocker and just better basketball player.
This Dirk over KG nonsense confuses me. It's like people forget that defense is half the game, and that prime KG's offense matches anything Dirk did. He pretty much played point guard and power forward simultaneously. They both have 1 ring. While KG did team up with Pierce/Ray, he was still the defensive anchor of that team and absolutely dominated Pau which keyed that le imo. Still, Dirk had a lot of help on that roster, although I'll give him all the respect for that playoff run. He was a man possessed. But having Chandler/Marion as defensive stalwarts really keyed the Miami series. Plus he had guys like Kidd, Terry
Putting Karl Malone ahead of Barkley is also beyond in' stupid.
1. Duncan (the best player of 4 'ship teams, was unstoppable earlier in his career, no flaws in his game does everything well, great consistency)
2. Dirk (won 1, one finals - as the man, unstoppable scorer, good rebounder, great consistency)
3. Malone (two finals as Jazz best player, great consistency, good rebounder, solid defense, solid passing)
4. KG (won 1 and one finals but most would say Pierce is the C's best player, great defense and consistency, great all around game)
5. Barkley (made it once to the finals as the best Suns player, did everything great, scoring, passing, rebounding, lacked supporting cast, not a good defense)
6. McHale (won 3 'ships with Bird, great low post skills, great defense and rebounder, seldom passed the ball back)
I agree though a ty defender compared to Tim, KG and Malone he was not the choker Malone was. Chuck should only be behind Tim and MAYBE KG ...KG also had some choke games but I give the nod for his defensive versatility ...but I could see Chuck at 2 or 3 ...
I love Dirk and his 2011 run was amazing ...but #2?!! GTFO
How so? ESPN listed 10 players. Fans are voting. ESPN didn't create the list dumbass, just supplied the names.
I think each ring is exponentially less important than the last. Honestly, I don't say MJ>Kobe because 6>5. There's all sorts of reasons. Even if Kobe rings a 6th time, I wouldnt put him up there with MJ. I think once you win it 2-3 times, you've proven yourself plenty. Look at the NFL, for example. Marino is excluded off every "GOAT" qb list because he never won. Peyton has 1 superbowl win, and people are glad to put him up there with the all time greats. People will say Elway > Brady even though Elway has 2 and Brady has 3. Winning the first is the big one, which is what guys like Dirk, Pierce, KG, Bron (currently have) that validates themselves. Winning again just goes to show it wasn't a 1 year fluke. But once you already have multiple rings, your point has been proven.
Its like, winning a game by 1 says you squeaked out, but bettered them. Winning by 10 says you had a comfy win. But is there a big difference between winning by 30 or winning by 40?
A part from Duncan, what PF had/has a better career?
KG, Chuck, Malone all have cases ...I
MJ did not need 6 to be greater than Kobe, but hee needed those to surpass Jabbar, Russell and Magic ...
I get your point you only need one to validate greatness but to seperate the best of the best rings DO matter
No, they don't.
Show me another power forward who could ever do this:
Of course, that was the second time he did it....that series. He had 43 points and 15 rebound in game 5 of that series:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...306010PHO.html
I understand that at the end of the day these players are judged on "championships", but teams win championships, individual players dont.
Charles Barkley is easily the greatest power forward of all time and third in "forwards" overall behind Larry Bird and Lebron James.
Duncan's near quad-dub in the 2003 finals about equally impressive. No doubt Barkley is an all time great though.
FIFYMalone was a victim of playing in the MJ era. If Malone wasn't a got who got stripped on the baseline and then fell over at the end of game 6, maybe Mailman has one ring. Game 7 would have been in Salt Lake where I give them a great chance of beating the Bulls. They would have been the Utah Thunderefs in det one.
I Like Bron, but not sure you can give hin edge over Chuck or Tim just yet ...
I do think Lebron will potentially pass them all ... but he is not there yet
Chuck was a beast I would give him the edge over Dirk, easily. I do like defense so KG and Duncan are tough to take Chuck over but I can see your point Suns fan ... but les do matter to me wgen the players are close.
It's fairly obvious who watched ball during the 90's and who didn't. Barkley may be some entertainer on TNT that used to play ball to some of you, but that guy who used to play ball was one of the best players to ever step on the hardwood despite having SG height at the PF position. No one can truly appreciate just how beastly Barkley was unless you watched him live.
He's no lower than top three.
Agreed. Great post.
Pau didn't take Kobe to the Finals. How could you say that when he couldn't even garner 1 win (0-12) before Kobe took him in? And Kobe couldn't get past the Suns because Nash (MVP) >>>> Smush Parker, Amare >>>> Kwame, and the rest of their team was collectively better than our one man gang: Kobe. Even if he would drop 50 on them, it wasn't enough.
Shawn Kemp
Riley makes some good comments there about Barkley, at the end.
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