Jimmer Fredette to the Spurs (Update: Mostly Non-Guaranteed Training Camp Deal)

[Spurtacular]

Nothing to do with spacing the floor, but I agree he's better off the dribble than some would imply.

Pick n' roll offense; especially high pick n' roll offense in Jimmer's case creates floor spacing. If you don't get that, then maybe you're not the basketball mind you think you are.

[Chinook]

Exept that it is. The black line is all threes; and the purple line is threes from 25 to 29 feet. You'll notice the 53.7 percent. But you go ahead and keep telling me how Jimmer can't space the floor.

The purple line has the same value as the black line. So it literally doesn't matter if he shoots 30-foot shots better than anyone else if he doesn't shoot regular threes better. If anything, it's pretty damning to him that he can shoot so much better on long threes and still not make a dent in his regular three numbers. Also, completely ignoring that 18 percent from last year.

[Chinook]

Pick n' roll offense; especially high pick n' roll offense in Jimmer's case creates floor spacing. If you don't get that, then maybe you're not the basketball mind you think you are.

No. The numbers you cited are for Jimmer as a ball-handler. He's not opening up driving lanes or post-ups by running a PnR. He could be opening up threes for others, but those guys would be spacing the floor, not him. I'm sure Jimmer's gonna be the ball-handler for the Spurs.

[Spurtacular]

The purple line has the same value as the black line. So it literally doesn't matter if he shoots 30-foot shots better than anyone else if he doesn't shoot regular threes better. If anything, it's pretty damning to him that he can shoot so much better on long threes and still not make a dent in his regular three numbers. Also, completely ignoring that 18 percent from last year.

It does matter. If Jimmer's posting up at 28 feet and the defender has to slide out further. You don't think LMA doesn't want that extra space to penetrate the lane or KL doesn' want that extra space on the elbow or Timmy doesn't want the extra room to operate on the low post? Of course it matters. You're just making yourself look foolish at this point.

[Nathan89]

If you got more excited when the greater contract info was released this info should do the opposite. It's not like they are bringing in some scrub to tryout. They are bringing in someone that many on here wanted months ago to fill out the roster. Jimmer still has a chance but he'll have to outplay more people now.

[Spurtacular]

No. The numbers you cited are for Jimmer as a ball-handler. He's not opening up driving lanes or post-ups by running a PnR. He could be opening up threes for others, but those guys would be spacing the floor, not him. I'm sure Jimmer's gonna be the ball-handler for the Spurs.

On Pn'R Jimmer gets into the lane (where he shot great from last season despite his long distance shooting woes) and forces the defense to converge. That in turn opens up space. Seriously, this is basketball 101. You're totally blinded by your Jimmer hate.

[Spurtacular]

If you got more excited when the greater contract info was released this info should do the opposite. It's not like they are bringing in some scrub to tryout. They are bringing in someone that many on here wanted months ago to fill out the roster. Jimmer still has a chance but he'll have to outplay more people now.

Technically. But I don't think Rasual is likely more than a contingency option at this point.

[cd98]

Jimmer is going to have to earn his roster spot, no doubt, but the Spurs didn't need to sign him to a partially guaranteed contract. If they didn't think he could play and spread the floor, they wouldn't have made him an offer. I think they see his skill set as one that can shoot the open jumper and space the floor, regardless of what you conclude from a few clips. Will he be the best floor spacer in the NBA? Probably not. But I think they are fine with him doing an early P n' R and I think they believe he can be a knock down shooter in the spot up. No doubt he has a good touch from range, and if he needed to tweak his form, I'm sure he could.

[Spurtacular]

Jimmer is an untapped gold mine. at all these fools riding, Rasual.

[ceperez]

Jimmer is an untapped gold mine. at all these fools riding, Rasual.

Impressive! But you failed to quote his time in New Orleans... which was a disaster.

[Spurtacular]

Impressive! But you failed to quote his time in New Orleans... which was a disaster.

I believe Jimmer's shown what he can do. I'm not concerned with NOL; except to say that his 2 shooting and defense improved while he was there.

[Nathan89]

You've posted those type of number numerous times before tbh. I'm not concern with his offensive contributions like many others on here. If his defense is as bad as Tony he has no place on the team and some were saying that on here. I don't watch him much at all but if that's where he's at he'll be unplayable.

[tholdren]

Oh no. Are we having a Butler vs Fredette argument?. The horror, the horror

The argument should be Butler Versus Anderson/Simmons/Thomas/Williams TBH. Jimmy is a PG/SG and Butler is a SF. Here are the Camp Invites:

Aldridge #12 F
Anderson #1 G/F
Bonner #15 F/C
Butler #18 G/F
Diaw #33 F
Duncan #21 F
Fredette #16 G
Ginobili #20 G
Green #14 G/F
Kawhi #2 F
Boban #40 C
McCallum #3 G
Mills #8 G
Ndoye #35 C
Parker #9 G
Simmons #17 F
Sykes #28 G
Thomas #4 F
West #30 F
Williams #55 F

With that being said, Butler had a NEGATIVE PER last year in the playoffs. I don't know if I would want him over Simmons or Williams. I don't see this as a threat to Fredette's chances to make the team.

[ChumpDumper]

Jimmer is an untapped gold mine. at all these fools riding, Rasual.

Cherry-picked Mormon paper stats.

[tholdren]

Cherry-picked Mormon paper stats.

not as bad as the 3% of Butler last year when he had a -3 PER in the playoffs for a decent team.

[Chinook]

It does matter. If Jimmer's posting up at 28 feet and the defender has to slide out further.

No, and this is why it's clear you don't understand spacing. Jimmer shooting from 28 feet is the equivalent of an average shooter shooting from 23 feet. His man can totally help off him and recover. That was obvious last year, but even in his peak years, his guys were all over him whenver he spotted up inside 25 feet. Now, if Mills or Green could shoot from that far that accurately, that would be one thing. But Jimmer shoots that far because he has to -- not because he can. That's why he barely shoots from the corners, because those are the shortest threes and thus the easiest ones to recover from.

On Pn'R Jimmer gets into the lane (where he shot great from last season despite his long distance shooting woes) and forces the defense to converge. That in turn opens up space. Seriously, this is basketball 101. You're totally blinded by your Jimmer hate.

No, no, no. That's not how spacing works. Spacing allows driving lanes to open. Driving lanes don't open space. They force movement and rotations, but that's not spacing. Parker driving didn't create space from Green. Green's shooting created space for Parker's drives. And Parker in turn forced the rotation to get Danny open. Jimmer might be able to force movement by driving, because as you said, he's not bad at it. The issue is that he will need the ball in his hands to do that, and he isn't in line to be a ball-handler.

[ChumpDumper]

not as bad as the 3% of Butler last year when he had a -3 PER in the playoffs for a decent team.

You're right -- that's a worse example of cherry picking.

If the Spurs play either of these guys major minutes in the playoffs, they're dead in the water anyway.

[Chinook]

Jimmer is an untapped gold mine. at all these fools riding, Rasual.

Yes, his Sacramento shooting numbers are pretty good, because despite what you think, he was allowed to hog the ball his time there. When he went to Chicago and NO, he had to play off the ball more (which is why his assisted three rate went from 60 percent in SAC to 75 percent in CHI and 89 percent in NO). As he moved to a spot-up role (like the one he's trying for with the Spurs), his shooting fell apart. That's because he's a poor floor-spacer. He can create his own shot, two- or three-pointer. But that doesn't work in the context of a normal Spurs offense. I guess if Manu is hurt, Jimmer might have a couple of decent rotation games as the backup two. But he's not going to get the ball in the normal rotation, and he doesn't play well off the ball.

[Gladney to see you]

I don't know what to think after so many pages other than he won't be here past Jan probably. Of the highlights I've seen he seemed to do real well with the pick and roll with Cousins and the few times he was on the court with Anthony Davis. I don't think he wants to be a spot up shooter going by what I saw in this thread. Just like I don't think he will ever be willing to put the time in to be a semi-decent defender. I do hope to get a chance to see him play with our best players...JUST to see.

[Seventyniner]

Spacing the floor is mainly about two things: catch-and-shoot accuracy and quickness of release. Both of these determine how close a defender has to stay to the shooter. Jimmer is not good at either of those, so his ability to space the floor will not be good until and unless he improves in both areas. It's not just about 3FG%, especially if you choose to ignore last season and only look at the three before that.

[benfti]

Im changing my mind on the idea of the Jimmer. I think Pop and Chip can get him being a useful piece. talking smack about him being the same as Patty though is bezerk

[tholdren]

Spacing the floor is mainly about two things: catch-and-shoot accuracy and quickness of release. Both of these determine how close a defender has to stay to the shooter. Jimmer is not good at either of those, so his ability to space the floor will not be good until and unless he improves in both areas. It's not just about 3FG%, especially if you choose to ignore last season and only look at the three before that.

I really wish anyone who posts about "release" could go into detail as either a player, or a coach, when release mattered. Kevin Martin says o

[Spurtacular]

I don't know what to think after so many pages other than he won't be here past Jan probably.

We'll see.

[Seventyniner]

I really wish anyone who posts about "release" could go into detail as either a player, or a coach, when release mattered. Kevin Martin says o

Matt Bonner says goodbye. If he had that slow of a release as a guard he'd never get a three off. Another way of describing a player's ability to space the floor is "gravity", or how much he pulls defenders towards himself when he doesn't have the ball. The elite players in this category are guys like Korver, Danny, Curry, etc. A slow release allows defenders to sag off more so they can help elsewhere.

[Nathan89]

If I had just read this thread I'd think Jimmer gets blocked on all his three point attempts. If his defense is decent I expect him to make the team.