Immortality.... your thoughts?

[DMC]

This is why I said maybe -

As far as a concept being equal to reality - it isn't. Humans make this fundamental mistake all the time. A concept can point you in the direction of reality - but - once you arrive - you have to go further - sort of like...

your car drives you to your house - but when you reach the door - you must dismount and enter your house....the car only took you so far.

So you want to get into a debate on epistemology? Can I drop a Bertrand Russell and a Kant here and there?

You do realize that your statement above is a tautology, right? You make a claim and support it with basically itself. An argument that begins with a logical fallacy isn't much of an argument at all.

What is knowledge? What's the difference between what you believe and what you know?

[cantthinkofanything]

It might be time to seriously consider trading Parker. It'd be a ballsy move when he's playing this good but I think they could seriously build for the future.

[silverblk mystix]

So you want to get into a debate on epistemology? Can I drop a Bertrand Russell and a Kant here and there?

Actually no - just answering your claim - or your question - that conceptualization is equal to reality.

You do realize that your statement above is a tautology, right? You make a claim and support it with basically itself. An argument that begins with a logical fallacy isn't much of an argument at all.

Who is arguing?

What is knowledge? What's the difference between what you believe and what you know?

Big difference.

[DMC]

Big difference.

You gave no answers. Why even interject if you have nothing to offer?

[silverblk mystix]

You gave no answers. Why even interject if you have nothing to offer?

What are you asking? You want me to show you how and why a concept is not reality?

[DMC]

What are you asking? You want me to show you how and why a concept is not reality?

I asked simple questions. Can you not see the "?" behind the questions?

1. What is knowledge?

2. How do you differentiate between knowledge and belief?

3. Do you think the term "nature" was invented by nature itself?

4. If you say "no" to 3, then you should accept that man invented the term, ergo separated himself from it by doing so.

[silverblk mystix]

I asked simple questions. Can you not see the "?" behind the questions?

1. What is knowledge?

What is wisdom? I actually never disputed your claim - or mentioned anything about knowledge.

2. How do you differentiate between knowledge and belief?

Again...still waiting for where it pertains to me...

3. Do you think the term "nature" was invented by nature itself?

Nature is a concept invented by humans...a word...a description of what humans perceive and try to describe.

4. If you say "no" to 3, then you should accept that man invented the term, ergo separated himself from it by doing so.

??Yes , I agree...in his mind....man separated himself...so...this is still in the minds of humans - exactly as I said in the beginning.


I thought you were disagreeing with me that a concept - is not the same as reality - but it appears we are agreed.

[DMC]

You still didn't answer any of my questions and your formatting is not conducive to continued debate.

If a concept exists, it exists in reality. Ergo it cannot be separate from reality.

[silverblk mystix]

You still didn't answer any of my questions and your formatting is not conducive to continued debate.

If a concept exists, it exists in reality. Ergo it cannot be separate from reality.

disagree...I will make time later to explain

[Proxy]

I asked simple questions. Can you not see the "?" behind the questions?

1. What is knowledge?

2. How do you differentiate between knowledge and belief?

3. Do you think the term "nature" was invented by nature itself?

4. If you say "no" to 3, then you should accept that man invented the term, ergo separated himself from it by doing so.

1. Pattern recognition
2. Knowledge is objective, belief is subjective
3. Yes

[DMC]

1. Pattern recognition
2. Knowledge is objective, belief is subjective
3. Yes

2. Is that knowledge or belief?

[Blake]

interesting responses to say the least. thank you for all of your input... even though most didn't answer the question appropriately, it still gave insight.

The question was "immortality.........your thoughts?"

Wide open, imo

[Blake]

This is why I said maybe -

As far as a concept being equal to reality - it isn't. Humans make this fundamental mistake all the time. A concept can point you in the direction of reality - but - once you arrive - you have to go further - sort of like...

your car drives you to your house - but when you reach the door - you must dismount and enter your house....the car only took you so far.

Ohhhhh! Look what sbm pulled right out of one the asses he was probing

[Proxy]

2. Is that knowledge or belief?

I feel like that kind of ambiguous reply is pretentious bs. You know what I mean, but you'll leave this discussion to fall on the absence of some base agreement of semantics. If the world we live in has an *proven model of physics and a clear language in math, then there is an obvious ground for this to stand on. If you're willing to question if that model is knowledge or belief, then we both know the discussion goes no where.

edit: unproven to proven

[ezau]

Why?

Imagine there's a planet like Earth some billion parsecs away that's uninhabited. How important is it?

I fail to see innate value in the Earth outside of what I need from it. If you claim you do see that value, part of me feels it's probably some misguided sense of oneness with a nature that couldn't give two s about you.

As I see it, you're simply overrating humanity. Yeah, sure, we're the only species to have this intelligence but look at our compe ion. The second most intelligent creature is the dolphin and they don't even have hands to put its imagination to good use. The only reason you think that way is because we are the most dominant lifeforms on this planet. I bet you would think otherwise if we were competing against a bigger, stronger, and smarter rival.

[DMC]

As I see it, you're simply overrating humanity. Yeah, sure, we're the only species to have this intelligence but look at our compe ion. The second most intelligent creature is the dolphin and they don't even have hands to put its imagination to good use. The only reason you think that way is because we are the most dominant lifeforms on this planet. I bet you would think otherwise if we were competing against a bigger, stronger, and smarter rival.

I rate humanity high because I am part of it. If there was a higher race, I'd still value humanity more, but outside of humanity, there's no value for anything in the universe. It's just a series of events (as are we) and I don't find anything valuable about anything I cannot see any use for.

[DMC]

I feel like that kind of ambiguous reply is pretentious bs. You know what I mean, but you'll leave this discussion to fall on the absence of some base agreement of semantics. If the world we live in has an unproven model of physics and a clear language in math, then there is an obvious ground for this to stand on. If you're willing to question if that model is knowledge or belief, then we both know the discussion goes no where.

So then you draw a clear line between knowledge and belief. If you have knowledge of a concept, is that now reality? Is belief a reality?

[Proxy]

So then you draw a clear line between knowledge and belief. If you have knowledge of a concept, is that now reality? Is belief a reality?

If knowledge is objective, then yes it is reality. If belief is subjective, then it is not a reality.

Unbiased mutual recognition on a universal level v. biased factionalized recognition on a micro level

[DMC]

If knowledge is objective, then yes it is reality. If belief is subjective, then it is not a reality.

Unbiased mutual recognition on a universal level v. biased factionalized recognition on a micro level

You're telling me what you believe to be, but if it's not a reality why should I give it any consideration?

[Proxy]

You're telling me what you believe to be, but if it's not a reality why should I give it any consideration?

Why would you believe anything else? What is your opinion? The world you live in abides by a common ground.

Anyone can wonder if we see the same blue. I'm all for existentialism, but this isn't the Matrix.

[DMC]

Why would you believe anything else? What is your opinion? The world you live in abides by a common ground.

Anyone can wonder if we see the same blue. I'm all for existentialism, but this isn't the Matrix.

It's odd that we all must say "I believe there's a common truth" yet it's all built on a belief (see the 2nd word of the sentence).

Regardless, the human mind is not "one" with nature, that's my point. There's a clear separation between our conscience and the stimuli from the outside world and perhaps we can only observe this from a 3rd person perspective (i.e. we often cannot discern reality from a dream but we can if someone else is dreaming and we're awake).

[monosylab1k]

all this debate over the OP ramblings of a confirmed drunken alcoholic buffoon.

[Chief Brody]

OP, ask those 3 unlucky trick-or-treaters who visited you a couple years ago.

[Proxy]

It's odd that we all must say "I believe there's a common truth" yet it's all built on a belief (see the 2nd word of the sentence).

Regardless, the human mind is not "one" with nature, that's my point. There's a clear separation between our conscience and the stimuli from the outside world and perhaps we can only observe this from a 3rd person perspective (i.e. we often cannot discern reality from a dream but we can if someone else is dreaming and we're awake).

"Consciousness" to an animal is a natural phenomenon like photosynthesis is to a plant. Soul never made sense, and we aren't a computer, obviously.

Things in this place get too big and too small to assume there's a "common truth"... like some bull , self-comforting answer to the question we all wondered since we were kids, but all this exists in the same universe.

Who knows how much we understand as humans but there's a model and it fuels a universal need for adaptation on every level. If adaptation generally progresses on a right or wrong move basis, then I think it's safe to assume objectivity v. subjectivity is a valid understanding of knowledge/belief. We can't assume we'll ever obtain a crystal clear understanding, but it'd be naive to assume that a distinction doesn't exist.

[DMC]

"Consciousness" to an animal is a natural phenomenon like photosynthesis is to a plant. Soul never made sense, and we aren't a computer, obviously.

Things in this place get too big and too small to assume there's a "common truth"... like some bull , self-comforting answer to the question we all wondered since we were kids, but all this exists in the same universe.

Who knows how much we understand as humans but there's a model and it fuels a universal need for adaptation on every level. If adaptation generally progresses on a right or wrong move basis, then I think it's safe to assume objectivity v. subjectivity is a valid understanding of knowledge/belief. We can't assume we'll ever obtain a crystal clear understanding, but it'd be naive to assume that a distinction doesn't exist.

There's no reason to make an assumption either way. There's no test we're required to complete and turn in that's asking these questions. SBM (Some Be@ner Mexican) was suggesting that the mind is one with nature. I asked him if he wanted to back that up and he just blew if off with some generalities.

If someone wants to show evidence that the human mind is one with nature, I'm here to read it.