Spurs: The chain of alphas in league history

[Clipper Nation]

2009-2010: Kobe

No.

[Mr Bones]

Bill Russell wins 11 championships in 13 years and doesn't even get an honorable mention? This is why I don't like the term Alpha... Guys like Jerry West and Oscar Robertson said Russell was the single biggest obstacle preventing them from winning year after year. You don't win that frequently against your contemporaries without being a dominant player. Yesterday, after Westbrook's game, his own coach said he shot too much, and numerous opposing players said Westbrook dominating the ball helped their cause. He's an alpha, but he's an alpha with a low BBIQ. No one ever said that about Bill Russell.

[Killakobe81]

I would start LeBrons reign a year or two sooner. He had won back to back MVPs by 2010. Kirby deserves a year at most, probably '08.

Mehh still needed to win tough to give it without that but I don't care enough to argue that ...LeBron was great.

[DAF86]

Lebron put up great stats, but it's not like Dirk was incomparable. Dirk was putting up 26.6 on 48% (41% on threes), 9 rebounds and 3 assists. But Dirk was dominating the league at that point. he was leading the Mavs to new heights, contending in the rough western conference with an iffy supporting cast.

Put it any way you want it but in '06 Dirk Nowitzki wasn't individually better than Lebron James.

[lefty]

I agree with ambchang on Hakeem

[ambchang]

The entire point of being alpha is you are the best and are a mismatch in any matchup.

Lakers in early 2000s had Kobe Shaq Horry and a bunch of scrubs. Samaki Walker and Rick Fx.

Are you trying to compare Kobe to Josh Howard? I mean, you are talking about the best second fiddle of all time vs. a pot-head. Come on.

First off, the Spurs weren't stacked to that extent (the Heat's three max players were in their prime). Second, the Heat's best player choked hard that year. The Spurs best player in '06 (Duncan) didn't. Not sure why you keep making dumb comparisons.

I used your criteria, and you kept changing them. At the end of the day, there will be no two situations that is exactly the same, but the principal point is the same.

Hope you're proud to be in the 1% that would make that choice.

You did a poll?

So Nash>Dirk>Duncan? Let's give the mid 00s slot to Nash then if you want to bring up MVPs.

When did I say that? MVP was all but a consideration.

Well none of them shot in the mid 30s for one. Then there's the compe ion, you bring up how alphas fared against great teams/defenses to justify how Dirk fared against an 8th seed Nelly squad. There's bounce back games, Dirk pretty much bent over and spread his cheeks all series. The end result, most of the guys you listed won those series.

Most of those guys had better help.

Well, that and the fact that he had another first round exit the following year and came up short in the Finals the previous year. Or to summarize he didn't win during the time you claim he was the alpha of the league...isn't that an oxymoron?

Since when is making the Finals a dent to a legacy?

Winning a championship requires more than an alpha, it requires good management, that's why Jordan was already an alpha in the late 80s, and Wilt was the alpha over Russell back in the day, and Kareem was the alpha even in the late 70s.

So that play gives him the nod even though Duncan scored more points and was asked to anchor a defense?

Part of it.

smh wow

'04 Billups: 16.4 ppg, 5.9 apg, 3.0 rpg on 39% shooting
'07 Duncan: 22.2 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 3.3 apg, 3.1 bpg on 52% shooting

04 Billups: 11.3 WS
07 Duncan: 13.0 WS

Pretty close.

Put it any way you want it but in '06 Dirk Nowitzki wasn't individually better than Lebron James.

He was.

[Infinite_limit]

Hakeem "First Round lose" Dream

[DAF86]

He was.

Very compelling point.

[ambchang]

Very compelling point.

About as compelling as this:

Put it any way you want it but in '06 Dirk Nowitzki wasn't individually better than Lebron James.

[DAF86]

About as compelling as this:

Yeah, it's not like I had previously posted Lebron's stats in comparisson to Dirk's or something like that.

[ambchang]

Yeah, it's not like I had previously posted Lebron's stats in comparisson to Dirk's or something like that.

And it's not like I haven't written paragraphs supporting Dirk > Lebron

[djohn2oo8]

Hakeem "First Round lose" Dream

He was in the finals in his second year. Why did you cut that out?

[Sean Cagney]

As much as I like Dirk, he doesn't belong on that list. The Mavs were not a force long enough for him to be there. You have to consider Kobe, like it or not. Winning b2b FMVP at least puts him in the conversation, unless you want to bias the results.

^^^^ This.

Hakeem "First Round lose" Dream

As someone said he made the finals before that and actually there is two finals wins on there so how does that prove a point? Yes first round exits but how many players to three finals and win one?

[DAF86]

And it's not like I haven't written paragraphs supporting Dirk > Lebron

Would you care to resume that in a 2 or 3 lines paragraph for me? 'Cause to tell you the truth I haven't read the wall of words you and my FkLA were writing, tbh.

[ambchang]

Would you care to resume that in a 2 or 3 lines paragraph for me? 'Cause to tell you the truth I haven't read the wall of words you and my FkLA were writing, tbh.

This site is blocked on my work computer so it's tough to type. Just go back in this thread will you?

[FkLA]

Would you care to resume that in a 2 or 3 lines paragraph for me? 'Cause to tell you the truth I haven't read the wall of words you and my FkLA were writing, tbh.

cliff notes: win shares trumps all, basically Dirk is the alpha of 06-08 and '04 Billups is equivalent to '07 Duncan because WS says so

Also losing a Finals despite a 2-0 series lead and a 14 pt lead heading into the 4th Qtr of Game 3 one year, then following it up with two first round exits including the greatest choke of all-time doesn't put a dent on your legacy.

[Killakobe81]

cliff notes: win shares trumps all, basically Dirk is the alpha of 06-08 and '04 Billups is equivalent to '07 Duncan because WS says so

Also losing a Finals despite a 2-0 series lead and a 14 pt lead heading into the 4th Qtr of Game 3 one year, then following it up with two first round exits including the greatest choke of all-time doesn't put a dent on your legacy.

LOL

[ambchang]

cliff notes: win shares trumps all, basically Dirk is the alpha of 06-08 and '04 Billups is equivalent to '07 Duncan because WS says so

Also losing a Finals despite a 2-0 series lead and a 14 pt lead heading into the 4th Qtr of Game 3 one year, then following it up with two first round exits including the greatest choke of all-time doesn't put a dent on your legacy.

Duncan lost vs. the Lakers after going up 2-0.
Duncan lost in the first round as the 2nd seed.
But no, those things only affect Dirk's legacy.

[FkLA]

What is up with you and your stupid comparisons? Hopefully you are just trolling tbh.

[ambchang]

What is up with you and your stupid comparisons? Hopefully you are just trolling tbh.

What is up with you and your stupid double standards? Hopefully you are just trolling.

[Thread]

What is up with you and your stupid double standards? Hopefully you are just trolling.

amb is on the rag again.

[Splits]

Fine. You're back on the list.

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[Thread]

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[Splits]

You're chock full of .

BB busted your hole. Busted it real good.

[Thread]

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You're chock full of .