Fathead Vs. Marco

[100%duncan]

Idk, as good as he fits on paper, it seemed like he bricked every shot we needed him to hit last season.

[ceperez]

The point though is that Marco was more of a known quan y. You know what he does well and what he doesn't do well.

Anderson is limited too right now, but he's still developing, which is both good and bad. Good because he can get better, bad because it's hard to play him in high stakes games when you don't know if he's able to raise to the occasion.

Which is why I think he will still have a minimal role this season. I think Pop is still watching him and Simms to grasp what he has there and how to use them. It doesn't mean Kyle is not good enough, just that he's not a known quan y just yet. His time will eventually come.

Well that's something that Pop has to figure out if it is worth the risk. Simmons and Anderson have never played in a playoff game and we will never know if they can if they aren't put in the court. They have to be played otherwise the older guys are going to be exhausted playing and will run out of gas either in the game or in a series. NBA playoff series are beginning to look more like marathons than 100 meter dashes.

[Kawhitstorm]

he's also #70 of 75 in 2014 too he was #50 of 54 the year before too (at the same time DG was #1 )

What are you talking about? He was exposed just as bad last year with the likes of Timmy, Kawhi and Danny. He's been a zero on defense for his entire career.

He was playable (at least NET zero) w/ the Spurs/Bulls(2013 playoffs) but a net NEGATIVE elsewhere as a rotation player b/c of Tim/Kawhi/Danny & Noah/Butler/Taj bailing him out. The Spurs system was the PERFECT fit for him on BOTH ends of the floor but alas he ended up in an insane asylum.

[ElNono]

Well that's something that Pop has to figure out if it is worth the risk. Simmons and Anderson have never played in a playoff game and we will never know if they can if they aren't put in the court. They have to be played otherwise the older guys are going to be exhausted playing and will run out of gas either in the game or in a series. NBA playoff series are beginning to look more like marathons than 100 meter dashes.

I don't disagree. I actually think the West being generally weaker this season will open up more opportunities for Kyle and Simms to show their stuff. It's just the Warriors don't wanna give us a break and I think as long as we're close to catching them we're still going to give our best shot out there.

[bic50]

Would rather have kyle tbh

[silverblackfan]

They are not hopeless. Reluctant to shoot the 3 yes, but very dangerous doing other things. As long as they can hit it when open and keep improving on the shot, they are better in the long run. Not even next to our starters Marco had a defensive rating like a 22 yr old Kyle (who by the way has seen his share of funky lineups and garbage time and rarely benefits from playing next to Kawhi. His defense is what has kept him playing and why Pop has been so strict with him.)

This. I think Pop in general is tired of players that don't defend. This team has limited minutes and Kyle has to earn then defensively. Weird as that sounds.

[Spurtacular]

I think Pop's was more interested in trying to keep Cojo

We knew we wouldn't be able to pay Marco. There was some faint hope that CoJo would be able to be signed at a bargain basement price for a year.

[ElNono]

The biggest issue for Kyle is that he's playing behind Kawhi, who is both young and extremely talented. Even playing as a stretch 4, Bobo has that position locked up. He's just in a tough situation minutes wise, but as we rest some of those guys or if we continue to manage to blow teams away, he'll get his chances.

[spursistan]

The point though is that Marco was more of a known quan y. You know what he does well and what he doesn't do well.

Anderson is limited too right now, but he's still developing, which is both good and bad. Good because he can get better, bad because it's hard to play him in high stakes games when you don't know if he's able to raise to the occasion.

Which is why I think he will still have a minimal role this season. I think Pop is still watching him and Simms to grasp what he has there and how to use them. It doesn't mean Kyle is not good enough, just that he's not a known quan y just yet. His time will eventually come.

do you think Butler will make his way back to the rotation come playoff time? the game is played/officiated differently that i still find Simmons/Kyle both too rookie-sh to survive the pressure cooker in their first rodeo....there will be less minutes available anyway with Kawhi/Manu likely seeing bump in theirs..i think Pop might get back to giving Butler his 5 minutes runs here and there...

[Uriel]

There is no doubt that Anderson has been an upgrade over Bellinelli defensively. But I don't think he's been the 4th best defensive SF in the league.

I could be wrong, but I'm almost certain his high defensive RPM has something to do with the fact that he plays for the best defensive team in the NBA.

[ceperez]

I don't disagree. I actually think the West being generally weaker this season will open up more opportunities for Kyle and Simms to show their stuff. It's just the Warriors don't wanna give us a break and I think as long as we're close to catching them we're still going to give our best shot out there.

The first step is to at least see these rookies and sop re players play against more difficult opponents. We haven't seen that. I really disliked the fact that against Houston, Pop chose to shorter the roster. If the Rockets can play Clint Capella extended minutes then the Spurs should be able to play Anderson, Simmons and Boban extended minutes.

[ElNono]

do you think Butler will make his way back to the rotation come playoff time? the game is played/officiated differently that i still find Simmons/Kyle both too rookie-sh to survive the pressure cooker in their first rodeo....there will be less minutes available anyway with Kawhi/Manu likely seeing bump in theirs..i think Pop might get back to giving Butler his 5 minutes runs here and there...

Wouldn't surprise me Pop going with Bonner over Butler for a minimal role in the playoffs. The kind of basketball we're playing right now isn't the kind we were playing two seasons ago. We have a younger Kawhi and LMA with bigger roles, I suspect the rotation will be shorter than previous seasons when the playoffs come around.

[Kawhitstorm]

do you think Butler will make his way back to the rotation come playoff time? the game is played/officiated differently that i still find Simmons/Kyle both too rookie-sh to survive the pressure cooker in their first rodeo..

Fathead is probably going to get the 2nd year CoJo treatment in the playoffs where he will play spot minutes behind Kawhi/Danny/Manu. (CoJo played behind Tony/Manu/Neal) . Butler is basically T-Mac status, tbh.

[ElNono]

The first step is to at least see these rookies and sop re players play against more difficult opponents. We haven't seen that. I really disliked the fact that against Houston, Pop chose to shorter the roster. If the Rockets can play Clint Capella extended minutes then the Spurs should be able to play Anderson, Simmons and Boban extended minutes.

The dynamic this season is just different. We have the starters with new personnel and roles needing to gel, and then the usual end of the bench guys showing what they have. The starters part is obviously much more important, because those are the guys that will have the biggest responsibility come playoff time, so it's imperative it works out. That's why Pop will likely prioritize that against solid teams over handing minutes to the new guys.

It's tough, but when you undergo such large role and personnel changes (it might not seem much for other NBA teams, but for the Spurs well known stability, it's pretty major), it's just something that has to happen.

Obviously if the team shows signs of gelling much better post ASG, then there will be more room for the new guys (or if an injury forces Pop's hand)

[Kawhitstorm]

Wouldn't surprise me Pop going with Bonner over Butler for a minimal role in the playoffs. The kind of basketball we're playing right now isn't the kind we were playing two seasons ago. We have a younger Kawhi and LMA with bigger roles, I suspect the rotation will be shorter than previous seasons when the playoffs come around.

Why in the would Butler/Bonner be playing meaningful minutes if LMA/Diaw/West are all available? I could see Bonner/Butler checking in for a final possession if they need a 3 but that's about it.

[look_at_g_shred]

Wow I'm shocked so many people are on the KA side tbh. It seemed like the majority of this board didn't like him. I like Marco, instant offense off the bench, but as someone already mentioned, his guy would always go off on the other end, so it was a wash. I've always been of fan of Kyle since the moment we drafted him. Having said that, I love the defense our team is putting forth, and you can credit that to the loss of Marco and more Kyle.

[steeledl]

Marco wasn't good at defense but here will come a time in the playoffs where we will miss his ability to shoot.

[Kawhitstorm]

There is no doubt that Anderson has been an upgrade over Bellinelli defensively. But I don't think he's been the 4th best defensive SF in the league.

I could be wrong, but I'm almost certain his high defensive RPM has something to do with the fact that he plays for the best defensive team in the NBA.

Of course he has teammates erasing his mistakes but his DRPM stands out even amongst his own teammates who play against backups.

[ElNono]

Why in the would Butler/Bonner be playing meaningful minutes if LMA/Diaw/West are all available? I could see Bonner/Butler checking in for a final possession if they need a 3 but that's about it.

Spacing in case LMA is hurt? LMA is obviously a better option if available.

I was answering to the notion of Pop going to Butler in a potential playoff series. I think he would rather go with Bonner (a known commodity for Pop), like he did in 2014.

[Kawhitstorm]

Marco wasn't good at defense but here will come a time in the playoffs where we will miss his ability to shoot.

The issue is that Marco is unplayable against certain teams (OKC in the 2014 series) but Kyle can play against all 29 teams, he's just not going to win you a game.

[spursistan]

Fathead is probably going to get the 2nd year CoJo treatment in the playoffs where he will play spot minutes behind Kawhi/Danny/Manu. (CoJo played behind Tony/Manu/Neal) . Butler is basically T-Mac status, tbh.

but he has shown to have wayyy more in the tank early in the season..just could'nt hit the 3..

[steeledl]

The issue is that Marco is unplayable against certain teams (OKC in the 2014 series) but Kyle can play against all 29 teams, he's just not going to win you a game.

I really doubt big head is part of the rotation at all come playoff time so that is really going to be irrelevant. I'm just saying Marco was a nice player to use situationally because he could shoot well, spread the court, and move the ball.

[Kawhitstorm]

Spacing in case LMA is hurt? LMA is obviously a better option if available.

I was answering to the notion of Pop going to Butler in a potential playoff series. I think he would rather go with Bonner (a known commodity for Pop), like he did in 2014.

It probably depends on how Boban pans out in the long run. Pop barely played Bonner this past postseason when Tiago was dragging his leg & Baynes was getting destroyed by Blake. IMO, Tim/LMA/Diaw/West are going to be the ones playing regularly w/ Boban being the 5th big & Bonner/Butler only playing situational minutes.

Since only 12 active player (+ 1 inactive) are allowed, either Bonner or Butler might be inactive if Simmons establishes himself as a rotation player.

Best case scenario:

Tony/Patty
Danny/Manu/Simmons
Kawhi/Kyle
LMA/West
Tim/Diaw/Boban

Inactive: ? (Bonner or Butler)
Not on the playoff roster: Ray/?(Bonner or Butler)

Most likely both Bonner/Butler(inactive) on the playoff roster & Ray/Simmons not on the playoff roster.

[SAGirl]

The point though is that Marco was more of a known quan y. You know what he does well and what he doesn't do well.

Anderson is limited too right now, but he's still developing, which is both good and bad. Good because he can get better, bad because it's hard to play him in high stakes games when you don't know if he's able to raise to the occasion.

Which is why I think he will still have a minimal role this season. I think Pop is still watching him and Simms to grasp what he has there and how to use them. It doesn't mean Kyle is not good enough, just that he's not a known quan y just yet. His time will eventually come.

You have a point, in the known quan y that Marco was, and the truth is that we could not afford him. I also cannot help but notice how PATFO tried to retain CoJo, but couldn't, and how they prioritized getting guys with defensive upside to replace Marco instead of a no defense/pure shooter like J.Eddie or someone else (Jimmer anyone?).

Pop stated transition D was our bane against the Clippers. Patty/Manu/Marco was probably a very bad transition trio. Kyle getting out of offensive sets to try to set up transition D has gotten him benched at least twice to my eye, and I watch him closely since I like him. Obviously in his mind getting back on transition D was No. 1 priority. He didn't need to take it to such an extreme and take offense so lightly as to leave offensive sets while they are still ongoing, to set up on D, but both Kyle and Simmons take difficult defensive assignments when they play and set up transition D for the bench. Its possible their taking this task has even allowed Manu to have those legs he's had to play as well as he has, since when he played next to Marco, Manu had to do more on both ends.

In a declining Manu world (or post Manu world) a no defense gunner is less and less valuable. If anything, give Manu a chance to spot up for a 3 himself, and let others do more. This is the way it seems Pop is going. You are not fully going to take the ball out of Manu's hands, but you will let Patty handle the rock much more, and you will get wings in there next to him who will set up transition D, take the toughest perimeter threat, and be able to set Manu up for a shot on occasion too. All of that allows Manu to pick and choose his spots.

Meanwhile, these wings have a defensive mindset developing this season while they are still developing offensively, and they have defensive fundamentals built up, so that when you ask them to do more offensively they already have good defensive habits built up.

[Kawhitstorm]

I really doubt big head is part of the rotation at all come playoff time so that is really going to be irrelevant. I'm just saying Marco was a nice player to use situationally because he could shoot well, spread the court, and move the ball.

If he wets the bed for the rest of the season then probably not but otherwise I don't see why he won't be getting limited minutes like CoJo if he keeps showing improvement when there isn't anyone to fill the Marco/CoJo void. (Simmons?)