FYI...

[G-Dawgg]

He was the leading scorer for them all season and he was great in game 1, but admit it... He folded in game 7. THE final championship game when the Spurs needed his scoring the most.

[cd021]

lol, thanks man



Thanks for the non trolling, non lazy reply. Good to see there are some people on here who will actually discuss basketball without trying to pretend they're a class clown or some .

Manu's season being poor is actually part of the problem. Look how Manu was two years ago. A year ago. Then this season. Notice the downtrend? Now look at his postseason stats. His stats downtrended and declined in the postseason too (as did his +/- stat), and it really dropped off the table in the Finals by about three grades from the trend it was already at.

Manu's averages this season were already poor. They don't suddenly change the expected standard since he's still relied upon as the player he used to be, not to mention the fact that he was the highest paid Spur last year too.

Manu's game 7 was what is expected of him. About 12-15 points, a few rebounds and assists, okay defense. I consider that to be a typical, expected Manu game. Not great, star caliber, or outstanding, but at least he adds something and doesn't suck. That game (other than how he choked at the end), isn't something I was disappointed with.

What Manu did in games 1-4 were below what's expected of him, and his game 6 performance was literally worse than if he hadn't played at all.

1 and 3 were not good games. They are below his standards even for the poor season he had last year. His average was 10 points, 4.5 assists, 1.0 rebounds on .388% shooting. Below his season and postseason averages in each category. Those are basically Gary Neal numbers except an extra couple assists thrown in there. That's how "big 3 Manu Ginobili" is? No.

His games 1-4 averages are even worse: 7.5 PPG, 1.5 rebounds, 3 assists, 2.8 turnovers, and shot .345% from the field. You're seriously defending those ty performances as "what we expected"? Manu was practically a ghost until game 5, and he threw that way by sucking terribly in game 6.

Manu's Finals stats: 11.5 PPG, 2.1 RPG, 4.3 APG, 3.1 TO, 43% from the field (about average for his ty averages this season)

Manu game 1-4 stats: 7.5 PPG, 1.5 rebounds, 3 assists, 2.8 turnovers, and shot .345% from the field (these are ty stats)

Manu's Finals stats minus game 5: 9.5 PPG, 2.2 RPG, 3.3 APG, 3.2 TO, .391 FG% (more ty stats)

Manu's Finals stats minus games 5 and 7: 7.8 PPG, 2.0 RPG, 3.0 APG, 3.0 TO, .353% FG% (Garbage ass stats)

As you can see, his total stats were similar to his season stats (worse in every category actually, but still similar), but his season averages were ty in the first place. Manu also only played 23.2 minutes per game in the regular season and 28.6 per game in the Finals. 23% more time spent on the floor to still get less stats than what he averaged with that much less time on the floor during what was a poor season as it is. His stats were really even worse than they appeared in contrast, and when you subtract his one good game, it starts to become clear just how bad he really was.

Manu used to be really good, now his talent level last year was about that of just another streaky roleplayer. I hope he can recover and get somewhat back into form, but it's hard to be positive when he was bad for practically the entire year and got steadily worse as the playoffs went on.

I believe his play making should be included in that discussion for Game 1 and Game.

In game 1 he had 13 pts and 3 assists that helped contribute 8 points

In Game 3-He had just 7 points, but clearly did a great job of facilitating. He had 6 assists that created 15 points in just 23 minutes. His raw stats in those games aren't overwhelming, but he was a big reason why we won. I definitely defend those games. Game 2 and Game 4 and Game 6 he was pretty damn bad, though.

His primary job, was to be a play maker, It wasn't always pretty. but his 30 assists in the series created 72 points for teammates ( 10 of which were assists for 3 point FG's), His 22 turnovers accounted for just 26 points (In the ensuing possessions for Miami. Obviously it cost us time and fewer possesions but at least we were able to minimize the damage. I actually went back through every play-by-play of every game in the series. In game 6 his 8 turnovers accounted for just 9 points (Miami offense was an abonimation thru the 1st 3 quarters,were all but 2 of his turnovers tookplace) We were up by 10 with 5 or 6 of his turnovers occcuring. So it didn't have as negative of an effect as one may thing.

his shooting number aren't as poor as it seems, from games 5-7 he shot 57% include 8-14 FG in Game 7.

His game 5 was one of the best post season performances any Spur has had in the last decade IMO (24pts, 10 assists that helped create 25 points)

I can't defend him missing a free-throw (He is usually money in that situation) but people juding him harsher than Leonard when they were in the same situation is just B.S. half of ST already has Leonard annointed as the 3rd leg of the big 3, but treat him with kid gloves for his lackluster freethrow shooting not for the entire postseason dropping from 82%-67% (remember back to the GSW series where he went 6-16) He missed a freethrow that helped cost us a le as well.


I've been saying that His game 5 against OKC made people have unrelastic expectations for a high milleage 35 Y.O tasked with having such a big role on a le contending squad. He needs to cut the turnovers and shoot a higher percentage from 3 and convert on the fewer Free-throws he does attempt to be more effective going forward.

[Johnny RIngo]

You are not the only one who has looked at the big picture rather than take the easy way out and look for a scapegoat to explain everything.
There are other posters on here too who take the time and effort to get to the bottom of things with their analyzations and thus come to somewhat the same conclusions you do.
Very few however give any credit to the Heats' defense which was pretty damn good going into the finals.
In the final analysis the Heat rose up and flat out took the trophy away from the Spurs, plain and simple.
I hate admitting that, but they weren't considered the best team with the greatest player as well as highly favored to win it all, for nothing.

If someone ran Manu over with a car before game 6, SA would be champions right now. Manu didn't even have to suit up and SA would have the fifth trophy. That's how bad Ginobili was in game 6. His mere presence on the court killed the team.

[Skull-1]

If someone ran Manu over with a car before game 6, SA would be champions right now. Manu didn't even have to suit up and SA would have the fifth trophy. That's how bad Ginobili was in game 6. His mere presence on the court killed the team.

Tell that to cd021. Another delusional post prior to your realistic one.

[cd021]

By the way, I didn't want to go back and look at the play by play for Game 6 but wanted to see how many points were scored off Manu's 8 TOs .......and the results are...........7 points.

I went through all of the play-by-plays for the finals, dealing with Manu last week to shut Skull-1 up.

Game 1- 3 assists -8 points (2 assists for 3 pointers, from Neal and Green)

turnover

1.Bosh made 15 foot jumper=2 points

1 turnover=2 pts (Ginobili-13 pts- 8 points off assists=21 points)

Game 2- 1 Assist-2 points (to Duncan for a dunk)

Turnovers
1. Wade Misses 20 Foot Jumper=0 pts
2. Chris Anderson Made Layup=2pts
3. Allen 3pt FG-3pts

3 Turnovers=5 pts (5 pts, 2 pts off assists=7 pts)

Game-3-6 assists-15 points (3 assists for 3 pointers, 2 from Neal, & 1 for Parker)

Turnovers-
1. James makes layup=2pts
2. Miller makes 3pt FG=3pts

2 turnover for 5pts= (7 pts, 15 points off assists=21 pts)

Game 4- 2 Assists- 4 points (both assists to Duncan for layups)

Turnover

1 Wade Missed 20 foot jumper

1 turnover-0 pts (5 pts, 4 points off assists=9 pts)

Game-5-10 Assists-25 Points (4 assists for 3 pointers)

Turnovers-

1.Battier missed 3pt shot,
2. Wade Lost ball out of bounds
3. James 2 of 2 Made Free-throws=2 pts
2 pts on 3 turnovers (Ginobili 24 points, 25 points off assists=49 pts)

Game 6-3 Assists-6 Points-(2 layups for Duncan, 1 for Splitter)

1. Wade Missed 12 foot Jumper [Offensive rebound Battier Makes 3pt FG]=3 pts
2. Chalmers Travels=0 pts3. James Out of bound, T.O,=0 Pts
4.James Misses 16 Footer,=0 Pts
5. Lebron Steals and is fouled by Ginobili 2 FTM=2 Pts
6. James Misses 17 Foot jumper=0 Pts
7. James, Lost Ball, turnover,=0 Pts
8. Allen makes 2 of 2 free throws=2pts

8 turnovers 7 points off turnovers (Ginobili 9 pts, 6 pts off assists=15pts)

Game-7-5 assists, 12 points (2 assists for 3 pt 1 Leonard, 1 Diaw)
Turnovers:
1.James makes 17 Footer, =2 pts
2. James Makes 2 Free throw =2 pts
3. James Makes 1 of 2 Free-throws=1pt
4. Bosh turnover out of bounds

4 Turnovers, 5 points scored (Ginobili 18 pts, 12 points off assists=30 pts)

Totals=7 games Vs. Miami

22 Turnovers

26-Points Off Turnovers

13-Extra FGA (Additional FG attempts from Miami created off Ginobili's turnovers)

7-Made FGs off Ginobili turnovers

1.1 Points Per Shot (very bad)

Manu-

81 -Points Scored (11.6 per game)

72-Points off assists (10 points off assists per game)

30-Assisted FG (4.3 per game)

[Skull-1]

Wrong as usual. Your stats are inane. The notion that nine turnovers don't hurt the team even if zero points are scored by the opponent is LUDICROUS.

[xmas1997]

I went through all of the play-by-plays for the finals, dealing with Manu last week to shut Skull-1 up.

Game 1- 3 assists -8 points (2 assists for 3 pointers, from Neal and Green)

turnover

1.Bosh made 15 foot jumper=2 points

1 turnover=2 pts (Ginobili-13 pts- 8 points off assists=21 points)

Game 2- 1 Assist-2 points (to Duncan for a dunk)

Turnovers
1. Wade Misses 20 Foot Jumper=0 pts
2. Chris Anderson Made Layup=2pts
3. Allen 3pt FG-3pts

3 Turnovers=5 pts (5 pts, 2 pts off assists=7 pts)

Game-3-6 assists-15 points (3 assists for 3 pointers, 2 from Neal, & 1 for Parker)

Turnovers-
1. James makes layup=2pts
2. Miller makes 3pt FG=3pts

2 turnover for 5pts= (7 pts, 15 points off assists=21 pts)

Game 4- 2 Assists- 4 points (both assists to Duncan for layups)

Turnover

1 Wade Missed 20 foot jumper

1 turnover-0 pts (5 pts, 4 points off assists=9 pts)

Game-5-10 Assists-25 Points (4 assists for 3 pointers)

Turnovers-

1.Battier missed 3pt shot,
2. Wade Lost ball out of bounds
3. James 2 of 2 Made Free-throws=2 pts
2 pts on 3 turnovers (Ginobili 24 points, 25 points off assists=49 pts)

Game 6-3 Assists-6 Points-(2 layups for Duncan, 1 for Splitter)

1. Wade Missed 12 foot Jumper [Offensive rebound Battier Makes 3pt FG]=3 pts
2. Chalmers Travels=0 pts3. James Out of bound, T.O,=0 Pts
4.James Misses 16 Footer,=0 Pts
5. Lebron Steals and is fouled by Ginobili 2 FTM=2 Pts
6. James Misses 17 Foot jumper=0 Pts
7. James, Lost Ball, turnover,=0 Pts
8. Allen makes 2 of 2 free throws=2pts

8 turnovers 7 points off turnovers (Ginobili 9 pts, 6 pts off assists=15pts)

Game-7-5 assists, 12 points (2 assists for 3 pt 1 Leonard, 1 Diaw)
Turnovers:
1.James makes 17 Footer, =2 pts
2. James Makes 2 Free throw =2 pts
3. James Makes 1 of 2 Free-throws=1pt
4. Bosh turnover out of bounds

4 Turnovers, 5 points scored (Ginobili 18 pts, 12 points off assists=30 pts)

Totals=7 games Vs. Miami

22 Turnovers

26-Points Off Turnovers

13-Extra FGA (Additional FG attempts from Miami created off Ginobili's turnovers)

7-Made FGs off Ginobili turnovers

1.1 Points Per Shot (very bad)

Manu-

81 -Points Scored (11.6 per game)

72-Points off assists (10 points off assists per game)

30-Assisted FG (4.3 per game)

The stats don't lie.
This should shut him up this time unless he just does not want to admit to the truth.
But then, there are some people out there like that who only want to hear what they want to hear regardless of the facts staring them right in the face!

[Skull-1]

The stats don't lie.
This should shut him up this time unless he just does not want to admit to the truth.
But then, there are some people out there like that who only want to hear what they want to hear regardless of the facts staring them right in the face!

Yeah, like two missed free throws and NINE TURNOVERS that took away Spurs points and gave seven points to Miami.

[xmas1997]

And if it doesn't shut them up, then just consider the source.

[Kidd K]

By the way, I didn't want to go back and look at the play by play for Game 6 but wanted to see how many points were scored off Manu's 8 TOs .......and the results are...........7 points.

And the results for those possessions he threw away for the Spurs resulted in 0 points for them. If you look at the efficiency of the Spurs' team's scoring that game, those 8 possessions should have resulted in 8 points. So Manu's turnovers really cost the Spurs about 15 points on the final game score, not 7.

You only looked at half of the negatives caused by the turnovers. And we're not even touching on momentum changes, demoralizing the team, and other intangibles. And this was by a player who had a +/- nearly twice as bad as the second worst guy on the team that night.

Lastly, even if it was "just 7 points", which it wasn't, stop forgetting the game ended up tied and went to OT. Had he not cost us those "just 7 points", we would have a championship.

The stats don't lie.
This should shut him up this time unless he just does not want to admit to the truth.
But then, there are some people out there like that who only want to hear what they want to hear regardless of the facts staring them right in the face!

Numbers don't lie, but how people view the stats can (see the above reply). You are also the exact kind of person you're talking about who only wants to hear what they want to hear regardless of the facts staring them right in the face.

You're like Kobe fans who say "hey look Kobe has 30+ game winning shots, so he's a clutch shooter!". . . and they forget that he's missed over 100, meaning his game winning shot % is barely 25%, which isn't clutch at all. Stop pretending the negatives don't matter and the few paltry positives prove your case. They don't.

And if it doesn't shut them up, then just consider the source.

Your posts are becoming increasingly more terrible. Try to stop your downward spiral.

I believe his play making should be included in that discussion for Game 1 and Game.

In game 1 he had 13 pts and 3 assists that helped contribute 8 points

In Game 3-He had just 7 points, but clearly did a great job of facilitating. He had 6 assists that created 15 points in just 23 minutes. His raw stats in those games aren't overwhelming, but he was a big reason why we won. I definitely defend those games. Game 2 and Game 4 and Game 6 he was pretty damn bad, though.

His primary job, was to be a play maker, It wasn't always pretty. but his 30 assists in the series created 72 points for teammates ( 10 of which were assists for 3 point FG's), His 22 turnovers accounted for just 26 points (In the ensuing possessions for Miami. Obviously it cost us time and fewer possesions but at least we were able to minimize the damage. I actually went back through every play-by-play of every game in the series. In game 6 his 8 turnovers accounted for just 9 points (Miami offense was an abonimation thru the 1st 3 quarters,were all but 2 of his turnovers tookplace) We were up by 10 with 5 or 6 of his turnovers occcuring. So it didn't have as negative of an effect as one may thing.

his shooting number aren't as poor as it seems, from games 5-7 he shot 57% include 8-14 FG in Game 7.

His game 5 was one of the best post season performances any Spur has had in the last decade IMO (24pts, 10 assists that helped create 25 points)

I can't defend him missing a free-throw (He is usually money in that situation) but people juding him harsher than Leonard when they were in the same situation is just B.S. half of ST already has Leonard annointed as the 3rd leg of the big 3, but treat him with kid gloves for his lackluster freethrow shooting not for the entire postseason dropping from 82%-67% (remember back to the GSW series where he went 6-16) He missed a freethrow that helped cost us a le as well.


I've been saying that His game 5 against OKC made people have unrelastic expectations for a high milleage 35 Y.O tasked with having such a big role on a le contending squad. He needs to cut the turnovers and shoot a higher percentage from 3 and convert on the fewer Free-throws he does attempt to be more effective going forward.

You actually touch on a philosophical debate that advanced stats experts have on assists. The PPR (pure point rating) is a statistical formula to determine a player's playmaking ability. In it, a turnover is more costly than an assist is helpful. The thinking is that you don't need an assist to score points, and that the assist does not actually directly create the points either, so you can't say "hey an assist, it was worth two points" when he didn't actually make the shot, he just passed to a guy who did. It isn't directly worth 2, just like a turnover isn't directly worth 2 points in the other direction.

If you want to talk about how much he contributed, look at his GameScore stat or +/- stats, and both are ty. In fact, in a thread a couple months ago we had looked up his GameScore and +/- stats for the playoffs and they kept going down as the playoffs went on. Manu got most of his stats in the first 2 series and barely did since.

Onto your "his assists got us this and his turnovers cost us this: Actually his 22 turnovers also cost us at least 22 points on top of those 26, so that's 48 at least. And as I said earlier, Manu should not get full credit for the points scored on an assist, you're really trying to stretch your dollar with that. At max he should get half credit since he's not even taking the shot himself, he's just half of the play. That's what advanced stats are meant to be for. So we'll say he's responsible for adding 36 points making plays. That means he still cost us -12 in net total, so his playmaking was a negative, not a positive. That's on top of his poor shooting outside of games 5 and 7. Overall, Manu barely had a positive impact on the series besides being a decoy outside of games 5 and 7. This is reflected in his GameScore stats, which were right around ZERO for most of those games. 10 being "average".

And btw, feel free to use the same logic on Tony Parker's performance if you want to try bashing him. I use the same logic when determining the usefulness of any player's playmaking, this isn't something I cooked up just for this. That's why I defend Parker's performance and bash Manu's. Parker had a positive overall impact despite the leg injury, Manu did not outside of two games. And one of the two (game 7) is basically what we typically expected as recently as the season before. Minus the choking at the end.

His shooting numbers were as bad as they seemed, I posted his shooting stats already including and not including his 2 good games. Games 5 heavily inflated his overall %, but I prefer looking at the mode rather than the average. I'm not arguing Manu helped us win game 5, I'm saying he was really bad in games 1-4 and game 6 especially, so game 5 and 7 don't matter.

As for how he did against OKC. . .honestly, if you look at that series too, he SUCKED at OKC. Like a huge holy level dropoff. He let James Harden beat the brakes off him all series too. Though I'd happily take a "50/50" good/poor Manu over a 71% chance of below average starting NBA SG impact (14% of which is a HUGE negative impact, and 29% is a well below average, borderline neagtive impact), 14% chance of an average game, and 14% chance of a good game that helps us win it.

That's what it boils down to. He was poor in most of the games when he's supposed to be one of our better players. I couldn't give a less if Leonard missed afree throw. Manu missed his free throw right before Leonard did and also sucked hard that game while underperforming throughout the series while Leonard was pretty good throughout the series and is already known to not be a great FT shooter. That's false equivalency. Manu was far worse than Leonard from expected impact and actual impact standpoints.

Manu's entire season was worse than expected, and his impact per minute went down really far in the finals. Dude played 20% more minutes and still put up less numbers. So he was about 20% worse than what you should have expected from his already below expectations season too.

[Skull-1]

Kidd K with the goods, again....as usual.


Boom.

Well put. I got bashed for breaking the games down like you just did, but it is the only way to show Manu's true performance. Game 5 saved his statistical rear end.... It masked how awful he was.

[xmas1997]

Kidd, I don't think anyone can logically dispute the fact that Manu had one of the worst performances of his career.
What I, and IMHO what I think most others are disputing is what others (shall we call them Manu haters or bashers for lack of a better term?) are trying to cram down our throats, namely that Manu was solely responsible for losing the championship.
At one time or another almost every Spur either made mistakes, shifted momentum, or disappeared.
Regardless of who did the worst (and it is obvious it was probably Manu), the whole team should shoulder parts of the blame at various points of the series if looked at objectively, and not just one man.
Thus we can't simply pin it all on Manu, because it is just not as simple as that as shown by valid arguments on both sides of the issue. And to bash us for saying this, and accuse us of being Manu lovers or whatever, is the wrong tack to take because it is ignorant and very narrow minded and supports nothing.
Plus I honestly don't think enough credit is given to the defense and offense of the Heat for taking it away from the Spurs.
So, in retrospect the best any of us can do, unless you want to nitpick every single play and each ramification, is to come to the simple conclusion that basically the Spurs as a team lost, and the Heat as a team won.

[AchillesHeel]

I've been saying this all off-season, Manu shat the bed when it mattered the most, he didn't just have one bad play like Duncan's missed layup + tip in, he had 4 games worth of garbage and then some.

There were many highlights, like the missed free throw that could have sealed the championship, or the turnover at the end of OT.

It was a mix of Manu being off his game and Pop trusting him til the end. He benched Timmy before he even thought of benching the worst performer on the team. I would have rather had an injured Parker try to make a tough shot to tie the game in OT than have turnobili go up against 2-3 defenders and turn it over.

And then there's this moment, we were basically at the same position the Heat were in Game 6, what does Manu do?


What's done is done, we can't change the facts, we can only hope Pop and others learned from that experience and if we should be in that position against next year we wouldn't up the way we did this year.

[Johnny RIngo]

Kidd, I don't think anyone can logically dispute the fact that Manu had one of the worst performances of his career.
What I, and IMHO what I think most others are disputing is what others (shall we call them Manu haters or bashers for lack of a better term?) are trying to cram down our throats, namely that Manu was solely responsible for losing the championship.
At one time or another almost every Spur either made mistakes, shifted momentum, or disappeared.
Regardless of who did the worst (and it is obvious it was probably Manu), the whole team should shoulder parts of the blame at various points of the series if looked at objectively, and not just one man.
Thus we can't simply pin it all on Manu, because it is just not as simple as that as shown by valid arguments on both sides of the issue. And to bash us for saying this, and accuse us of being Manu lovers or whatever, is the wrong tack to take because it is ignorant and very narrow minded and supports nothing.
Plus I honestly don't think enough credit is given to the defense and offense of the Heat for taking it away from the Spurs.
So, in retrospect the best any of us can do, unless you want to nitpick every single play and each ramification, is to come to the simple conclusion that basically the Spurs as a team lost, and the Heat as a team won.

Manu was payed 14 million last season...the highest on the team. He's definitely responsible for a lot of the blame when he's taking in so much salary and giving so little back to the team. SA being a small market team means the front office has to be VERY careful with salaries to avoid the lux tax. As a result, everybody has to pull their weight(or earn their contract). Manu did NOT earn that paycheck. Duncan played way above his salary level. So did Parker(for the most part). Green and Kawhi played well above their salary. Look at Miami, in comparison. They had 40 yr old Ray Allen on a cheap $3 million contract giving them MUCH better production than our $14 million shooting guard. , swap Ray Allen for Manu and we have that fifth le. Ginobili was payed like a star but his output was more of a mediocre role player. Role Players should NOT be getting paid $14 million a year.

And the sad thing is Manu looked like he still had "it" less than a year ago when he suited up for Argentina. He averaged 20 ppg in FIBA, got injured, healed on company time while missing 30 games, and came back playing worse than Danny Green. He degenerated from a star shooting guard into an unreliable role player in less than a year. Too bad the moron never learned that he should be taking the summers off to heal his body like Duncan has been doing for years now.

[Skull-1]

I've been saying this all off-season, Manu shat the bed when it mattered the most, he didn't just have one bad play like Duncan's missed layup + tip in, he had 4 games worth of garbage and then some.

There were many highlights, like the missed free throw that could have sealed the championship, or the turnover at the end of OT.

It was a mix of Manu being off his game and Pop trusting him til the end. He benched Timmy before he even thought of benching the worst performer on the team. I would have rather had an injured Parker try to make a tough shot to tie the game in OT than have turnobili go up against 2-3 defenders and turn it over.

And then there's this moment, we were basically at the same position the Heat were in Game 6, what does Manu do?


What's done is done, we can't change the facts, we can only hope Pop and others learned from that experience and if we should be in that position against next year we wouldn't up the way we did this year.

After watching that video I think I need to be checked for PTSD. UGH! Even the announcer said he was out of control!

Why not slam the ball off the defender's foot instead of a wild Hail Mary pass to James?

[Skull-1]

Manu was payed 14 million last season...the highest on the team. He's definitely responsible for a lot of the blame when he's taking in so much salary and giving so little back to the team. SA being a small market team means the front office has to be VERY careful with salaries to avoid the lux tax. As a result, everybody has to pull their weight(or earn their contract). Manu did NOT earn that paycheck. Duncan played way above his salary level. So did Parker(for the most part). Green and Kawhi played well above their salary. Look at Miami, in comparison. They had 40 yr old Ray Allen on a cheap $3 million contract giving them MUCH better production than our $14 million shooting guard. , swap Ray Allen for Manu and we have that fifth le. Ginobili was payed like a star but his output was more of a mediocre role player. Role Players should NOT be getting paid $14 million a year.

And the sad thing is Manu looked like he still had "it" less than a year ago when he suited up for Argentina. He averaged 20 ppg in FIBA, got injured, healed on company time while missing 30 games, and came back playing worse than Danny Green. He degenerated from a star shooting guard into an unreliable role player in less than a year. Too bad the moron never learned that he should be taking the summers off to heal his body like Duncan has been doing for years now.

[xmas1997]

I guess I have to repost this again because it seems it is just not sinking in to those thick headed excuses for brains some of you have.
Read carefully and slowly!

I don't think anyone can logically dispute the fact that Manu had one of the worst performances of his career.
What I, and IMHO what I think most others are disputing is what others (shall we call them Manu haters or bashers for lack of a better term?) are trying to cram down our throats, namely that Manu was solely responsible for losing the championship.
At one time or another almost every Spur either made mistakes, shifted momentum, or disappeared.
Regardless of who did the worst (and it is obvious it was probably Manu), the whole team should shoulder parts of the blame at various points of the series if looked at objectively, and not just one man.
Thus we can't simply pin it all on Manu, because it is just not as simple as that as shown by valid arguments on both sides of the issue. And to bash us for saying this, and accuse us of being Manu lovers or whatever, is the wrong tack to take because it is ignorant and very narrow minded and supports nothing.
Plus I honestly don't think enough credit is given to the defense and offense of the Heat for taking it away from the Spurs.
So, in retrospect the best any of us can do, unless you want to nitpick every single play and each ramification, is to come to the simple conclusion that basically the Spurs as a team lost, and the Heat as a team won.

[Skull-1]

I guess I have to repost this again because it seems it is just not sinking in to those thick headed excuses for brains some of you have.
Read carefully and slowly!

Yes. He isn't solely responsible. He's DOUBLY responsible. Exclusively x 2

[xmas1997]

Yes. He isn't solely responsible. He's DOUBLY responsible. Exclusively x 2

More BS.

[Skull-1]

Too bad that horse isn't Manu. Tim would use that bat on him just like that.

[xmas1997]

Too bad that horse isn't Manu. Tim would use that bat on him just like that.

I seriously doubt that, just as I doubt you know what you're talking about.

[Skull-1]

I seriously doubt that, just as I doubt you know what you're talking about.

A man with so little in his brain pan would understandably doubt a lot.

[xmas1997]

A man with so little in his brain pan would understandably doubt a lot.

Definitely a case of the pot calling the kettle black if I ever heard one.
At least I possess a rational thinking brain unlike your tinker toys.
Don't you have anything constructive to say?
All you spout are one negative after another.
That says quite a lot about your character, you know.

[Skull-1]

Definitely a case of the pot calling the kettle black if I ever heard one.
At least I possess a rational thinking brain unlike your tinker toys.
Don't you have anything constructive to say?
All you spout are one negative after another.
That says quite a lot about your character, you know.

All you do is troll like some zit faced teenager with nothing better to do,

[xmas1997]

All you do is troll like some zit faced teenager with nothing better to do,

What?
It's been established a long time ago that you are definitely the troll here.
Or did you miss that while wearing your blinders?