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LakaLuva
You see I'm only going to let you s have so much fun before I come laying down the law.
Greg Ostertag's Legendary Domination of Tim Duncan
7/11/2007
- ESPN.com
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It has been the best line of summer league. Maurice Cheeks has used it. P.J. Carlesimo has used it. Every journalist here, practically, has quoted it.
It's a story about how great players can have terrible games in their first summer league. And the story is that Greg Ostertag killed Tim Duncan in his first summer league appearance.
I linked to such a quote, from Cheeks, the other day, and enterprising TrueHoop reader Cyn spent a day at the library going through old newspaper stories proving Cheeks wrong.
Cyn writes:As for Ostertag 'killing' TD ... that's a matter of opinion.I appreciate the legwork, Cyn.
Certainly the Utah team killed the combined summer league team of the Spurs and 76ers, as the final score was Jazz 85 and Spurs/76ers 59. Ouch.
Ostertag was a second year player. The article describes Ostertag as going up to slam a dunk on Duncan, but he hit the back rim instead.
Ostertag did block some of Tim's shots. The article doesn't specify how many but Ostertag had six blocks in the game.
Anyway, here are the boxscore lines from both players:
- Tim Duncan 14 points/6 of 10 FG/8 rebs/3 assists/2 blocks
- Greg Ostertag 21 points/7 of 12 FG/10 rebs/0 assists/5 blocks
Tim fouled out of the game getting his sixth foul at 2:52 of the fourth quarter. Maurice Cheeks got the game wrong (fifth not first) and while 'killed' might be harsh; Ostertag did get the better of Tim.
This story has been used to laugh off performances like Kevin Durant's 4 for 19 in his second game. I'm not worried about Kevin Durant's future. But I am worried about using a tale of a player who shot 60% from the floor to explain a player who shot 21%.
UPDATE: Tim Duncan spoke about that experience with Slam's Lang Whitaker: "Jermaine (O'Neal) destroyed me. He was with Portland, was real young ... and Tag threw my stuff into the first couple of rows a few times."
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/3635/greg-ostertag-s-legendary-domination-of-tim-duncan
Once Upon a Time…Tim Duncan Had the Summer League Blues
July 21st, 2013 | by Kyle Hunt
Even the greatest NBA players of all time are susceptible to hunger, fatigue, the common cold, and streaky shooting in games of significant importance. But history teaches us that star athletes (and potential star athletes), are held to a higher standard of excellence than common citizens like you and I. With the weight of the world on their shoulders, these young players dive head first into the pressure cooker known as NBA summer league, often ill-prepared for the blistering heat that awaits them. Once upon a time, a player named Tim Duncan experienced his own version of NBA growing pains known as the summer league blues. This is his story.
It was only a few short weeks after draft day and Tim Duncan had already begun his intensive program of individual skill development, team drills, and physical training in preparation for the 1997 NBA summer league season. He had been highly coveted by teams all over the league after capping off an impressive four-year career with Wake Forest University the previous year, but in the end the San Antonio Spurs were the only ones lucky enough to land the Virgin Islands native. No one questioned Duncan’s superior talent in the weeks leading up to summer league, but fans and opponents still waited anxiously to see if he could meet the high expectations placed upon him. What later ensued would shock everyone in the basketball world, including Tim Duncan himself.
While matching up with Jermaine O’neal of the Portland Trailblazers, Duncan scored 12 points on 5/9 shooting and grabbed 7 rebounds, compared to O’neal’s 23 points on 8/13 shooting. The even bigger shock came when Greg Ostertag of the Utah Jazz made Duncan look like a school boy with little to no basketball experience. Oddly enough, Duncan scored only 14 points on 6/10 shooting, compared to Ostertag’s 21 points on 7/12 shooting to go along with 10 rebounds. No doubt, the Greg Ostertag pill was a tough one for Duncan to swallow. Duncan had come into summer league as the king of basketball, with all the potential in the world. He left with his head between his legs. But while the media began its debate about whether Tim Duncan should even be admitted into the NBA the following year, Duncan was already busy preparing to answer the criticism, which he later did when he took home NBA Rookie of the Year honors in 1998. As Duncan’s career drew on he added to his rookie success and managed to silence more doubters along the way, making 14 all-star appearances, winning two MVP’s, three finals MVP’s, and leading the San Antonio Spurs franchise to four championships in five NBA finals appearances.
Tim Duncan wasn’t the only one to transform believers into doubters during the summer months. Ten years after Duncan’s summer blues at the Rocky Mountain Revue, another hyped player burst onto the NBA stage ready to solidify himself as one of the best in the game. The Texas University alum Kevin Durant played admirably at times, but struggled for the better part of the 2007 summer league season, leading the media to lace words such as “disappointment” and “overrated” throughout their daily articles. In one blog post, The Wages of Win Journal respectfully reminded basketball fans that over the course of the summer league tournament in Vegas, Durant only managed to pull down eight rebounds in 137 minutes of play, a number surpassed by over 99 percent of NBA players in the previous 14 years. He also struggled to shoot well from the field, scoring only .73 points per field goal attempt, an average surpassed by over 96 percent of NBA players since 1993-1994. Though the numbers were surprising at the time, everyone knows that Durant, like Duncan before him, also found a way to beat the odds and reach his full potential. If the summer blunders of Durant and Duncan aren’t enough to shock you, think about Derrick Rose going 5/17 from the field in 2008 and Jrue Holiday going 15 for 39 in 2009. Barring the severe injury of Derrick Rose, the above mentioned players have panned out pretty well. So now we must wonder, what does this all say about the summertime woes of our own Trey Burke?
Everyone in Jazz land is still wondering what happened to Trey Burke’s game this summer. He definitely hasn’t performed like the Michigan wonder we know him to be, and even though no one can find any rhyme or reason behind his recent lack of success, everyone is still desperately searching for a descriptive answer to the situation. Only time will tell how this situation will play out, and I suggest you cut him some slack. Ask yourself if you believe Trey Burke is a bust waiting to be exposed; or if like Duncan, he’s just experiencing a minor bout of the summer league blues.
http://saltcityhoops.com/once-upon-a...eague-blues-2/
LakaLuva
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73672Tim Duncan's Summer League 1997
Game 1
Dallas-78
San Antonio-77
Duncan 16 pts/8 of 13 FG/10 rbs/3 ast/5 blocks/31 minutes
Game 2
Seattle-91
San Antonio-101
Duncan 13 points/4 of 9 FG/6 rebs/5 ast/1 block/29 minutes
Game 3
Phoenix-84
San Antonio-76
I don't have boxscore as it was a late game so the San Antonio paper didn't have it. Nor did they print it the following day. Sorry. Maybe someone else can track it down.
Game 4
Portland-79
San Antonio-87
Duncan 12 points/5 of 9 FG/7 rebs/3 asts/5 blocks/26 minutes
J.O'Neal 23 points/8 of 13 FG/2 rebs/0 asts/0 blocks/31 minutes (Portland 2nd year)
Game 5
Utah-85
San Antonio-59
Duncan 14 points/6 of 10 FG/8 rebs/3 assists/2 blocks
Ostertag 21 points/7 of 12 FG/10 rebs/0 assists/5 blocks
Learn to copy and paste naturo.
Do, Tim Duncan's summer league averages were:
13.75 PPG
7.75 RPG
3.5 APG
3.25 BPG
56% FG%
Yeah, what a failure of epic proportions.
Jim came out as a four year college player and hands down the number one pick in the draft. Jermaine Oneal was coming out of High School and Ostertag was a scrub. They both outplayed Jim. Jim had a sub-par summer league than was expected.
^ O'Neal was in his 2nd summer league with 45 games under his belt.
Tim may have been "sub-par" but nothing like we're seeing from 1/2 of the Lakers roster in Vegas.
lakerfan still trying
You know what I just realized? This is just another example of how Jim is nothing but a system player. He never won in HS, College, NBA Summer League... the Olympics... or YMCA pickup play. Only under Pop's system.
But your draft picks just aren't "sub-par," in Summer League, they're straight garbage.
I do think Russell will be a good player. Can't teach his size or court vision, but Randle is headed for the scrap heap.
Pop didn't have a "system" in Tim's prime. It was post Duncan while others stand around and wait for a pass from a Duncan double team. Why do you think the Spurs scored in like the 80's? They were built on defense, which again, was centered on Duncan.
Kobe, however, has never won anything outside of the Triangle.
Olympics. I've already shown that he got outplayed by nearly every SG/SF counterpart in Olympic play, from no names to Rudy Fernandez.
Kobe won in HS... he would have at Duke... he dominated Summer League... he won in the Olympics... and he dominated his era by being the first to win 5 les.Pop didn't have a "system" in Tim's prime. It was post Duncan while others stand around and wait for a pass from a Duncan double team. Why do you think the Spurs scored in like the 80's? They were built on defense, which again, was centered on Duncan.
Kobe, however, has never won anything outside of the Triangle.
Why did he ride the pine his first 2 years, miss the playoffs in his prime, and destroy your team to the worst seasons in franchise history?
High school les
Kobe can't win outside the Triangle. Tim has won les playing in two entirely different systems, being the best player in the each of them.
Kobe was a non-factor in the Olympics.
Dale Harris had the foresight of a 20 year old hooker that think her prime will last until she's 30. I'm ok with missing the playoffs. Being mediocre is what hurts.
Well you're more of a man than your hero, since he quits once he realizes missing the playoffs in inevitable.
And I'm pretty sure his name is Del, not Dale
16 post on a thread about Tim and the Laker fans have not posted a reference of Amy or 's
in it yet.....The world will end tomorrow............
No worries there.
Well I guess okafor is really better than Duncan. You got us there lake fan. Big oak has a long way to go before he actually surpasses big fundamental but at least he has the early early lead over summer league Tim. Oh what's that? The Lakers picked the poor man's Manu?
I don't think Okafor is or will ever be nearly as good as Tim, not even close. Okafor won't be much better than the prime version of the other Okafor (a distant relative of his), while Duncan is a player of a generation imho.
You can have that... I will keep Duncan continuing to dominate regardless of the era.
You guys don't know the real story here...Ostertag didn't outplay TD..lol...are you kidding me
TD was only allowed to use his left hand ( instructed by Pop ) in the Ostertag game.
Pop had him focus on a different aspect offensively in each pre-season game but in the Jazz game he could only use his left
This just proves that you can't accurately predict player success from summer league.
duncans summer league>>>>kirbs summer in colorado
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