Reply With Quote
Look at these moves in the post for a big man...I just don't think Kareem could do this....this is insane for a big guy..he played soccer so his lateral movement is sick
^ not disputing any of that but that doesn't make Kareem a better player....and 1 on 1.... I think Hakeem eats his lunch
Look at these moves in the post for a big man...I just don't think Kareem could do this....this is insane for a big guy..he played soccer so his lateral movement is sick
Magic Johnson, Jerry West, Scottie Pippen, Charles Barkley, Alonzo Mourning, Isiah Thomas, Bob MaCadoo, Jack Ramsay, Kenny Smith, Karl Malone are all former all-stars that disagree wit ur monkey ass n the list gonna keep gettin bigger
Magic is a shill for ESPN nothing more nothing less...andMagic Johnson, Jerry West, Scottie Pippen, Charles Barkley, Alonzo Mourning, Isiah Thomas, Bob MaCadoo, Jack Ramsay, Kenny Smith, Karl Malone are all former all-stars that disagree wit ur monkey ass n the list gonna keep gettin bigger@ Charles Barkley's opinion...and
If spurs had beaten rockets in the wcf that year and went on to win the chip, would robinson be the goat center by kool'a standards?
I started watching basketball around 1986-87 and the best big man I've seen in my years is Hakeem. He was on another level. Timmy's footwork and skill set is very close but he lacked Dream's athleticism.
Magic is a shill for ESPN nothing more nothing less...and
I never said a gotdam thing about Steph's gay ass opinion
Hakeem was constantly doubled by Shaq and Grant in the series as well. On the other hand, Shaq averaged 33 for the series or something like that. It would have been a longer series if Anderson didn't choke those FTs (destroyed his confidence and career after that), but the Rockets were simply the better team that year.
What was not mentioned was how Robinson was tripled/quadrupled the entire series while players like Avery Johnson and VDN were bricking wide open shots, while Rodman was hanging in no man's land guarding no one so that he can get rebounds.
In a game of one on one, Hakeem would destroy Duncan, but Duncan has always been the better of the two in terms of using those around him. People forgot how Hakeem was viewed as a malcontent and black hole in the late 80s early 90s.
Besides, Duncan and Robinson were most definitely not interchangeable, one's got freak athleticism, the other a great feel for the game. Duncan struggled against Stoudemire, he will be lit up against Hakeem, no question.
Different eras, can't compare.
McHale was one of the players with alpha skills but beta mentality, sort of like Robinson, and polar opposite to Kobe, if you will. He was the only guy in the history of the game with post moves that were comparable to Hakeem, and McHale was a dominant defensive player as well.
What is there to struggle? In 1986, the year right before Kareem's drop off in production (the last year he had a share in MVP voting, finishing 5th), Hakeem averaged 31 ppg on 52% shooting, 11.2 rpg, 4 blks, 2.2 stls, and 2 asts. Kareem, for a 37 year old, put up a valiant fight, averaging 27ppg on 60.6% shooting, 2.4 blks, 3.4 asts, but had only 6.8 rpg and 0.8 stls. Not to mention that Kareem spent most of the time on Ralph Sampson, the lesser of the twin towers.Hakeem vs Kareem...
This is where I struggle the most....because the Skyhook was the most devastating and unstoppable shot in NBA history...but Hakeem is the BEST low post player in history plus he had a fade-away that was almost just as unstoppable..plus he played a defense...leads the NBA all-time in blocks...I just don't see how a prime Kareem could deal with the complete package of a prime Dream...I think in the end I'd have to go with Dream over Kareem....it's a tough call but I think MJ was right on this..and that's hard for me to say as a Laker die-hard...
If Prime Dream is in LA playing with Kareem and Magic LA wins 12 les in a row...I think the African get's overlooked because he's from Nigeria
It got so bad, the league has to ban the entire Rocket's team on "drug use" when the entire league was on that stuff (not to mention taking away the other main opponent of the Lakers, the Mavs) so that the Lakers can remain compe ive, and can have an easy path to the playoffs vs. tired and beaten up Boston or Detroit.
This was a huge embarrassment for the Lakers franchise that people try to sweep under the rug, it should belong to Kobe's rape, NVE's son being a convicted killer, the begging and the subsequent rejection, and Magic's HIV legacy.
On another note, truly sickening that KM is throwing KAJ, the greatest Laker of all time (who had his best years with the Bucks) under the bus in order to prop up Hakeem, and subsequently bolster Hakeem's credibility on how good Kobe is. Just absolutely embarrassing.
ambchang is on a rampage.
Kool, you better give up on trying to debate actual basketball stuff, go back to making threads suggesting Duncan's a . No one takes you seriously anyways.
Anyways, Hakeem is not the greatest big man of all-time, he's the most skilled big man of all-time. There's a huge difference. Greatness is not just measured by skill, but accomplishments. As far as accolades go, Hakeem is not the greatest, Kareem has it on lock and Wilt,Russell are right there. Kareem is the GOAT big man, 6 les, 6 MVPs, 2x Finals MVP, winning one at age 37, top 5 MVP candidate, all-time leading scorer, won as an alpha on the Bucks and won les for the Lakers. Fought Bruce Lee. Skyhook.
There's no way in that you can put Hakeem over Kareem. Kareem's stats destroy Hakeem's, Kareem won more les, Hakeem at 37 averaged 10 and 6 while Kareem won a Finals MVP and averaged 22 and 8 and was 5th in MVP voting(he won FMVP while playing with prime Magic Johnson, he outdid prime Magic Johnson in the NBA Finals at 37).
les
MVPs
Totals
Longetivity
all those things point to Kareem, you might piss and moan about Kareem playing in the 70s and his stats being inflated but he was better at 37 than Hakeem in his rookie year, and Hakeem was a beast.
^ What does any of that have to do with my original thesis of Shaq vs Hakeem...are you typing just to be typing
^ Again that has nothing to do with Hakeem dominating Robinson like he belonged in the special Olympics
^ That's it and that's all
^ That's it and that's all
^ His moves were decent for a white boy but not close to Hakeem...no comparison
^ Enlighten me ohh wise one as to the difference in their ages during this time..again my thesis clearly stated "PRIME"...you reaching for a series stat to seem like you know what you're talking bout when you don't
^ None of this rambling has any meaning to the discussion...again nothing but pie filler
^ You PMS Much?
No. Just, no. you don't dictate "greatest" in a team sport by who would win 1 on 1. I'm fairly certain that in a game of one on one, an athletic monkeyballer like Jason Richardson would beat a guy like John Stockton, but nobody would argue J-Rich is a better player than Stockton. I always like to go with the exaggerated example of Cam Newton being a better 1 on 1 football player than Joe Montana
then take away the 1 on 1 and Hakeem would still be a superior player based on his defense and jumpshot, and low post game....what else do you have to argue
Try grasping the idea of a message board.^ What does any of that have to do with my original thesis of Shaq vs Hakeem...are you typing just to be typing
Except it has everything to do with it.^ Again that has nothing to do with Hakeem dominating Robinson like he belonged in the special Olympics
How would you know? You don't seem to have watched Kareem vs. Hakeem in 86, guess when McHale's prime was.
Kareem was dominated first by Moses, then by Hakeem. Speaking of which, where is Moses? You know, the guy who set the big man heritage with the Rockets.^ Enlighten me ohh wise one as to the difference in their ages during this time..again my thesis clearly stated "PRIME"...you reaching for a series stat to seem like you know what you're talking bout when you don't
Truth hurts.^ None of this rambling has any meaning to the discussion...again nothing but pie filler
I don't even know what that is, but it doesn't change the fact that you are throwing the Lakers GOAT under the bus in order to prop up Kobe. Next thing you know, you will start posting Kobe videos and claim that Kobe > Hakeem, therefore Kobe is the best big of all time.^ You PMS Much?
In the team environment, Hakeem and Duncan are very comparable in their defense. I would still give the edge to Hakeem by a slight margin, but it's close.
They had similar defensive ratings, and Hakeem had slightly better defensive win shares, throughout their entire careers. You obviously haven't seen how Duncan (with and without Robinson) anchored some of the greatest defensive teams of all time.
Highlights of a 39 year old Kareem against a 24 year old Hakeem.
Kareem in his prime would dominate Olajuwon in his prime.
funny, if you were a Tim Duncan fan, you would say 4>2, that is it and that is all. As has been brought up before, Tim's ability to get the most of his teammates, elevate their games was one of his greatest assets, whereas Hakeem was more known for his individual greatness. it could be part of the explanation of the 5 years stretch where Dream couldn't get out of the 1st round (failing to miss the playoffs in one of those years).
Longevity is another aspect. Now Hakeem's greatness stretched for over a decade, but his decline was much more rapid than Tim. Tim at age 37 was still the best player of the team that was a 6 away from a championship. At age 37, Dream was averaging something like 10 and 6. Dream's peak > Tim's peak? Sure, I can see that. But as a franchise player over the course of entire careers? I'll take Tim. It didn't take him long at all to learn to not only be great individually, but also to make the team around you better. Dream didn't ring till his 11th, 12th season in the league, and had MJ not been suspended for 2 years, there's a decent chance Hakeem would not have won at all
To be fair, Hakeem never had seasons where he had games off (back to back games) like Duncan did. No rest..
To be fair Duncan typically went further into the postseason and thus had shorter summer vacations than Dream. No rest...
So you're saying Hakeem's teams were better than Duncan's?
I didn't say that anywhere in any of my posts
I only brought that up to counter your rest argument
And I'm pointing out where you originally said Hakeem's decline was very rapid, his teams usually consisted of him as the only option, yet he still posted numbers for much of his career. I'm simply saying Duncan's decline has been slowed by the fact Pop rests his team during the season to get ready for the playoffs. Hakeem never had that luxury.(when getting up in age)
So Hakeem had more regular season wear and Tim had more postseason wear.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions