Evolution...?

[Avante]

son...dad, I don't think there is a God, I lost Joey (dog) today, thought he was gone. So I started crying. Grandma said maybe if I prayed Joey would come back, so I did and Joey never came back. There is no God, is there dad?

what do you say?

this is trivial... and none of this bears any relevance to the conversation we had been having. that being said, i dont think my kid would be growing up in an environment where god (at least in the biblical sense) is being shoved down his throat on a daily basis, where that would be his first reaction

I expected that, you want to leave emotions and real life out of this.

Ok guy, I feel better about things thinking something is behind all this, I see too many things that simply couldn't just happen without a design. So I'd be better off if I went with your approach?

[spurraider21]

I expected that, you want to leave emotions and real life out of this.

wait, what? if any kid is raised in a very religious environment, his first reaction to things like that will always be "god was on our side" or something like that. that's not a revelation. i responded to your question by saying my household probably wouldn't function that way, just like the household i grew up in didn't.

similarly, if you take a kid who grew up in an environment (on the other end of the spectrum) where not only was the family not religious at all, but they never even mentioned the word god... like the kid has never even heard the word god before and has absolutely no clue what that is... its not like he's going to be asking religious questions.

in the scenario you brought up, you mentioned a grandmother that told the child to pray to god to have his situation resolved. that alone is bending the story.

and you didn't answer my scenario either

Ok guy, I feel better about things thinking something is behind all this

thats fine. but just because something gives you warm fuzzy feelings, that doesn't mean it is any more likely to be true. i'm sure children feel better about things when they believe there is santa claus and a tooth fairy. that doesn't make those things any more true than they would be otherwise.

I see too many things that simply couldn't just happen without a design

this is because you have virtually no practical understanding of physics, chemistry, or biology

So I'd be better off if I went with your approach?

as i've said dozens of times, this is completely irrelevant. there is no "better off" or "worse off." what makes us feel better doesn't make it any more or less true.

[Avante]

wait, what? if any kid is raised in a very religious environment, his first reaction to things like that will always be "god was on our side" or something like that. that's not a revelation. i responded to your question by saying my household probably wouldn't function that way, just like the household i grew up in didn't.

similarly, if you take a kid who grew up in an environment (on the other end of the spectrum) where not only was the family not religious at all, but they never even mentioned the word god... like the kid has never even heard the word god before and has absolutely no clue what that is... its not like he's going to be asking religious questions.

in the scenario you brought up, you mentioned a grandmother that told the child to pray to god to have his situation resolved. that alone is bending the story.

and you didn't answer my scenario either


thats fine. but just because something gives you warm fuzzy feelings, that doesn't mean it is any more likely to be true. i'm sure children feel better about things when they believe there is santa claus and a tooth fairy. that doesn't make those things any more true than they would be otherwise.


this is because you have virtually no practical understanding of physics, chemistry, or biology


as i've said dozens of times, this is completely irrelevant. there is no "better off" or "worse off." what makes us feel better doesn't make it any more or less true.

So forget all the reasons people believe in a God, right?

Alright....

So the truth is there is no God....right?

[spurraider21]

So forget all the reasons people believe in a God, right?

Alright....

So the truth is there is no God....right?

why do you insist upon putting words in my mouth?

i have made it explicity clear that i have NEVER said "there is no god." but you keep making it seem like i said that. are you literally re ed?

[Avante]

why do you insist upon putting words in my mouth?

i have made it explicity clear that i have NEVER said "there is no god." but you keep making it seem like i said that. are you literally re ed?

No not literally re e just curious as to why anyone would work so hard at trying to prove evolution/BIG BANG and then say..."I never said there was no God". So we had evolution/BIG BANG and God?

Dude, do you think there is a God? No song and dance bull ok? Do you think there is a God, a yes or no will work?

[Chinook]

No not literally re e just curious as to why anyone would work so hard at trying to prove evolution/BIG BANG and then say..."I never said there was no God". So we had evolution/BIG BANG and God?

Dude, do you think there is a God? No song and dance bull ok? Do you think there is a God, a yes or no will work?

Nothing hard to understand about that. Nothing about believing in god excludes anything scientific.

Anyway, SR will say no to your question, but you'll misinterpret that to mean that he's saying, "There is no god."

[Avante]

Nothing hard to understand about that. Nothing about believing in god excludes anything scientific.

Anyway, SR will say no to your question, but you'll misinterpret that to mean that he's saying, "There is no god."

So how do we go with Adam and Eve and it took God six days and He rested on the seventh....AND...evolution/BIG BANG?

[spurraider21]

No not literally re e just curious as to why anyone would work so hard at trying to prove evolution/BIG BANG and then say..."I never said there was no God". So we had evolution/BIG BANG and God?

Dude, do you think there is a God? No song and dance bull ok? Do you think there is a God, a yes or no will work?

well if we're talking about the christian god as portrayed in the bible and all the tales, like adam and eve, abraham, noah, moses, jesus, and all that... its a different story. i dont buy that one. i dont think the tales of the bible are consistent with each other and with what we know about the earth and the cosmos. as for a more general version of a god, its another thing entirely.

you can ask chinook about it though. he's one of the guys here that is fine with the concept of the big bang, evolution, and is also a believer in god (again, not the christian, biblical god).

as for me... there is all sorts of evidence for the big bang, for evolution. as i've explained to you (and you claim to understand), the only reason those theories exist is because of evidence. where i disagree with theists is:

i dont think we need to assume that there is a god behind all of it (even though there are different definitions of a god, i would characterize god as a sentient, conscious 'being' that set the universe into motion, starting with the bang). the way i see it, our understanding of everything (though nowhere near complete) is rapidly increasing. right now there are questions that science can't definitively answer. a lot of them. and some people... when they reach an unanswered question, turn to god. i dont do so. years ago, scientists thought the earth was the center of the universe, and all the stars and the sun revolved around the earth. the orbits didn't make sense that way though, with the laws of gravity. they didn't add up. it was something science at the time couldn't answer... so it was an accepted idea that the "hand of god" moved the stars and planets, which was their explanation for their unusual motion. of course, the heliocentric (earth revolves around the sun) model fixed all the mathematical inconsistencies, and removed the "hand of god" idea. similarly, while we don't know certain things right now, like the exact cause of the bang... its easy to just place the "hand of god" there again.

there might be... but i dont think the default position would be to assume its existence. i'm open to the idea of it. if would be a logical fallacy to be certain that it doesn't exist.

[Relevancy]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SNuZ4OE6vCk

[Avante]

well if we're talking about the christian god as portrayed in the bible and all the tales, like adam and eve, abraham, noah, moses, jesus, and all that... its a different story. i dont buy that one. i dont think the tales of the bible are consistent with each other and with what we know about the earth and the cosmos. as for a more general version of a god, its another thing entirely.

you can ask chinook about it though. he's one of the guys here that is fine with the concept of the big bang, evolution, and is also a believer in god (again, not the christian, biblical god).

as for me... there is all sorts of evidence for the big bang, for evolution. as i've explained to you (and you claim to understand), the only reason those theories exist is because of evidence. where i disagree with theists is:

i dont think we need to assume that there is a god behind all of it (even though there are different definitions of a god, i would characterize god as a sentient, conscious 'being' that set the universe into motion, starting with the bang).

there might be... but i dont think the default position would be to assume its existence. i'm open to the idea of it. if would be a logical fallacy to be certain that it doesn't exist.

So you are pinned beneath a car, yep a wreck and it's not looking good, will you pray to God to be saved?

[spurraider21]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SNuZ4OE6vCk

... if avante was younger i think this conversation would go a lot easier. asking somebody to reconsider something that has been accepted so firmly for decades is unreasonable, and i get that

[spurraider21]

So you are pinned beneath a car, yep a wreck and it's not looking good, will you pray to God to be saved?

if i could choose to reach for a bible or a cell phone, i'd choose the cell phone.

also i edited my previous comment and added some content... check it out

but please... this sort of questioning does absolutely nothing to enhance the conversation

[Chinook]

So how do we go with Adam and Eve and it took God six days and He rested on the seventh....AND...evolution/BIG BANG?

You've already admitted the bible is bull made up by humans. So don't try jumping back to it now. You can believe god created the universe without believing the spit-balling written by some guys thousands of years ago.

You can't possibly think that the Christian interpretation of god is the only one we have to go on.

[Chinook]

well if we're talking about the christian god as portrayed in the bible and all the tales, like adam and eve, abraham, noah, moses, jesus, and all that... its a different story. i dont buy that one. i dont think the tales of the bible are consistent with each other and with what we know about the earth and the cosmos. as for a more general version of a god, its another thing entirely.

you can ask chinook about it though. he's one of the guys here that is fine with the concept of the big bang, evolution, and is also a believer in god (again, not the christian, biblical god).

as for me... there is all sorts of evidence for the big bang, for evolution. as i've explained to you (and you claim to understand), the only reason those theories exist is because of evidence. where i disagree with theists is:

i dont think we need to assume that there is a god behind all of it (even though there are different definitions of a god, i would characterize god as a sentient, conscious 'being' that set the universe into motion, starting with the bang). the way i see it, our understanding of everything (though nowhere near complete) is rapidly increasing. right now there are questions that science can't definitively answer. a lot of them. and some people... when they reach an unanswered question, turn to god. i dont do so. years ago, scientists thought the earth was the center of the universe, and all the stars and the sun revolved around the earth. the orbits didn't make sense that way though, with the laws of gravity. they didn't add up. it was something science at the time couldn't answer... so it was an accepted idea that the "hand of god" moved the stars and planets, which was their explanation for their unusual motion. of course, the heliocentric (earth revolves around the sun) model fixed all the mathematical inconsistencies, and removed the "hand of god" idea. similarly, while we don't know certain things right now, like the exact cause of the bang... its easy to just place the "hand of god" there again.

there might be... but i dont think the default position would be to assume its existence. i'm open to the idea of it. if would be a logical fallacy to be certain that it doesn't exist.

... did you just pull an Xmas?

[spurraider21]

... did you just pull an Xmas?

i answered the question... its in there somewhere. i said my default position is not to assume the existence of a god.

but if you wanted me to lay it out right now in a yes or no format, it would be a no at this point... while reserving the right to incorporate new informations into new opinions/beliefs

[Chinook]

i answered the question... its in there somewhere. i said my default position is not to assume the existence of a god

I know. You've been clear enough throughout the threads. I just meant responding to a questions that was specifically labeled yes/no with a long response.

[Avante]

... if avante was younger i think this conversation would go a lot easier. asking somebody to reconsider something that has been accepted so firmly for decades is unreasonable, and i get that

Have you paid any attentioon at all? I don't believe in any of that stuff and have said so numerous times.

[spurraider21]

I know. You've been clear enough throughout the threads. I just meant responding to a questions that was specifically labeled yes/no with a long response.

gotcha. but i did include the yes/no in somewhere in the jumbled mess

[spurraider21]

Have you paid any attentioon at all? I don't believe in any of that stuff and have said so numerous times.

lol what? you are flip flopping on this point.

let me ask you this. do you believe jesus, the actual son of god, was alive and crucified?

[Avante]

You've already admitted the bible is bull made up by humans. So don't try jumping back to it now. You can believe god created the universe without believing the spit-balling written by some guys thousands of years ago.

You can't possibly think that the Christian interpretation of god is the only one we have to go on.

I was....obviously...talking about how God is perceived by Christians. So there can be a God, evolution and BIG BANG....right? There just can't be the God of the The Bible....right?

[Avante]

lol what? you are flip flopping on this point.

let me ask you this. do you believe jesus, the actual son of god, was alive and crucified?

I'm not flip flopping at all, I assumed you knew my stance on this. no there was no Jesus, that's simply Hebrew mythology that for some reason we accepted over all the others.

But......there was "something" behind all this and it wasn;t....BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[spurraider21]

so you don't believe that god made the earth in 7 days... that adam and eve were the first two, etc.

this is actually eye opening

[Chinook]

I was....obviously...talking about how God is perceived by Christians. So there can be a God, evolution and BIG BANG....right? There just can't be the God of the The Bible....right?

Pretty much. The idea of god is compatible with science. The idea of religion, whether theistic or atheistic, isn't.

[spurraider21]

Pretty much. The idea of god is compatible with science. The idea of religion, whether theistic or atheistic, isn't.

[Chinook]

so you don't believe that god made the earth in 7 days... that adam and eve were the first two, etc.

this is actually eye opening

From that Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism thread a couple of months back.

Only an idiot buys all that bull [biblical interpretation of god], that's all man man crap. I'm just not dumb enough like you to think this just all happens without some mastrer design. What if we were 1000 miles closer to the sun or 1000 miles further away? What if we rotated faster or slower? Way way too many things have to work in perfect concert to pull this off. Are you really stupid enough o think....yep it just happened.....come on man pull your head out of your ass, ok?


Science? Back in the 40's science came up with just how fast a human could run. They did all their research, did all their studies and came up with.....an Olympic sprinter in peek condition could run a 100m in 9.90 seconds, and that was it.

The world record is 9.58.

Never seen so many dumb posts in one thread before, wow!

If you've delved into evolutuion you know of how weak it all is. Where are all the ...in the process....species? Where are all the gorillas before we got todays gorilla?

I doubt most believers buy the Bible word for word, I don't think anyone really thinks Moses parted the Red Sea. It's not about all that, it's about something above and beyond us.

Only a 100% dumb would think humans evolved from apes and all this just....BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes there is a Master Designer, but I do doubt it's anything like "God" of the Bible, that's just us humans ing things up....again. Something......is behind all this and it's real real obvious.