Barkley will be the first one to tell you he didnt play defense. He once said the Suns would have to double his salary if they wanted him to play defense.And no amount of citing "big games" is ever going to change the fact Barkley was a terrible defender who lost John Paxson on the perimeter. Most of your fellow Suns fans have accepted the fact that Barkley was a stat padding choker and didn't spoil us with the great defense and clutch performances that Duncan, Hakeem, and Shaq spoiled us with.
BTW,
Jared Dudley>Melo
But calling him a stat padder shows how butt-hurt you are.
I dont care bro. Fine, hes a stat padder. It was still awesome watching him put up 40 points and 20 rebounds (something Duncan NEVER did). He was just a different type of talent. Duncan is really tall and has great fundamentals but Barkley was just soooooo freakishly gifted.
Got to get over it bro.
Umm..I said it before Jefferson ever played a game for the Spurs..this has been WELL do ented:Way to go out on a limb there, big guy
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138218
And if you dont think the idea of dropping Shaq for NOTHING was unpopular, just ask your fellow clown "DuncanOwnsKobe".
Im usually unpopular..im usually right.
Thank you. Glad you finally come to that realization.
wow the stupidity in this thread is outstanding (quietly steps out)
I was told "Only a Suns fan could see a negative in the Richard Jefferson trade" by countless Spurs fans.
I was told "Shaq was the Suns best player last year (ONLY Sun to make the all-star team that year)".
Now, I was told that Carmelo Anthony was a top-tier talent and NOT just a "volume shooter" who didnt do ANYTHING for his team if he wasnt scoring.
Stat padder all the way...he was never boring tho!
Half the fans in the NBA have said that about Anthony
OP has never countered my points about his precious WoS stats, he stopped replying to me in that thread..he's oblivious to the fact that virtually every credible advanced stat user has disowned the WoS formulas/numbers
He also stopped replying to me in the Barkley-Duncan thread, picking and choosing arguments from other posters to reply to, tbh
I've never been a Carmelo fan, but the premise of this thread is ironic as ..OP is mocking Anthony being on all-NBA, yet he had the following players on his all-NBA teams:
- Tyson Chandler
- Kenneth Faried
- Paul George
Paul George has had 1 efficient offensive game out of the 5 so far, but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt, since he has been rebounding well(which is essentially a foundation for WoS numbers)..
Tyson Chandler has been horrendous all series, and Faried has been a non-factor in 4 of the 5 games, too..
If you're going to make a thread boasting about not having Carmelo on your all-NBA teams, you should probably acknowledge your horrible selections, tbh
That wasn't your original statement in the post I referenced. You stated, "The Suns would be better without Shaq," which isn't a controversial take at all, considering Shaq's age at the time and the high-tempo the Suns played at. "Dropping him for nothing," implies something totally different, and considering Shaq's contract and trade value at the time, is pretty much stating the obvious.
A lot of people thought Jefferson wouldn't fit with the Spurs. Of course upstairs would overrate him, since there tends to be more homers posting there, but any reasonable basketball fan knew Jefferson might not gel with a defensive minded, down tempo team (which the Spurs still were at the time of his acquisition).
Your takes are nothing extraordinary, and the controversial takes you do have typically veer toward the re ed rather than the insightful.
Doin' work.Half the fans in the NBA have said that about Anthony
OP has never countered my points about his precious WoS stats, he stopped replying to me in that thread..he's oblivious to the fact that virtually every credible advanced stat user has disowned the WoS formulas/numbers
He also stopped replying to me in the Barkley-Duncan thread, picking and choosing arguments from other posters to reply to, tbh
I've never been a Carmelo fan, but the premise of this thread is ironic as ..OP is mocking Anthony being on all-NBA, yet he had the following players on his all-NBA teams:
- Tyson Chandler
- Kenneth Faried
- Paul George
Paul George has had 1 efficient offensive game out of the 5 so far, but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt, since he has been rebounding well(which is essentially a foundation for WoS numbers)..
Tyson Chandler has been horrendous all series, and Faried has been a non-factor in 4 of the 5 games, too..
If you're going to make a thread boasting about not having Carmelo on your all-NBA teams, you should probably acknowledge your horrible selections, tbh
Name one. Show me a post on this forum. Heres what HATER had to say about Richard Jefferson in October 2009:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=136257&page=2he is a near allstar, can create his own plays, can defend the bigger guards/SF, can score 20ppg and shoots 40%+ from 3.
yeah, he does not fit our needs at all
BOOM-SHACKA-LACKA!!!!
Name one. Show me a post on this forum. Heres what HATER had to say about Richard Jefferson in October 2009:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=136257&page=2
BOOM-SHACKA-LACKA!!!!Referencing hater
Some takes from Spurs fans angry at me for calling the Jefferson trade a mistake:
he is a near allstar, can create his own plays, can defend the bigger guards/SF, can score 20ppg and shoots 40%+ from 3.
yeah, he does not fit our needs at allJust the typical Im used to dealing with. Im the bringer of truth.So Suns fan, if you think you are so smart, why aren't you working in some front office somewhere?! Like I mentioned before, Spurs weren't winning with the roster they had last year, even Pop admitted it. But now all the players including coach Pop are feeling good about their chances.... however you being the armchair GM think you know better?! You sound like a closet bandwagon Lakers fan, I guess it still hurts 2 years later huh?!
Anthony wouldn't have to shoot as much if 1st team all-NBAer Tyson Chandler could make a hook shot or create a shot for himself, tbh
Im not pick and choosing...im usually arguing with five or more posters at once (who all claim im wrong). I cant respond to everyone.Anthony wouldn't have to shoot as much if 1st team all-NBAer Tyson Chandle I could make a hook shot or create a shot for himself, tbh
Of course, what you havent explained is why wages of wins (i dont know why you keep saying WOS) is so freaking accurate.
THEY SAY Spurs should have won 57.8 games (based off their formula). The Spurs won 58.
http://www.thenbageek.com/teams/sas
Theyre usually not THAT accurate but theyre usually within +/- 2. And remember, their formula says Carmelo anthony sucks and Jared Dudley, Kenneth Faried, Kawhi Leonard, Tyson Chandler etc. are very good.
ITs just idiots like you are too pre-occupied with "Creating your own shot".
Melo created a lot of shots for himself tonight. They just didnt go in.
Da Suns Fan also doesn't understand the concept of certain players having multiple responsibilities on their team, rather than just scoring or rebounding or passing, tbh
Da Suns Fan also doesn't understand the concept of certain players having multiple responsibilities on their team, rather than just scoring or rebounding or passing, tbh
I honestly have no clue what to make of this one. Please explain why you think i dont value rebounding/passing yet think also im dumb because tyson chandler cant get his own shot off.
Self-ownage.
They also claim that the Lakers supporting cast was more important than Shaq and Kobe in 2001..
The numbers also had Ramon Sessions as the best PG in the NBA one of the years, and Camby as the #2 overall player in one of the years IIRC..
I said you don't value players that have more responsibility on their teams, such as Carmelo needing to carry the load, and the fact that you dismissed that Duncan has to score/anchor a D/rebound, while Barkley didn't have to play defense at all..
You ignore the fact Tyson Chandler has no offensive responsibility, and Faried's only responsibility is rebounding/hustling, tbh..
No they didnt. They looked at playoff stats and said either Shaq or Kobe was number one (in the playoffs) in 2000 and 2001 respectively and Horry was the best in 2002. Considering that was the year he hit that miracle shot against the Kings, Im not THAT surprised. Horry had a great playoffs that year.
So youre creating an excuse that Duncan doesnt score a lot of points because he plays defense. I dont care, Ive heard so many excuses ive seriously lost count. Hakeem played defense and scored much more and at a better percentage than Duncan so suck on that.
And if Chandler/Faried have such few responsibilities, why arent other players in the league capable of duplicating their success? Its the "low usage myth". I refer you, again, to the nba geeks article which directly answers your questions on Tyson Chandler and others:
http://www.thenbageek.com/articles/a-low-usage-myth
I think ive sufficiently owned Harlem Heat with that latest take.
Anyone else?
To sum up the low usage myth (for those to lazy to click the link):
So it turns out that "only shooting when you have a really good shot" or "only shooting when you have a layup or dunk" isn't really a recipe for success. It's not like Brendan Haywood and Ronny Turiaf didn't get the memo. It's more likely that they simply do not have the skills (or talents, I'm not going to start a nature-vs-nurture argument here) that Tyson Chandler has.
It turns out that just getting yourself a few dunks and layups per game is hard. And please don't argue that it's easy for Chandler because he plays with Melo. Take another look at this list. Kendrick Perkins also has a pretty good teammate getting lots of attention. Ronny Turiaf and Chris Duhan play with Kobe. Lamar Odom can't seem to hit a shot anymore even though he plays with Chris Paul.
One of the most famous duos is that of Shaq and Kobe. They powered the Lakers back to prominence. The fact that personal issues shoved Shaq out a few years to early is one of the many pains felt by Laker fans, especially as Shaq would win a ring with another dynamic shooting guard in 2006. Except, the contributions of both Shaq and Kobe are overstated, by a lot! Let’s go back through our the Phil Jackson Laker les and show what I mean.
I’ve listed all players that put up more wins that Kobe and Shaq in either the regular season or the playoffs. In the regular season the start of the Lakers Kobe-Shaq dynasty was indeed the Kobe and Shaq show. Of course, Shaq was much better than Kobe and Kobe was pretty good himself. The playoffs were a different story. While Shaq kept up his insane play, Kobe dropped from being the second best player on the team and dropped below the likes of Ron Harper and Robert Horry in terms of helping the team win. And it’s worth noting that Kobe’s playoff production was actually below average!The regular season dynamic kept up. Shaq shouldered most of the load. Kobe was a solid second. We do notice that Shaq slipped a little from his prior dominance. The playoffs is where we have to adjust our dials. Kobe was the best Laker on route to their back to back. However, Derek Fisher outplayed Shaq! Read that again. In Shaq’s second le, his performance was below Derek Fisher’s! And Derek Fisher definitely showed an amazing difference. In the 2001 regular season, Fisher was average. In the playoffs? He played over twice as good as an average player! The reason is surprisingly simple. Fisher shot over 50% from beyond the arc and had a true shooting of almost 70% for the whole playoffs! While Shaq certainly can take credit for getting the Lakers to the playoffs and definitely contributed to their second playoff run, Bryant and Fisher were the top dogs this go around.Robert Horry! You read that right. Robert Horry overall strong production anchored the final run for Shaq and Kobe. Shaq was still a strong contributor but not top dog. And while he was top four in total wins, it turns out that Kobe’s playoff production was again below average!If we merely examine the regular season of the Lakers during the Kobe-Shaq era then a very familiar narrative is told. Shaq was an amazing player and Kobe was an excellent sidekick. As the years went on, Shaq declined and Kobe improved until their sad inevitable breakup. But, we know the playoffs are the irrational test we use to define greatness. And here is where the Shaq and Kobe myth crumbles. Shaq was only the top Laker in one of the Lakers’ three les. Kobe was only a solid contributor in one of the three runs. To be fair, he was the best Laker in that run. And the “role players” of Fisher, Horry and Fox? Yeah, it turns out they were huge “when it mattered”. I can’t tell you how hilarious that is to write. The key we should all note is that the playoffs are very limited number of games. Over 20 games any NBA player can have a great run. Even greats can slump. The playoffs are a great place to find narratives, but may not be the best place to find statistical absolutes. And all I can say is when we examine the Shaq and Kobe playoffs narrative? Well, the numbers don’t back it up.
Harlem's blasting your ass pretty good.
Your only "counterargument" is spamming NBAGeek articles.
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