Belinelli is just as bad as Neal defensively..........

[Vash StampedE]

Let's just hope that he is more or equally clutch as Neal.

[Hoops Czar]

you missed the point of about 20 posts here.....(reading would help)

Beli will be an upgrade, because even as an average defender that he is, he will be much less of a liability than Neal was.

and you also ignored the fact that we are not talking about prime Mike Miller. we are talking about rusty Mike Miller on one shoe. that's like losing a stock car race against a 1980 Buick on a flat tire.

If we want to make things up, so be it.

Marco Belinelli

D-rating

21- 115
22- 116
23- 114
24- 109
25- 109
26- 107

Gary Neal

D-rating

26- 109
27- 107
28- 106

I don't know what you call average, but Belinelli's best defensive year came last year and I think Thibbs knows a thing or two about defense and he still gave up 107 points per 100 possessions. What the numbers suggest is that Neal is a slightly better defender than Belinelli. Even if the difference may seem negligible to some, he's not even close to an average defender. I'm not defending Neal's bad defense but, if you watched the Bulls last year, I'm sure you could easily find some equally bad defensive sequences that could compare to Miller's missing shoe three pointer. Pop is really has his work cut out for him trying to transform a bad defender into a somewhat respectable one.

WS/48

Marco Belinelli

22- .028
23- .049
24- .084
25- .071
26- .076

Gary Neal

26- .099
27- .101
28- .060 (playing injured)

I don't know how someone could even suggest with a straight face that Belinelli is the better player. Once again, the number suggest otherwise. Who knows, Beli has never played on a team with this much fire power. Maybe playing alongside three future HOF's will alleviate some of the everyday pressures of leading an offense to victory and he can develop into a solid contributor off the bench while adding some much needed depth to the second unit. But for now, he still has to prove himself.

[barakz21]

Belinelli averaged 2 assists and 2 rebounds per game in 25 minutes last year.
Neal averaged 2 assists and 2 rebounds per game in 21 minutes last year.

Belinelli's going to have to play A LOT better than he played AT ANY POINT in his career to really be better than Neal. It could happen. Odds say it won't.

Numbers don't tell the whole story though. With the eye test alone, it's safe to say that Neal looking to score is his first, second, third and fourth option. Passing is his fifth. Besides, a lot of his shots are forced. Beli otoh takes his shots within the flow of the offense, and he makes the passes that are end up becoming someone else's assist.

[ace3g]

Numbers don't tell the whole story though. With the eye test alone, it's safe to say that Neal looking to score is his first, second, third and fourth option. Passing is his fifth. Besides, a lot of his shots are forced. Beli otoh takes his shots within the flow of the offense, and he makes the passes that are end up becoming someone else's assist.

Yeah, Belinelli has already had some good hockey assists throughout the preseason.

Also like others have mentioned stats aren't everything, if you scout a player just on stats then there are a lot all star level players in Division II basketball.

[Raven]

If we want to make things up, so be it.

Marco Belinelli

D-rating

21- 115
22- 116
23- 114
24- 109
25- 109
26- 107

Gary Neal

D-rating

26- 109
27- 107
28- 106

I don't know what you call average, but Belinelli's best defensive year came last year and I think Thibbs knows a thing or two about defense and he still gave up 107 points per 100 possessions. What the numbers suggest is that Neal is a slightly better defender than Belinelli. Even if the difference may seem negligible to some, he's not even close to an average defender. I'm not defending Neal's bad defense but, if you watched the Bulls last year, I'm sure you could easily find some equally bad defensive sequences that could compare to Miller's missing shoe three pointer. Pop is really has his work cut out for him trying to transform a bad defender into a somewhat respectable one.

WS/48

Marco Belinelli

22- .028
23- .049
24- .084
25- .071
26- .076

Gary Neal

26- .099
27- .101
28- .060 (playing injured)

I don't know how someone could even suggest with a straight face that Belinelli is the better player. Once again, the number suggest otherwise. Who knows, Beli has never played on a team with this much fire power. Maybe playing alongside three future HOF's will alleviate some of the everyday pressures of leading an offense to victory and he can develop into a solid contributor off the bench while adding some much needed depth to the second unit. But for now, he still has to prove himself.

AMEN.

[barakz21]

Yeah, Belinelli has already had some good hockey assists throughout the preseason.

Also like others have mentioned stats aren't everything, if you scout a player just on stats then there are a lot all star level players in Division II basketball.

Ace couldn't have said it any better.

[mountainballer]

I don't know how someone could even suggest with a straight face that Belinelli is the better player.

"Belinelli IS the better player"

[tenbeersbold]

---

Umm,no he isn't....

By every single measureable NBA stat Neal is superior

I know comprehension isn't exactly yer bag but reality should be

But then again you have a Spain avatar,y'all never liked them darkies much anyhoo

Which 'splains a lot

[TheWriter]

Who the "better" player is, is pointless. It's about who's the better fit. Belinelli is the BETTER fit for the Spurs.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I just watched Bellinelli last night and he has the quickness length and physicality to keep his man in front of him. Neal flailed around like a re ed chicken slow on rotations leading to blocking fouls when he wasn't losing his man for open 3's or giving up open lanes to the basket.

And NBA defensive metrics are about as meaningful as defensive metrics in baseball. What it measures is not the actions of the individual in question, it measures the conglomerate of the team when he is participating.

There are other means of looking at it such as player pairs that LJ would post like

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206904
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208734
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200042

they paint a different picture where he makes the people around him worse.

[mountainballer]

---

Umm,no he isn't....
By every single measureable NBA stat Neal is superior

well, following your logic Garnett, Malone and Barkley are superior to Tim.
oh, they are not.
but you just claimed they are.

---

I know comprehension isn't exactly yer bag but reality should be

in reality Beli is better than Neal.
wait. maybe THAT'S the reason why the Spurs didn't re sign Neal and replaced him with Beli.

---

But then again you have a Spain avatar,y'all never liked them darkies much anyhoo

Which 'splains a lot

ah, I have a Spain avatar. and you really used the word comprehension?
please use your comprehension, or whatever you think that might be and explain this logic. or buy a globe, you illiterate.

and btw. I like Tim more than Dirk. there goes the last of your brilliant arguments.

[barakz21]

I just watched Bellinelli last night and he has the quickness length and physicality to keep his man in front of him. Neal flailed around like a re ed chicken slow on rotations leading to blocking fouls when he wasn't losing his man for open 3's or giving up open lanes to the basket.

And NBA defensive metrics are about as meaningful as defensive metrics in baseball. What it measures is not the actions of the individual in question, it measures the conglomerate of the team when he is participating.

There are other means of looking at it such as player pairs that LJ would post like

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206904
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=208734
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200042

they paint a different picture where he makes the people around him worse.

[tenbeersbold]

well, following your logic Garnett, Malone and Barkley are superior to Tim.
oh, they are not.
but you just claimed they are.



in reality Beli is better than Neal.
wait. maybe THAT'S the reason why the Spurs didn't re sign Neal and replaced him with Beli.



ah, I have a Spain avatar. and you really used the word comprehension?
please use your comprehension, or whatever you think that might be and explain this logic. or buy a globe, you illiterate.

and btw. I like Tim more than Dirk. there goes the last of your brilliant arguments.

OK,so yer a Nazi... my bad,it was bright and I couldn't see the flag avatar all that clear on the small screen

And actually dumbass my description of yer avatar was correct in English,which isn't yer mother tongue so yer Aryan ass gets a pass there

And if you don't include those players that you metioned in the conversation w/ Tim...wow even dumber than a nuttn

[monkeypunk]

And if you don't include those players that you metioned in the conversation w/ Tim...wow even dumber than a nuttn

The is a nuttn?

[mountainballer]

no idea.
but I guess he somehow tries to be witty by using a term he thinks is German.
oh well. epic fail.

he's a bit like that guy:


Otto West: Don't call me stupid.

Wanda: Oh, right! To call you stupid would be an insult to stupid people! I've known sheep that could outwit you. I've worn dresses with higher IQs. But you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape?

Otto West: Apes don't read philosophy.

Wanda: Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it. Now let me correct you on a couple of things, OK? Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not "Every man for himself." And the London Underground is not a political movement.

[monkeypunk]

no idea.
but I guess he somehow tries to be witty by using a term he thinks is German.
oh well. epic fail.

he's a bit like that guy:


Otto West: Don't call me stupid.

Wanda: Oh, right! To call you stupid would be an insult to stupid people! I've known sheep that could outwit you. I've worn dresses with higher IQs. But you think you're an intellectual, don't you, ape?

Otto West: Apes don't read philosophy.

Wanda: Yes they do, Otto. They just don't understand it. Now let me correct you on a couple of things, OK? Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not "Every man for himself." And the London Underground is not a political movement.

Assssssshoooooooooole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[monkeypunk]

Who the "better" player is, is pointless. It's about who's the better fit. Belinelli is the BETTER fit for the Spurs.

This.

[hater]

Marco is a BASKETBALL player.

Neal was just a lucky shooter with clutch skills, but a ballhog in the end. Yes I still do keep him in my avatar. Neal with it.

[PlayNando]

Belinelli + Nando = victory, tbh.

[ace3g]

I mentioned his cuts and movement without the ball as a plus and I liked this one play last night with Manu; both started at opposite wings, they both made cuts to the basket, and as they crossed paths under the basket their defenders got caught if they should stay on their man or switch which led to an open 3 for Manu.

[look_at_g_shred]

Marco is a BASKETBALL player.

Yes I still do keep him in my avatar. Neal with it.

[hater]

I mentioned his cuts and movement without the ball as a plus and I liked this one play last night with Manu; both started at opposite wings, they both made cuts to the basket, and as they crossed paths under the basket their defenders got caught if they should stay on their man or switch which led to an open 3 for Manu.

good point. Using both might be a good idea. I am for anything that avoids having Manu hog the ball at the point and then proceed to pass it to an open Heat player or the lady in the first row.

[ace3g]

good point. Using both might be a good idea. I am for anything that avoids having Manu hog the ball at the point and then proceed to pass it to an open Heat player or the lady in the first row.

It is good for more than that, especially at times when Parker is played by a taller/longer defender. Having essentially 2 new play makers added to the roster (Kawhi's improvement and Belinelli) will be great come playoff time.

[spursince#99]

Reading this thread, I couldn't help but to comment. A lot of you "stat guro's" know absolutely nothing. Marco will put up better stats than Neal across the entire board including his shooting percentages. Mark my words, he's a much better player and defender.

[xmas1997]

Ok, R.C., grab Nunnally while you can, the second coming of Bowen.