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  1. #101
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    But, according to anyone who had direct knowledge of the events -- including Democrat CIA Director Leon Panetta, the enhanced interrogation techniques did work to identify and thwart further terrorist attacks after 9/11.
    What a surprise that the CIA Director would say the CIA's techniques were effective!

  2. #102
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Yoni is just a partisan Kool Aid drinker.

    A Republican said assplay was good and proper and desirable and just dandy to have done to Americans. Yoni has been in a constant state of arousal ever since.

    Look, I know Americans felt vulnerable and impotent after 9/11; that's precisely why they went too far to try to make up for their abject failures in their real job before 9/11.

    That does not make it right. Now Yoni is pulling out every excuse used by Japanese and Nazi war criminals -- just following orders, it was war, imminent danger -- proving he is no better than those criminals or the Islamists themselves. He's just that kind of person. He doesn't want America to be exceptional and he is part of the reason it is not seen as exceptional anymore.

  3. #103
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    1) "Rectal Feeding."


    Two phrases leap out at you in the very first pages of the report. Feinstein's authors drop the terms "rectal feeding" and "rectal hydration" on page four, in an early summary of abuses, and then simply move on without explaining:
    At least five CIA detainees were subjected to "rectal rehydration" or rectal feeding without do ented medical necessity. The CIA placed detainees in ice water "baths…"



    As a reader I was really distracted by the use of quotation marks around the term "rectal rehydration" while there was no punctuation at all around rectal feeding. Was I supposed to know what the one was, and not the other?
    Reading on, one at first thinks that these are just fancy terms for simple enemas and force-feedings – techniques the interrogators used to try to cir vent the attempts of terror suspects like Khalid-Sheikh Mohammed and Abu Zubaydah to resist the intake of food and water. In some places, the shoving of water and sustenance up the terror-suspect's backside is described as merely more efficient than IV methods, quoting CIA operatives:


    [W]hile IV infusion is safe and effective, we were impressed with the ancillary effectiveness of rectal infusion in ending water refusal in another case…



    But as you read on, you start to sense a kind of fondness for the rectal procedures that is frankly a little creepy. Sounding like a man describing with satisfaction how well his new remote-control garage-door opener works, one officer reported:


    Regarding the rectal tube, if you place it and open up the IV tubing, the flow will self regulate, sloshing up the large intestines… What I infer is that you get a tube up as far as you can, then open the IV wide. No need to squeeze the bag – let gravity do the work.



    Then, later, you find out that the "rectal hydration" procedures were not only executed to fill resisting suspects with fluid and sustenance. They were also used to put them in a talking mood. The report talks of how "rectal hydration" of KSM was ordered "without a determination of medical need," which the chief interrogator explained was indicative of the questioner's "total control over the detainee."


    In the case of KSM, they used the technique as a means to "clear a person's head," and believed it was helpful in getting him to talk. The report explains that KSM fabricated information during this period, leading to the capture and CIA detention of "two innocent individuals."


    Then, in a classic case of "force drift" – the phenomenon in which the use of one permitted interrogation technique inexorably moves toward harsher and weirder behaviors – the CIA interrogators got downright bizarre with a suspect named Majid Khan:
    Majid Khan's "lunch tray," consisting of hummus, pasta with sauce, nuts, and raisins, was "pureed" and rectally infused.

  4. #104
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    For the record, here is a list of these named permitted techniques, as outlined in the report:


    (1) attention grasp, (2) walling, (3) facial hold, (4) facial slap (insult slap), (5) cramped confinement, (6) wall standing, (7) stress positions, (8) sleep deprivation, (9) insects placed in a confinement box, and (10) the waterboard.



  5. #105
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Sleep Deprivation.
    The report notes
    :

    Beginning the evening of March 18, 2003, KSM began a period of sleep deprivation, most of it in the standing position, which would last for seven and a half days, or approximately 180 hours.



    After I tweeted yesterday that I didn't know 180 hours of sleep deprivation was medically possible, a few meth users emailed me expressing similar surprise. "A hundred, for sure, but you start to fall down and drool after that," wrote one.


    The report is full of descriptions of sleep deprivation efforts, and carefully noted how much each suspect was subjected to. It seems there was a hierarchy: the higher on the suspected-terrorist totem pole, the longer the subject was deprived of sleep.
    A suspected extremist named Gul Rahman (who died, incidentally – more below) got "48 hours of sleep deprivation, auditory overload, total darkness, isolation, a cold shower, and 'rough treatment.'" Meanwhile, a Tunisian named Rafiq Bashir al-Hami, suspected of having ties to some of the "Hamburg Cell" responsible for the 9/11 attacks, got a meth-friendly 72 hours of sleep deprivation. And the "mastermind" KSM got the Guinness-Book 180 hour treatment, most of it standing.


    I knew our government was using sleep deprivation, but 180 hours gets into NKVD/Felix Dzerzhinsky territory. This is classic torture-regime stuff, and one of the better examples of why a sanitary term like "enhanced interrogation" just doesn't cut it.

  6. #106
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    so much for the canard that EITs led to the elimiantion of UBL. the bolded is from the report.

    But the report is pretty clear that they didn't get much, if anything, of value from these techniques. It's littered throughout with examples of mountains of false leads and vast stretches of time wasted. Moreover, many of the instances of intel that supposedly was gleaned by torture turned out, upon closer examination, to have come from information provided before the interrogators started putting people in boxes or revving cordless drills up near their genitalia. The case of the famous Usama bin Laden courier, who is supposed to have lead to the Evil One's capture, is one such example:


    The most accurate information on Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti — a facilitator whose identification and tracking led to the identification of UBL's compound and the operation that resulted in UBL's death — obtained from a CIA detainee was provided by a CIA detainee who had not yet been subjected to the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques; and CIA detainees who were subjected to the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques withheld and fabricated information about Abu Ahmad al-Kuwaiti.

  7. #107
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    at least the rectal feeding of CIA captive was of a proven-healthy "Mediterranean diet"

    When enemies rectally feed a US military captives, will it be a purified BigMac with cheese, 32 oz sugar drink, and large fries?

  8. #108
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    from the report:
    At times, the detainees at COBALT were walked around naked or were shackled with their hands above their heads for extended periods of time. Other times, the detainees at COBALT were subjected to what was described as a "rough takedown," in which approximately five CIA officers would scream at a detainee, drag him outside of his cell, cut his clothes off, and secure him with Mylar tape. The detainee would then be hooded and dragged up and down a long corridor while being slapped and punched.


  9. #109
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    add insects:

    Over the course of [an] entire 20-day "aggressive phase of interrogation," Abu Zubaydah spent a total of 266 hours (11 days, 2 hours) in the large (coffin size) confinement box and 29 hours in a small confinement box, which had a width of 21 inches, a depth of 2.5 feet, and a height of 2.5 feet. The CIA interrogators told Abu Zubaydah that the only way he would leave the facility was in the coffin-shaped confinement box.



  10. #110
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    so much for the canard that EITs led to the elimiantion of UBL. the bolded is from the report.


    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...#ixzz3LbZssbKI

    [/COLOR][/LEFT]
    rolling stone = breitbart

  11. #111
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    rolling stone = breitbart
    False equivalence and lies are ALL you right-wingers have.

  12. #112
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    rolling stone = breitbart
    the report is the report

  13. #113
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    are you ashamed to read it?

  14. #114
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Not really. I just don't share your Guantanamo guilt. The "torture" sounds like not much more than old school fraternity hazing. it's not like they were drilling on their teeth without novocaine and asking "isss it safe"?

    Blowing up suspected terrorists and their families with drone mounted fire missiles is much more humane.

    for those that didn't get the reference...

    Last edited by CosmicCowboy; 12-11-2014 at 11:41 AM.

  15. #115
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    often claimed, but never shown. US Senators who reviewed the program -- and were briefed in detail on it-- do not think so.
    And six CIA Directors (including those that served Democrat administrations) say they're lying. , President Obama even changed his tune on the matter after taking office.

    does not prove that no other means effective means to get the same information existed. it does not prove torture necessary, nor does tactical expedience justify torture. it's immoral, illegal and inhumane according to laws and conventions the US has already agreed to.
    Again, you're discounting the context in which these decisions were made and the CIA did not feel they had the luxury to use less time-efficient measures.

    There is still no legal finding that what was done cons uted torture. There is, however, Justice Department do entation that show why the administration does not believe what was done cons uted torture.

    Start naming the laws that were broken.

    it's hard to think of any torture worse than being jailed unjustly, indefinitely and abusively.
    Oh, I can think of a few but, long-term detention isn't the subject of the report. Once again, you're conflating detention with the use of enhanced interrogation techniques to extract information from high-value terrorists.

    read the ing report. did you catch the part about detaining innocent family members to put pressure on bad guys?
    So far, I've heard nothing that moves the needle for me. Why? Because I'm satisfied the techniques resulted in actionable intelligence that prevented the deaths of thousands. I'm satisfied the administration went to extraordinary lengths to define the bright line between torture and the enhanced techniques they ended up using. I'm satisfied that after a dozen years of whining about torture and war crimes, not one criminal complaint has been forwarded in any court -- domestic or international, seeking the prosecuting of anyone involved in the program.

    I know you'll carry on but, as for me, it's ancient history the left continues to want to litigate in spite of losing every argument so far.

    Reminds me of the light rail lunatics in Austin. The public keeps rejecting their proposition but, they keep bringing it up, every election.

  16. #116
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Eric Holders ed up politically partisan justice department couldn't even find that any crimes had been committed.

  17. #117
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    the report is the report
    And a very flawed report at that.



    I'm not in favor of withholding publication of the Senate Committee report because 1) the United States doesn't cede control of our public discourse to terrorists and 2) I think it, once again, demonstrates the unwavering tendentiousness and pettiness of Left in this country. But, since the report originates in our Congress, I think it's publication demands a statement of rationale for publishing. What purpose is being served by it's publication? It calls for no remedial action. It doesn't even reveal anything new -- or that which is purported to be new can't be viewed as reliable, give the absurd self-imposed limitations of the Committee's investigation. What possible justification is there for not interviewing anyone from the agency you're investigating?

    Sorry, I don't discern a clear purpose other than Dianne Feinstein is pissed and wanted to exact some parting revenge as she is removed from her Chair in January.

    If you see a clear purpose for releasing a one-sided, partisan, re-hashed report -- the administration fears endangers Americans worldwide -- I'd like to hear it.

  18. #118
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    John Yoo, American hero.

    if there was a Rushmore for civil servants, that guy would have to be on it.

  19. #119
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Sure there is a political component to the release of the summary now.

    So what?

    The public has a right to know about assplay being done in their name.

    You got a chance to voice your support for assplay done in your name, which you quickly and eagerly did.

  20. #120
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    It's all old news and the Senate Democrats know it.

    What purpose was served in releasing a report containing information everyone knew?

    And, at what point do you weigh the possible negatives (security of Americans around the world) with whatever purpose you can conjure up? I'd still like to see a rationale from Feinstein for releasing this do ent.

  21. #121
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    It's all old news and the Senate Democrats know it.

    What purpose was served in releasing a report containing information everyone knew?

    And, at what point do you weigh the possible negatives (security of Americans around the world) with whatever purpose you can conjure up? I'd still like to see a rationale from Feinstein for releasing this do ent.
    You're trying to have it both ways.

    You're saying everyone already knows all of this, but the people who you say already know this will somehow act differently regarding the security of Americans around the world.

    Pick a lane.

    Does everyone already know everything or not?

  22. #122
    Get Refuel! FromWayDowntown's Avatar
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    .

  23. #123
    I don't really care... Yonivore's Avatar
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    Gruber didn't write ACA.

    "Full disclosure, I helped write the bill.

  24. #124
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    For the record, here is a list of these named permitted techniques, as outlined in the report:


    (1) attention grasp, (2) walling, (3) facial hold, (4) facial slap (insult slap), (5) cramped confinement, (6) wall standing, (7) stress positions, (8) sleep deprivation, (9) insects placed in a confinement box, and (10) the waterboard.
    Sucks that our govt spent so much time and money coming up with these things. They could have just forced the terrorists to be contestants on Fear Factor.

  25. #125
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    totally disingenuous, SnakeBoy, and not at all funny.

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