Mavs: Chandler, Felton to the mavs for Calderon, dalembert and larkin

[Chinook]

Ok, I'll buy that. I mean, we've taken a bigger gamble trading Hill. In hindsight, I'm glad it all worked out.

And they didn't trade Hill for Vince Carter two years earlier even though he hadn't really shown anything as a rookie. The Spurs saw a scoring SF as their missing piece, but they still didn't give up their rookie PG as a throwaway.

And that doesn't even use the leverage argument I've been making.

[Hoops Czar]

All speculative. Could just as easily be another Scola. The Mavs aren't near contenders yet.

Speculation goes both ways. He could be the next Jack Mcclinton. Maybe he can carve himself out a nice little niche in the NBA someday but, he's hardly a can't miss prospect and to this point, I haven't seen anything in his game that would suggest holding up this deal just because he was labeled a 1st rounder. Who's to say Dallas didn't due their due diligence during practices and limited game play to know the kind of player he was and if he fit Carlisle's system before dangling him in a trade. There are a lot of unknown variables. However, under the given cir stances, if it were the Spurs, I wouldn't think twice about giving up a player like Bertans to get a defensive stopper like Chandler. When healthy, and at 31, he can be a game changer.

[Chinook]

Speculation goes both ways. He could be the next Jack Mcclinton. Maybe he can carve himself out a nice little niche in the NBA someday but, he's hardly a can't miss prospect and to this point, I haven't seen anything in his game that would suggest holding up this deal just because he was labeled a 1st rounder. Who's to say Dallas didn't due their due diligence during practices and limited game play to know the kind of player he was and if he fit Carlisle's system before dangling him in a trade. There are a lot of unknown variables. However, under the given cir stances, if it were the Spurs, I wouldn't think twice about giving up a player like Bertans to get a defensive stopper like Chandler. When healthy, and at 31, he can be a game changer.

Larkin is closer to 2009 Hill/2013 Marshall/2013 Plumlee than he is to Bertans.

[Hoops Czar]

Larkin is closer to 2009 Hill/2013 Marshall/2013 Plumlee than he is to Bertans.

Based on what?

[Chinook]

Based on what?

The fact that he's a former first-rounder who's actually in the league but can't crack the rotation.

[tlongII]

Felton?

[mavsfan1000]

Felton?

Dalembert?

[Chinook]

Felton?

Damn. I take it back. It was a great trade by Dallas.

[Baam]

Damn. I take it back. It was a great trade by Dallas.

edit damn Pelicans getting Asik

[Jacob1983]

Good trade for the Mavs. I think every NBA would take Chandler over Dalember 100 percent of the time. Is Felton still having problems with his weight?

[tlongII]

Felton is one of the worst PG's in the league.

[100%duncan]

Good to see Mavs getting stronger though. West is becoming a badder , which is bad for us.

[Dverde]

I believe they'll push hard to sign Deng. Felton, Ellis, Deng, Dirk, Chandler starting. Devin Harris, Carter, Blair off the bench. I think they would be contenders if they stay healthy. They have one of the best coaches, too.

[Chinook]

Felton is one of the worst PG's in the league.

I agree with you. It's just that now we know he's gonna shine in Dallas.

[Hoops Czar]

The fact that he's a former first-rounder who's actually in the league but can't crack the rotation.

That's a stretch.. Lots of mid to late first rounders flame out or don't live up to one's projected expectations. I think his first round selection had more to do with name recognition than anything else. This is his third team in a year. Where was this argument when Atlanta traded him to Dallas for Nogueira, Cunningham and Muscala?

He's a PG but, couldn't crack the rotation or beat out Devin Harris for back up PG duties during the RS. Maybe Dallas is in win now mode and doesn't want to wait the 4 or 5 years for him to develop or maybe he isn't anything special.

[Chinook]

That's a stretch.. Lots of mid to late first rounders flame out or don't live up to one's projected expectations. I think his first round selection had more to do with name recognition than anything else. This is his third team in a year. Where was this argument when Atlanta traded him to Dallas for Nogueira, Cunningham and Muscala?

He's a PG but, couldn't crack the rotation or beat out Devin Harris for back up PG duties during the RS. Maybe Dallas is in win now mode and don't want to wait the 4 or 5 years for him to develop or maybe he isn't anything special.

Most first-rounders get more than a year, though, especially those taken that high. That's why Thabeet and Marshall being traded was so telling.

[ElNono]

And they didn't trade Hill for Vince Carter two years earlier even though he hadn't really shown anything as a rookie. The Spurs saw a scoring SF as their missing piece, but they still didn't give up their rookie PG as a throwaway.

And that doesn't even use the leverage argument I've been making.

But Vince Carter doesn't enter this equation because the Spurs had no clue how Vince would fit. This is a case where a former great fit under the same coach/system/star was let go, was recognized as a mistake, and now that they have the money, they're going all out to amend such mistake and hope that old mix can still work.

If anything, trades like Kawhi or RJ goes to show that when teams get desperate, they'll gamble, and that includes the Spurs. Some pan out (Kawhi), some do not (RJ). This is a particular case where the Mavs already have hindsight and know Tyson, if healthy, gives them a huge boost. It's still a gamble, but Dallas already knows what's the best-case scenario looks like if it works out.

No other center in the league works for the Mavs trying to re-capture that. Everyone else is a bigger gamble.

And Larkin might end up being an All-Star, but also immaterial. It's clear the Mavs are decided to try to surround Dirk with a cast to make another run now, not in 3-4 years.

[Chinook]

By the way, draft-day trades are different. Dallas trade Nougeira for the right to tell Atlanta to pick Larkin for them.. The Hawks didn't pick him and trade him later.

[DPG21920]

Obviously, there may be more moves and that could change perspectives, but as of now, I just don't see why NY did this. In a bubble, they got decent value I guess, but I truly feel they could have gotten at least that much (mediocre prospect, 2 2nd rounders) especially if they were willing to give longer term salary relief (taking on Calderon-esque contract).

I feel that was Tyson Chandler's floor. Talented big man (even with health issues) that is an expiring deal is usually a pretty valuable asset (like an actual first round pick that has been unused on someone that has underwhelmed) especially for teams trying to shed future money (can get more talented guys on longer deals) and/or contenders needing that final piece (even though it's conjuncture at this point, I am sure many teams are very high on Tyson and blame the level of play on the crappy situation. Right or wrong).

As an aside, Chinook knows I respect his takes. I even understand his arguments, I just really don't agree. But time will tell. IMO, even if Tyson sucks, the logic was good and IMO they did things early so they have more wiggle room/clarity and they paid a very minimal price in the real world.

Instead of the analogy that Chinook used, I equate it to the %'s vs real $ argument. If someone tells you that paying 100% more than something is worth is a bad deal, but then you find out that really only equates to one dollar, it has no impact despite the principle. I don't really agree the paid too much even with some leverage they may or may not have had, but even if that is true, when you look at the price for a known quantiy in Tyson/Dirk, who cares? It was not egregious at all and outside of the 3M in cap space lost, no real loss at all.

[Jacob1983]

Will Jim Carey put up with Felton's at ude and fatness?

[Chinook]

But Vince Carter doesn't enter this equation because the Spurs had no clue how Vince would fit. This is a case where a former great fit under the same coach/system/star was let go, was recognized as a mistake, and now that they have the money, they're going all out to amend such mistake and hope that old mix can still work.

If anything, trades like Kawhi or RJ goes to show that when teams get desperate, they'll gamble, and that includes the Spurs. Some pan out (Kawhi), some do not (RJ). This is a particular case where the Mavs already have hindsight and know Tyson, if healthy, gives them a huge boost. It's still a gamble, but Dallas already knows what's the best-case scenario looks like if it works out.

No other center in the league works for the Mavs trying to re-capture that. Everyone else is a bigger gamble.

And Larkin might end up being an All-Star, but also immaterial. It's clear the Mavs are decided to try to surround Dirk with a cast to make another run now, not in 3-4 years.

We're getting away from the crux of the issue. My argument isn't that Chandler isn't going to have the enough impact to warrant the trade. It's that the Mavs gave up some of those assets for no reason. Had it been just Larkin, fine. Had it been 34, fine. Had it been taking back Felton, fine. Had it been two of the three, fine. But it was pretty much a max offer for Tyson.

It's just like the Knicks trading for Melo. Even if Anthony is worth the price, why pay it when no one else has a bid nearly as high?

[Floyd Pacquiao]

eh chandler Is a past prime monkeyballer and felton is trash, this move merely moves the mavs from 8 to 6 seed imo

[MarioSpeedwagon]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Do yourself a favor and fist yourself with a pair of toy hulk hands.

every take I've seen from him is bad.

[ElNono]

We're getting away from the crux of the issue. My argument isn't that Chandler isn't going to have the enough impact to warrant the trade. It's that the Mavs gave up some of those assets for no reason. Had it been just Larkin, fine. Had it been 34, fine. Had it been taking back Felton, fine. Had it been two of the three, fine. But it was pretty much a max offer for Tyson.

It's just like the Knicks trading for Melo. Even if Anthony is worth the price, why pay it when no one else has a bid nearly as high?

Chandler's value in Dallas was worth a championship. I don't know how you really 'measure' that.

They gave up whatever it took to get what they feel is an integral piece to make them contenders again, after wasting the last 3 years trying to find a similar fit.

I'm sure they're going to keep wheeling and dealing, they still have some other positions to fill out and I don't think Felton is going to stay... we'll see.

[Thread]

They gave up whatever it took to get what they feel is an integral piece to make them contenders again, after wasting the last 3 years trying to find a similar fit.

Again, it's not the 3 years of Chandler that is so debilitating it is the tragedy of giving away the 3 from Dirk. Dirk didn't have 3 to put in the piss pot. Grim business.