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  1. #251
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    Well, HH's argument is tough to make in a linear fashion. Sure, the Spurs have proven they can win without a traditional big 3 and as a team, but the questions are two-fold:

    1) While the Spurs have won that way, how sustainable is that? It's incredibly rare and almost never been done before.

    2) With #1 in mind, did the Spurs system work because of the players they currently have being superstars who were able to unselfishly shift their games to make the system work?

    So I don't think it's at all safe to assume that SA, with Tim/TP/Manu gone that they can go on winning with the same strategy because it doesn't seem at all likely you can get a DPG combo again to make that work. Just really tough. Kawhi should be a Spur, but just because other dumb teams make dumb decisions, does not make that market value.

    Spurs have to avoid stupid decisions in a small market with their stars on their way out. That would be like saying me buying a 200K house for 1M sets the market for the entire neighborhood. Sure, some idiots may buy the houses at that value, but it doesn't make it a good finanical decision or that every house will go for that much. I understand that some team will make that offer and that's fine - the right thing to do is wait and match that offer then.
    Did you just make an analogy between houses and players...

  2. #252
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Yes, I did.

  3. #253
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    Well that was terrible...

  4. #254
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Well that was terrible...
    Why?

  5. #255
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Well, HH's argument is tough to make in a linear fashion. Sure, the Spurs have proven they can win without a traditional big 3 and as a team, but the questions are two-fold:

    1) While the Spurs have won that way, how sustainable is that? It's incredibly rare and almost never been done before.

    2) With #1 in mind, did the Spurs system work because of the players they currently have being superstars who were able to unselfishly shift their games to make the system work?

    So I don't think it's at all safe to assume that SA, with Tim/TP/Manu gone that they can go on winning with the same strategy because it doesn't seem at all likely you can get a DPG combo again to make that work. Just really tough. Kawhi should be a Spur, but just because other dumb teams make dumb decisions, does not make that market value.

    Spurs have to avoid stupid decisions in a small market with their stars on their way out. That would be like saying me buying a 200K house for 1M sets the market for the entire neighborhood. Sure, some idiots may buy the houses at that value, but it doesn't make it a good finanical decision or that every house will go for that much. I understand that some team will make that offer and that's fine - the right thing to do is wait and match that offer then.
    i literally just understood what your username is ...

    im usually not that slow, although i rarely actually bored over it

  6. #256
    half man half amazing
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    Well, HH's argument is tough to make in a linear fashion. Sure, the Spurs have proven they can win without a traditional big 3 and as a team, but the questions are two-fold:

    1) While the Spurs have won that way, how sustainable is that? It's incredibly rare and almost never been done before.

    2) With #1 in mind, did the Spurs system work because of the players they currently have being superstars who were able to unselfishly shift their games to make the system work?

    So I don't think it's at all safe to assume that SA, with Tim/TP/Manu gone that they can go on winning with the same strategy because it doesn't seem at all likely you can get a DPG combo again to make that work. Just really tough. Kawhi should be a Spur, but just because other dumb teams make dumb decisions, does not make that market value.

    Spurs have to avoid stupid decisions in a small market with their stars on their way out. That would be like saying me buying a 200K house for 1M sets the market for the entire neighborhood. Sure, some idiots may buy the houses at that value, but it doesn't make it a good finanical decision or that every house will go for that much. I understand that some team will make that offer and that's fine - the right thing to do is wait and match that offer then.
    Small market teams can't afford to let players like Kawhi get away because free agents are simply not going to come to San Antonio. You guys need to realize that if they don't spend this money on Kawhi, it's probably going to be wasted on scrubs.

  7. #257
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    i literally just understood what your username is ...

    im usually not that slow, although i rarely actually bored over it
    Haha - yup. Straightforward and catchy.

  8. #258
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Small market teams can't afford to let players like Kawhi get away because free agents are simply not going to come to San Antonio. You guys need to realize that if they don't spend this money on Kawhi, it's probably going to be wasted on scrubs.
    I'm not arguing lettting him go. Also, Spurs have gotten plenty of FA's and never really had the money to go after major ones. A few have gotten away, I agree, but nothing at the level we are discussing outside of once or twice.

  9. #259
    half man half amazing
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    i literally just understood what your username is ...

    im usually not that slow, although i rarely actually bored over it
    lol. until now, i always thought it stood for dog pound gangster. i guess i've listened to doggystyle too much.

  10. #260
    808s & Heartbreak Kool Bob Love's Avatar
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    i literally just understood what your username is ...

    im usually not that slow, although i rarely actually bored over it
    Woah.

  11. #261
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    lol. until now, i always thought it stood for dog pound gangster. i guess i've listened to doggystyle too much.
    It can be whatever you need it to be.

  12. #262
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    1) While the Spurs have won that way, how sustainable is that? It's incredibly rare and almost never been done before.
    The Spurs won by being far more talented than any other team in the league. If they find a way to keep their talent edge, and that talent buys in, they have as good a chance as any to be a contender for a while, especially since they match up well with pretty much any team. But they absolutely need to get the talent, which is why re-upping Leonard now is potentially destructive. They need to bring in a star or two very good players, and Kawhi being extended is literally wasting $7-8 Million in cap space.

    2) With #1 in mind, did the Spurs system work because of the players they currently have being superstars who were able to unselfishly shift their games to make the system work?
    That's a concern. Finding the talent really isn't going to be that big of an issue, I believe. I do think an SA max offer is something most players are going to heavily consider. There's no question in my mind that Gasol would be in Cen-Tex now had the Spurs had been able to match what Chicago offered. The biggest issue when looking at the 2015 FA class is finding someone who fits what the team wants/needs in terms of talent and culture. Even if players like Aldridge and Love think they will be able to buy in, they may not be able to have the reduced roles Tim and Manu have taken (and they may not need to, but that's another topic).

    So I don't think it's at all safe to assume that SA, with Tim/TP/Manu gone that they can go on winning with the same strategy because it doesn't seem at all likely you can get a DPG combo again to make that work. Just really tough. Kawhi should be a Spur, but just because other dumb teams make dumb decisions, does not make that market value.
    True. Parker/Leonard/Aldridge seems like they can get it done from a talent perspective (with all the other role-players returning). But that'll be nothing like the current Big Three. I imagine they'll go back to an older philosophy, since they'd have a star offensive big who can score at will and who would be surrounded by shooting. I don't think there's any way in the Spurs should try to keep with their same strategy once Tim retires, which is why I think the idea of signing Gasol is a non-starter. However, if they strike out in free agency, then bringing in O'Quinn and a starting-caliber SG may force them to try to keep going the same old way. At that point, the Spurs have to hope that the youngsters can grow into stars, meaning beyond what Kawhi currently is.

    Spurs have to avoid stupid decisions in a small market with their stars on their way out. That would be like saying me buying a 200K house for 1M sets the market for the entire neighborhood. Sure, some idiots may buy the houses at that value, but it doesn't make it a good finanical decision or that every house will go for that much. I understand that some team will make that offer and that's fine - the right thing to do is wait and match that offer then.
    Eh, I've long maintained the stance that contracts only matter in terms of opportunity cost. Leonard's contract size doesn't matter at all if the Spurs are still able to add a star in 2015 and in 2017. That's why avoiding giving him an extension is so critical now. It doesn't matter how much he's overpaid so long as he doesn't ink the deal until after the Spurs go shopping in July.

  13. #263
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    True ^ my house analogy was more to say the Spurs have little margin for error with their market. They have to pay the right guys and do things at the right time.

  14. #264
    Klaw apalisoc_9's Avatar
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    Opportunity cost..How often do you get the chance to sign the third best SG in the league? There's millions of houses to sell...

  15. #265
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    I might open a can of worms with this question, but would you guys say Kawhi > Paul George?

    Because if you think he is, then I think a max deal should be automatic, if you don't think he is, then it's probably more debatable...
    I'd put George ahead of Leonard but I think the real question for the front office is can the Spurs replace Leonard without paying the max. I don't think they can.

  16. #266
    The Dude minds DPG21920's Avatar
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    Opportunity cost..How often do you get the chance to sign the third best SG in the league? There's millions of houses to sell...
    Missing the point. It was about market value and financially wise decisions (both timing of the market and value vs what market is doing i.e. buying a home on the upswing/highpoint, vs waiting),

  17. #267
    Brazil GrandeDavid's Avatar
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    No hate on Kawhi but if they give him the max and he becomes our best and most expensive player (post Duncan era) we'll be fighting to make the playoffs. Take a discount Kawhi you don't need/deserve a Max contract.
    Well-stated! You are so right. It's hard to believe Kawhi Leonard is seeking a max contract with his 12.5 average. Yes, he's a great defender and took advantage of Miami's collapse, but good grief!

    Thanks Kawhi.

  18. #268
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    No player that the Spurs can sign in free agency will be as good a 2 way player as Kawhi. Some of you dudes are delusional.

  19. #269
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    No player that the Spurs can sign in free agency will be as good a 2 way player as Kawhi. Some of you dudes are delusional.
    yeah and his game has really evolved since his rookie season

  20. #270
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    Leonard will have an opportunity to prove he is worth max money this season and that his offensive numbers in the finals were not a fluke. I think Leonard really needs to get 34-35 minutes a game. This season will be huge for him show if he has a one-on-one game. If he develops an offensive game like Paul George he is well worth it.

  21. #271
    wemby enjoyer 100%duncan's Avatar
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    ElNono

    Kawhi>George

  22. #272
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    This is looking like James Harden all over again. I thought the Spurs way was to give up a little money because of loyalty?

  23. #273
    Veteran RD2191's Avatar
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    yeah and his game has really evolved since his rookie season
    God given, tbh.

  24. #274
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    Jesus people, his agent is paid money to get the best deal possible. I doubt Kawhi has some huge ego and is gonna hold the Spurs hostage. In fact, none of you can produce a single quote saying Kawhi is unhappy with the organization. I would bet the house he loves it here and that Pop wont be staying long without him. He wont leave, Spurs arent the rockets, this will get taken care of properly. Yall just cling on to the slightest bit of news and act like schoolgirls and dramatize it because this team doesnt produce enough gossip for you.

  25. #275
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    No player that the Spurs can sign in free agency will be as good a 2 way player as Kawhi. Some of you dudes are delusional.
    Half of this board thinks that Anthony Davis is about to hit free agency (not to mention that Marc Gasol is a viable option)...

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