Teachers

[tlongII]

That would be awesome, thank you. I would prefer to know for sure, so that I can have as realistic and comprehensive grasp on it as I can. Better information = better decisions.

It may not be MY state's ERS, but all states pretty much have similar systems, and it is a huge potential liability collectively in the US. More than many would guess at.

The attached link gives a good explanation of the situation we're in. It is not an op ed piece so I think you can trust it. It appears the return was guaranteed at one time, but may not be now. Let me know what you think.

http://www.oregonbusinessplan.org/In...Classroom.aspx

[RandomGuy]

The attached link gives a good explanation of the situation we're in. It is not an op ed piece so I think you can trust it. It appears the return was guaranteed at one time, but may not be now. Let me know what you think.

http://www.oregonbusinessplan.org/In...Classroom.aspx

Thanks.

I think the "guaranteed" rate is indeed gauranteed, now that I can get some actual better reading, although the link you gave didn't give a source solid enough to confirm it, it seems measured and careful enough that I can safely assume they are accurate in the use of that word.

That said:
Average 42 year rate of return on their invested assets:
10.32%

pg 14, data table
http://www.oregon.gov/pers/docs/gene...bers9-2012.pdf

If your long term average is 2.3% higher than the guaranteed rate of increase, that would not seem to be a long term problem.

THAT said, the business plan's proposals are spot on. They all need to be enacted, IMO.

Thanks again for giving me enough good information for me to get there, and apologies for me getting a bit huffy.



When considering this, the big ticket item that should be focused on is the UAL, or Unfunded Actuarial Liability. That is the bottom-line current year shortfall, and it determines how much the public will have to pony up, through their cities and state taxes.

In this case, the beneficiaries need to bear a bit more of the burden than they are currently required to, and that is more than reasonable.

Lastly:
The benefits aren't quite as generous as have been portrayed here. The annuities seem to be based on average working salary, which includes a lot of years of entry-level and time-eroded pay.

See page 7 of the above linked pdf.

It isn't the last year high salary on which your annuity is based. The average annuity pays out 74% (currently) of that last years pay. So the 53,000/yr employee generally would get 74% of that. Further, the plan projects that to fall down to the target of 50% over time Still further, newer employees hired after 2003 are already bearing more of the cost and market risk.

Reform is needed, but it isn't as bad as some might think. Needs improvement, but not terminal, IMO.

[RandomGuy]

When considering this, the big ticket item that should be focused on is the UAL, or Unfunded Actuarial Liability. That is the bottom-line current year shortfall, and it determines how much the public will have to pony up, through their cities and state taxes.

A final note:

There is a limiting mechanism built in to the system that limits any required extra contributions due to this UAL from cities and so forth, called a "collar", it limits increases to a certain amount, recalculated every two years. This functions as a smoothing mechanism to allow the market itself time to correct and fill in gaps BEFORE goverments must add money.

The UAL is pretty substantial in 2012, owing to the BIG hit the fund took in the financial crisis. It will be smaller in 2013, simply due to the good returns on stocks in the last couple of years.

Keep an eye on it though, because equities will get pretty sluggish once the Fed stops buying bonds and allows the first small rises in interest rates as the economy recovers.

[Wild Cobra]

The high cost of teacher turnover would imply that not many of them find the salary all that compelling.

Most first year teachers have higher "dropout" rates than their students and aren't teaching in the same school 4 years later, and many just aren't even staying in the profession.

http://nctaf.org/wp-content/uploads/...licy-brief.pdf

We could save money by paying them more.

Suck on that.

Economically that implies they are underpaid for their level of education.

I went to see what this link said. You wonder why I never believe a word you liars say. Don;'t you follow up on your source links for accuracy, or do you like their lies?

Your link:

In 1999, in the School District of Philadelphia, 919
new teachers began teaching and 12,000 students
began ninth grade. Six years later, 58% of those
students had graduated from high school, but only
30% of those new teachers were still teaching in
Philadelphia.

Do you know what mobility is? My God head.... These people, like any other, get their first teaching job wherever they can. They they move to a better location when a slot becomes available for them. According to the US Department of Education, teachers who leave the profession during their first three years is about 8.5%. About 6.5% for teachers with 4-9 years of experience. The numbers are 13.3% and 10.2% for those moving. I would suggest your Teacher Activist link cherry picked the higher number (outlier) data.

I don't see that notable any worse than any other profession.

Then in a later post, you agree with the 8% guaranteed PERS rate...

And you call me a troll for calling you guys out on your lies...

[boutons_deux]

TX teachers have about the same average career as NFL players: 5 years.

low entry standards, ty pay, high stress, demonized and slandered by TX Repugs as over-paid, coddled, ty teachers and union members, etc, etc, etc.

[TeyshaBlue]

I went to see what this link said. You wonder why I never believe a word you liars say. Don;'t you follow up on your source links for accuracy, or do you like their lies?

Your link:



Do you know what mobility is? My God head.... These people, like any other, get their first teaching job wherever they can. They they move to a better location when a slot becomes available for them. According to the US Department of Education, teachers who leave the profession during their first three years is about 8.5%. About 6.5% for teachers with 4-9 years of experience. The numbers are 13.3% and 10.2% for those moving. I would suggest your Teacher Activist link cherry picked the higher number (outlier) data.

I don't see that notable any worse than any other profession.

Then in a later post, you agree with the 8% guaranteed PERS rate...

And you call me a troll for calling you guys out on your lies...

From the same link: "The monetary loss for many schools impacts already stretched budgets and adds to the hiring struggles of school leaders. The problem is most acute in the nation’s high minority, high poverty, and low performing schools. Because 46% of all new teachers in the United States leave the profession within five years, NCTAF says leaders of at-risk schools are in a constant cycle of rebuilding their staff."

And you wonder why we think you are a ing idiot.

[TeyshaBlue]

TX teachers have about the same average career as NFL players: 5 years.

low entry standards, ty pay, high stress, demonized and slandered by TX Repugs as over-paid, coddled, ty teachers and union members, etc, etc, etc.

Leave your moonbat narrative at home little fella, and talk like a ing grown up.

[TeyshaBlue]

"Don;'t (sic)you follow up on your source links for accuracy, or do you like their lies?"

I'm dying of an overdose of Vitamin I.

[TeyshaBlue]

Five Reasons Teacher Turnover Is on the Rise

http://www.takepart.com/article/2011...-turnover-rise

[George Gervin's Afro]

Five Reasons Teacher Turnover Is on the Rise

http://www.takepart.com/article/2011...-turnover-rise

Money and respect are only two things quality educators want more of.

Well they would get neither from WC.. they are incompetent or stupid...

[Wild Cobra]

From the same link: "The monetary loss for many schools impacts already stretched budgets and adds to the hiring struggles of school leaders. The problem is most acute in the nation’s high minority, high poverty, and low performing schools. Because 46% of all new teachers in the United States leave the profession within five years, NCTAF says leaders of at-risk schools are in a constant cycle of rebuilding their staff."

And you wonder why we think you are a ing idiot.

Liar.

That's not in Random's link.

[TeyshaBlue]

It's from a link in RG's link, dolt.

[TeyshaBlue]

But, go ahead and ignore that "46% of all new teachers in the United States leave the profession within five years" while you start your obfuscation shuffle. ing moron.

[TeyshaBlue]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...ublic-schools/

[leemajors]

[Wild Cobra]

TB...

Those high numbers I find are turnover rates at individual schools. Not leaving the profession. Many of them are just moving to a different school in the same district even, but are counted as a turnover..

[TeyshaBlue]

So WC, which are you? Incompetent, or stupid?

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...ublic-schools/

Yes, I found that when I searched part of the sentence you quoted.

Where is the Forbes source for that info?

Funny how the NEA information differs...

[TeyshaBlue]

That' 46% figure is dissected here;

http://shankerblog.org/?p=4534

[TeyshaBlue]

I am debating downhill with you, WC. You haven't even approached the curve I passed 15 years ago.

[TeyshaBlue]

btw, you haven't even sniffed making a case for teachers being overcompensated, incompetent or stupid.

[TeyshaBlue]

Mother in' hat trick.

[Wild Cobra]

I am debating downhill with you, WC. You haven't even approached the curve I passed 15 years ago.

In your dreams.

You post a blog... As evidence... No good solid links...

Why no NEA links?

Also...

How many of these are part time activities while still finishing school, or part time unable to get full time? How many are "let go" rather than leave on their own?

I took Randoms links and searched the footnotes and dispelled what he said about the link. Then you say "in the same ink" and it was a Forbes link instead, with no source listed...

You have the ignorance to think you are in my league?

LOL...

LOL...

LOL...

LOL...

[Wild Cobra]

btw, you haven't even sniffed making a case for teachers being overcompensated, incompetent or stupid.

Yes I did.

Supply and demand.

[George Gervin's Afro]

Yes I did.

Supply and demand.

you do realize the govt pays them..don't you?

so if they want more money (higher taxes). are you willing to pay more in taxes?