"The Big 3"

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Green is clearly better than Manu at this point, although his role is easier, obviously..

Splitter vs. Manu is a toss-up, tbh..

I'm not even a Manu hater, I've been defending him lately, I just don't see how he can be considered better than Green at this point, tbh..

Dear God.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Green is a much better defender, as well..

Obviously as an overall basketball player, Manu s on Green, but Danny's shooting + defense has more of an impact than Manu's game does in any facet, at this point..

This is a CONTRADICTION by any stretch of the imagination now is it??? WTF are you talking about??? Read what you just typed, seriously! Just stop already!

[Kidd K]

It never has until this postseason. I don't think I will ever forgive him until he retires unless he (and this won't happen) suddenly has a great postseason this next year and we win the le with Manu saving us a few times while not shooting us in the foot even more times.

But yeah, um, Belinelli isn't better than Ginobili. You guys are going to be disappointed in him if you expect him to be anything other than the white Gary Neal who's slower but bigger. Worse shooter but not dumb as rocks on defense. . .but pretty close. Dude was tied for worst defensive player on the Bulls (with Rip who was battling injuries all year). We ain't exactly getting an all star. At best that's a lateral move.

I don't think I'm ready to say Green is better than Ginobili, but he was better in the Finals. Unless Ginobili regresses more, we can't claim Green's above him. Now, on a cash to production basis, Green is better. But from just a production standpoint he's not there yet. He will never be what Ginobili was, but he is and will be a good role player for years which I like.

Kawhi on the other hand, is easily better than Manu now. He's the 3rd part of the big 3. Manu is 4.

[KL2]

Naah.. Manu is a better defender, still. Better at post-defense and perhaps even one-on-one defense. Uncanny at stealing/swiping the ball away, possibly Top 3 gamblers in the guard category and better help defender.

Green is more athletic at this point, was fantastic as a transition defender this season but still mistake prone (so is Manu but he compensates more and gives up less).

Green's defense s all over Manu's lmao.

[Diego20]

So Manu would have stopped Lebron on the break as much as DG did?

DG Did not stop Lebron, it was Leonard lol

[Chinook]

DG Did not stop Lebron, it was Leonard lol

Leonard was terrible in transition all series. It was Green or no one getting back. Stop giving Kawhi credit for things he didn't do. What he did was impressive enough.

[Chinook]

Naah.. Manu is a better defender, still. Better at post-defense and perhaps even one-on-one defense. Uncanny at stealing/swiping the ball away, possibly Top 3 gamblers in the guard category and better help defender.

Green is more athletic at this point, was fantastic as a transition defender this season but still mistake prone (so is Manu but he compensates more and gives up less).

Ginobili is not a better defender than Green. Manu can only guard slower players who rely on post-ups. Green can guard three positions legitimately, and he was more than competent in the post. Ginobili is not a great help defender anymore; his gambles often lead to fouls. Green gambles usually lead to steals and blocks because he's one of the best players in the league at anticipating what the opponent is going to do.

A team with Ginobili as the primary guard defender would be worse than one with Green playing that role. There are way more Currys, Ellises and Pauls in the league than there are Andre Millers and Dwyane Wades.

[Spursfanfromafar]

Ginobili is not a better defender than Green. Manu can only guard slower players who rely on post-ups. Green can guard three positions legitimately, and he was more than competent in the post. Ginobili is not a great help defender anymore; his gambles often lead to fouls. Green gambles usually lead to steals and blocks because he's one of the best players in the league at anticipating what the opponent is going to do.

A team with Ginobili as the primary guard defender would be worse than one with Green playing that role. There are way more Currys, Ellises and Pauls in the league than there are Andre Millers and Dwyane Wades.

I dont disagree that Green is a good defender.

But objectively, Ginobili is better.

Check 82games.com for statistical information for e.g. -

Opposing SGs have a PER of 12.7 against Green and a PER of 11.4 against Ginobili. Opposing SFs have a PER of 13.0 against Green and 13.8 against Ginobili. +/- stats also favour Ginobili over Green. One mitigating factor is that Ginobili plays a lot against bench players, but it is also important he is always on the floor in crunch time defending starters.

[Chinook]

I dont disagree that Green is a good defender.

But objectively, Ginobili is better.

Check 82games.com for statistical information for e.g. -

Opposing SGs have a PER of 12.7 against Green and a PER of 11.4 against Ginobili. Opposing SFs have a PER of 13.0 against Green and 13.8 against Ginobili. +/- stats also favour Ginobili over Green. One mitigating factor is that Ginobili plays a lot against bench players, but it is also important he is always on the floor in crunch time defending starters.

82games has major flaws. The biggest in this case is that they don't account for cross-matches. So the fact that Green's an excellent point-guard defender gets ignored, or in the case misguidedly denied, because they only counted his numbers when he was the offensive point-guard. Also mitigating the numbers is that Green usually defends the first- or second-best scorer on the other team. Even in crunch time, Ginobili has Leonard and/or Green there to defend better players.

[Diego20]

Leonard was terrible in transition all series. It was Green or no one getting back. Stop giving Kawhi credit for things he didn't do. What he did was impressive enough.

Are you sure about who is Leonard and who is Green? I mean, the taller one is LEONARD LOL.

Go ahead and read

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/2...onards-defense

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...inals/2402135/

[Chinook]

Are you sure about who is Leonard and who is Green? I mean, the taller one is LEONARD LOL.

Go ahead and read

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/2...onards-defense

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...inals/2402135/

You misread the person you quoted in your initial post in this thread. They said that Ginobili couldn't stop James on the break the way Green did.

So Manu would have stopped Lebron on the break as much as DG did?

You said that Leonard stopped him (on the break), which he didn't.

DG Did not stop Lebron, it was Leonard lol

Green got back and made about 10 fantastic plays in transition, while Leonard almost always lost his man (which is why Green had to pick up James in the first place, and why James was able to dump off to Wade a couple of times after Leonard missed the switch). You're confusing Leonard's great individual defense on James with his transitional defense, which was poor.

[Diego20]

You misread the person you quoted in your initial post in this thread. They said that Ginobili couldn't stop James on the break the way Green did. You said that Leonard stopped him (on the break), which he didn't. Green got back and made about 10 fantastic plays in transition, while Leonard almost always lost his man (which is why Green had to pick up James in the first place, and why James was able to dump off to Wade a couple of times after Leonard missed the switch). You're confusing Leonard's great individual defense on James with his transitional defense, which was poor.

I dont know why they said that, because clearly Green did not stop him. Leonard was guarding Lebron the entire finals.

[Chinook]

I dont know why they said that, because clearly Green did not stop him. Leonard was guarding Lebron the entire finals.

Literally, you don't understand what the person is talking about. Besides the fact that Green actually did guard James a good deal one-on-one in the half court (as much as any Spur actually guarded him one-on-one, at least) and did a good job at it, we're talking about transition defense here. So when the Heat got a turnover or rebound and sprinted down the floor. Leonard didn't have the speed to keep up with James, but Green (who's probably the best player in the league at defending the fast break) did. He would pick up James and more often than not disrupt the play. For example:



Or this:



Those were huge plays that very few players in the league could make. It's disingenuous to try to give credit for those to Leonard. Kawhi deserves praise for stopping James in the half court. But Green was the one who stopped him in the full court.

[Taking it to the Hole]

Agreeing with what ElNono said earlier in the thread, The "Big 3" is just a label that the media has tried to designate to TD, TP, and Manu. You think those three guys roll around town spouting to everyone that they are a member of the Big 3? They may be individuals but they certainly don't think of themselves as all that. If there are two qualities that permeate through the Spurs, it is selflessness and humility. They have always said it takes a team to win and that is why we didn't win the championship because they rise and fall as a team. Manu has and always will be a valuable member of the team because he gives an intangible factor to the team. To write him off after one subpar post-season is extremely unfair to him.

[SpurSwag]

It amazes me, a guy can do so much for the team, be a HOF lock, win multiple rings with us. Then we have assholes like you who dog him nonstop. Then again, then again, after 2011 half of you in morons where begging for Tim Duncan to retire, wanted the front office to trade him, then when he got his new deal, you ed that Tim had just condemned us to mediocrity. Stop in posting. Better yet, go hop on the Miami Heat's bandwagon you piece of no class losers. Getting old is a natural progression. I'm happy we had Manu when he was one of the top players in the world, and I'm beyond proud he will end his career a Spur when he could have left for more money, and 35 minutes a night. He could have dropped 25 points a night and been a superstar, but he was loyal to the team that drafted him. , how ever did we get stuck with a guy like Manu???

Couldnt agree more, the lack of loyalty and appreciation on this board is mind blowing. I don't think I've ever encountered more spoiled, unappreciative fans. This certainly doesn't apply to everyone, but how are you guys hating on a player who wears his heart on his sleeve every night and just couldn't perform for whatever reason. No one in spurs history has had the passion this guy does. Stop using manu as a scapegoat, the dude gave us his all and we just came up short

[ChumpDumper]

I dont know why they said that, because clearly Green did not stop him. Leonard was guarding Lebron the entire finals.

You joined the site to post this?

[SpurOutofTownFan]

I don't even know how we considered it the Big 3. He's been a big part of this team over the years and has contributed a lot but it's not like it's ever been his team like it has with Tim or Tony who have been consistently the main All Stars and Final MVPs of this team.

it actually was Manu's team from 2005 to 2007ish

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Couldnt agree more, the lack of loyalty and appreciation on this board is mind blowing. I don't think I've ever encountered more spoiled, unappreciative fans. This certainly doesn't apply to everyone, but how are you guys hating on a player who wears his heart on his sleeve every night and just couldn't perform for whatever reason. No one in spurs history has had the passion this guy does. Stop using manu as a scapegoat, the dude gave us his all and we just came up short

It's good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way.

[TXstbobcat]

I think it is more about Tim, Manu, and Tony together, being the faces of the franchise for over a decade. Neither of the tree ever ed about playing time or wanting to be the alpha dog on the team.

I have the recent sports illustrated cover with the three of them set as the background on my iPhone and ipad and it will probably stay that way for a long time. These three will always be special for spurs fans.

[dallasmaverickslose]

The Big 3 represents a particular era for this team. It's not about who the best 3 players on this team are.

[Mouth is Bleeding]

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/teams/SAS.html