I'm so excited about the Chevy Volt!

[CosmicCowboy]

Is that James Carville in drag?

[Drachen]

I think I'd bang james carville before that.

[Drachen]

looks more like patrick swayze in drag...

not this


I mean patrick swayze TODAY in drag.

[boutons_deux]

The converter will probably need to be replaced in about 15 years, the panels themselves will crank out appreciable amounts of power for 50 or more, albeit at a slowly declining rate.

--based on everythign I have researched, and I do care about all the system costs.

many systems don't use a single INVERTER (not converter) because the weakest output panel brings the entire array down, but an inverter per panel.

Enphase's warranty:

The Enphase limited warranty (“Limited Warranty”) covers defects in workmanship and materials of the Enphase Microinverter (“Defective Product”) for a period of twenty-five (25) years

http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphas...5_Warranty.pdf

The upcoming M250 (for 300W panels) will probably be better.

So it sounds like inverters last about as long as the panels.

[Wild Cobra]

The converter will probably need to be replaced in about 15 years, the panels themselves will crank out appreciable amounts of power for 50 or more, albeit at a slowly declining rate.

--based on everythign I have researched, and I do care about all the system costs.

The only failing components in the inverter that I'm aware of should be the capacitors, and that's if they are under a lot of energy stress. Just do a time change out every 10 years of them. Such electronics should otherwise last forever. What do you know that I don't?

As for panels, like I mentioned, pay someone with a thermal imaging camera now, and in a few more years. My understanding is solar cells also last a lot longer than previously thought to.

[RandomGuy]

many systems don't use a single INVERTER (not converter) because the weakest output panel brings the entire array down, but an inverter per panel.

Enphase's warranty:

The Enphase limited warranty (“Limited Warranty”) covers defects in workmanship and materials of the Enphase Microinverter (“Defective Product”) for a period of twenty-five (25) years

http://enphase.com/wp-uploads/enphas...5_Warranty.pdf

The upcoming M250 (for 300W panels) will probably be better.

So it sounds like inverters last about as long as the panels.

Inverter, sorry. I was going from memory of something I read, rather than having it right in front of me at the time.

If someone is offering a 25year warranty, that would strongly imply that my data is a bit dated then. If you amortize THAT cost over 25 years, that would increase the rate of return for the system, markedly.

[RandomGuy]

The only failing components in the inverter that I'm aware of should be the capacitors, and that's if they are under a lot of energy stress. Just do a time change out every 10 years of them. Such electronics should otherwise last forever. What do you know that I don't?

As for panels, like I mentioned, pay someone with a thermal imaging camera now, and in a few more years. My understanding is solar cells also last a lot longer than previously thought to.

I would guess you probably know more about the mechnanics of such things that I do. Happily acceeded.

I would also agree that from what I have been able to read up on, the life span is a lot longer than many assume.

Between longer inverter life, and longer panel life, I think CC may have gotten a better deal than even he thinks.

[boutons_deux]

CC "consuming all he generates" could mean he doesn't run the meter backwards with excess generation, so gets no CPS credit to use during no-sun-hours

[Wild Cobra]

Between longer inverter life, and longer panel life, I think CC may have gotten a better deal than even he thinks.

I completely agree. I just hope he had someone use an IR camera to spot installation defective cells, and does so again before his warrant expires.

[boutons_deux]

Inverter, sorry. I was going from memory of something I read, rather than having it right in front of me at the time.

If someone is offering a 25year warranty, that would strongly imply that my data is a bit dated then. If you amortize THAT cost over 25 years, that would increase the rate of return for the system, markedly.

Climate denying s love to say wind + solar energy uses dirty coal/nuclear electricity in manufacturing, but the comeback is that wind + solar rapidly payback that electricity cleanly, and do so for decades.

[Wild Cobra]

Climate denying s love to say wind + solar energy uses dirty coal/nuclear electricity in manufacturing, but the comeback is that wind + solar rapidly payback that electricity cleanly, and do so for decades.

You need to learn how to separate the arguments.

[CosmicCowboy]

CC "consuming all he generates" could mean he doesn't run the meter backwards with excess generation, so gets no CPS credit to use during no-sun-hours

I run it big time backwards in the cooler months. Keeping Ms. CC cool in the summer, however pretty much uses everything it produces and then some.

[Wild Cobra]

I run it big time backwards in the cooler months. Keeping Ms. CC cool in the summer, however pretty much uses everything it produces and then some.

I'm glad it doesn't get so hot where I live. My last bill is $93.62 for 857 kwh. In the winter, my highest was $112.62. Not bad compared to many people in other places.

[boutons_deux]

Electric car ‘Silver Streak’ has 400-mile range on a single charge

EV2

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/07/1...e+Raw+Story%29

[boutons_deux]

While waiting for the big breakthrough in battery, or other, technology ...

Efficiency, Imported From Europe

The makers of plug-in hybrids and E.V.’s have reaped billions of dollars in federal loans and energy grants. Buyers of the electrically enabled vehicles have also been given bountiful perks, from tax credits and the privilege of high-occupancy vehicle lanes to home charging units underwritten by taxpayers.

Yet vehicles that were once the an hesis of eco-friendly are making far deeper inroads with mainstream consumers: fuel-sipping, ultralong-range diesel cars.

Attracted by newly quiet and clean-running engines that deliver some 15 to 30 percent better mileage than their gasoline counterparts, Americans flocked to diesels in 2012. Sales of diesel passenger cars and S.U.V.’s jumped by nearly 26 percent from 2011. That’s despite the stubbornly high price of diesel fuel that, at $3.87 a gallon on average, is 23 cents more than regular gas (but a penny less than premium grade).

“Diesel is far less expensive than plug-ins and E.V.’s, with better range and performance. This technology is available today.”

the new Chevrolet Cruze Diesel, carrying a 46-m.p.g. federal highway rating, is officially the highest-mileage nonhybrid sold in America.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/07/21...?from=homepage

[boutons_deux]

Ford Announces Free Enhancements and Increased Electrified Car Growth


http://carnewscafe.com/2013/07/ford-...ed-car-growth/

[Sportcamper]

Chevy drops price of the Volt 5k for 2014

GM and other electric car makers are slashing prices to move more vehicles off dealer lots as gas prices stabilize and more efficient gasoline engines increase compe ion from conventional vehicles.

http://www.designntrend.com/articles...slashes-5k.htm

[Wild Cobra]

Chevy drops price of the Volt 5k for 2014

GM and other electric car makers are slashing prices to move more vehicles off dealer lots as gas prices stabilize and more efficient gasoline engines increase compe ion from conventional vehicles.

http://www.designntrend.com/articles...slashes-5k.htm

Yep.

For half the price, you can get a 40 MPG Ford Fusion.

[TeyshaBlue]

Um, a $17.5k Fusion?

Not so much.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2013/...usion/pricing/

[TeyshaBlue]

Chevy drops price of the Volt 5k for 2014

GM and other electric car makers are slashing prices to move more vehicles off dealer lots as gas prices stabilize and more efficient gasoline engines increase compe ion from conventional vehicles.

http://www.designntrend.com/articles...slashes-5k.htm

This is what happens as the production line matures and methodology is refined. Costs will continue to drop as economies of scale are finally applied and sales figures increase.

[Wild Cobra]

Um, a $17.5k Fusion?

Not so much.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2013/...usion/pricing/

I saw it, but didn't save the link. I'll bet that's the reduced 2013 price to make room for the 2014's. It was $16,xxx.

Now their hybrid for $27k... Better than the Volt now, isn't it...

[CosmicCowboy]

This is what happens as the production line matures and methodology is refined. Costs will continue to drop as economies of scale are finally applied and sales figures increase.

This isn't production efficiency. It is desperation. They had a five month supply of 2012 and 2013 volts sitting on dealers lots and they are ready to start production on 2014's. With so much of their reputation riding on the success of the Volt they will continue to dump them at a loss if they have to.

[TeyshaBlue]

This isn't production efficiency. It is desperation. They had a five month supply of 2012 and 2013 volts sitting on dealers lots and they are ready to start production on 2014's. With so much of their reputation riding on the success of the Volt they will continue to dump them at a loss if they have to.

“The lower price and cost savings from driving on electricity provide Volt owners an unmatched balance of technology, capability and cost of ownership,” said Don Johnson, U.S. vice president, Chevrolet sales and service. “We have made great strides in reducing costs as we gain experience with electric vehicles and their components.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz2bDmKaJVg

[TeyshaBlue]

According to The Detriot News, Chevrolet spokeswoman Mic e Malcho said that GM has a 140-day supply of Chevy Volts, which is double the amount that many analysts say is “healthy,” and even then, 70 days worth of inventory is still on the high side to some car dealerships. Obviously, this isn’t a good sign for the Volt.

http://www.slashgear.com/chevy-volt-...vels-11286012/



So it's a bit of both.

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.plugincars.com/gm-offers-...ry-127474.html

Loss-making, but not by much

In reality, Lutz says that the Volt is nearer to variable break-even, or maybe even on the cusp of positive gross profit margin.

That still doesn't cover other fixed costs, depreciation and amortization, so as GM's Doug Parks pointed out yesterday, the Volt is still making a loss--but it's a much, much smaller loss than some industry analysts have predicted.