The ultimate myth bust. The usage at the PG position doesn't change much when Patty

[DenialTwist]

This is laughable. You must not watch the games.

[YGWHI]

This is laughable. You must not watch the games.

I love this part "Parker has made multiple passes to Kawhi when he has a favorable matchup"

[TheDoctor]

Do you know how basketball works? Do I really have to post a 1000 set plays so that you might understand how players typically interact on the floor with each other?

I guess I have to use caps again.

PGS AND SFS RARELY PLAY TWO MAN GAMES WITH EACH OTHER. NO IN' SET, FROM HORNS TO THE TRIANGLE TO MOTION SETS TO IN' OCTOPUS SETS HAVE MORE THAN ONLY A FEW PLAYS AMONG THOUSANDS WHERE THE PG DRIBBLES UP AND THROWS THE BALL TO THE SF

Do you know what a PG's function is? Traditionally, it's to play through a big man. See, PG dribbles ball up. Makes entry pass to big man. Wing players move off ball, either to a spot up position or they cut. Big Man either looks for his shot or passes to an open wing. Do I have to post more in' set plays to show you how 90% of plays start with a PG/Big initiating the offense?

When a PG and SF initiate the offense, the SF usually gives up the ball rather quickly, like in the Spurs various motion backdoor sets:



To play some pnr two man game with Parker and Kawhi would be re ed.

LMAO at Kirby blocking Danny's at the end. Such a ing carismatic scrub.

[TheGreatYacht]

new age re ed non-Spur Kawhi fans

Vanilla scent posters

[K...]

ck to dividing the world into people who want Kawhi to spot up for three and the people who want him to iso every play. Good! Having to account for nuance or actually watch games tires me.


It sucks that this is now a kawhi thread. It was supposed to be kicking mills down. Mills is a nice player but he is 100% trade bait. He's aging out of his prime years. If he gets another contract it'll be a bonnor time role player thanks contract.

[DarrinS]

It would be nice if we had a bit more size and athleticism at the PG position. But, it is what it is.

[pgardn]

Parker isn't a ballhog by any metric known to man, you dumbass.

And I've shown him making those passes in my first screencap thread. Parker has made multiple passes to Kawhi when he has a favorable matchup. But it'll never be the norm like you want it to because coaches don't run many plays for 1-3 two man games. Deal with it.

Props for trying.

But you don't argue with an agenda.
I can see some folks becoming KL haters because of these fool posters.
This is exactly the game I would play as a poster who is not really a Spurs fan.
The crew are not fans of a team. Apo hoping for Parker to get injured...

[NameLess Scrub]

Thanks OP. I learned a little bit more about basketball.

new age re ed non-Spur Kawhi fans

Is your sig a travel? Step-jump(2 steps)-dunk

[Kawhitstorm]

If Kawhi isn't getting the ball enough in LMA/Parker lineups, then the issue is with Pop wanting to establish that two man game over increasing Kawhi's usage. And I don't see a problem considering the Spurs are 65-14. We probably won't beat the Warriors, but it will have nothing to do with Kawhi and his touches, and everything to do with them just being a more talented team.

Folks have to blind not to notice that Pop wants to run the offense through LMA early & often which involves Porky running PnRs. During crunch time, Pop hasn't been hesitant to bench Porky in favor of Patty then run the offense through Kawhi whether it be isolations or PnP w/ LMA while Patty spots up on the strong side.

[gambit1990]

When Porker is in the game, Kawhi is finishing plays when Patty is in the game Kawhi is making plays.

Parker can't run the PnR because he has the court vision of Stevie Wonder.

This is laughable. You must not watch the games.

to op: not everything is numbers. the ball should be in kawhi's hand more than parker's. he was 8/12 against golden state. he needs the ball/more shots.

i still prefer patty over parker. i've never once seen patty hold the ball as long as parker. never.

i prefer miller over parker too.

[EVAY]

I don't know what you want. Or what proof you want that they're compatible? Like I've tried to get through your thick in' skull, PGs and SFs don't play 2 man games, so how can there be any "compatibility" issues? If Kawhi isn't performing up to your dumbass standard alongside Tony, then it's something else that is affecting him in that lineup. There's more players on the floor than Tony.

Guess what? When we sub out Boris for Duncan, Kawhi's usage jumps 5 points. So are Duncan and Kawhi not compatible? When we sub out Green for Manu, Tony and Kawhi's usage remains about the same, but Manu eats 5 more usage points than Danny. Why aren't you calling out Manu for being "incompatible?" Oh, and the kicker. When we sub out LMA for West, Parker's usage remains the same, but Kawhi's jumps to 30! If Tony is actively ignoring Kawhi, then why didn't Kawhi's usage stay the same when LMA went out? Or why didn't Tony, the selfish player that he is, eat LMA's usage and take more shots for himself? So are Kawhi and LMA now incompatible?

Yeah, the reason for Kawhi's lower usage alongside Tony and LMA is because Tony TRIES TO GET LMA GOING PER THE GAMEPLAN. And even then, it's not like Kawhi's usage is dangerously low for a player of his caliber.

That said, if you have a problem, send a letter to Pop. He seems to want to establish LMA and Tony, and then bookend that with Kawhi getting going.

I applaud your attempts to insert reason and rationality to this issue. Unfortunately, I don't think you have a snowball's chance in of making a dent in the perception of KL fans who don't understand what they are watching.

It seems impossible to me that people do not understand that in most games, Tony gets LMA going early and that is by design - Pop's design. Why would Pop want to start games like that? Gee, I wonder...maybe because if it is successful and LMA gets the attention of lots of the defensive players on the other team, it could conceivably open up the game and court for other players (maybe someone like Kawhi, for instance?) to create their own shot in the open court later in the game as the defense sets itself against the 2 man pick and roll.

If people haven't noticed the pattern of LMA taking more shots early and KL taking more shots late in games as indicative of a game plan, there is little you can do to change that.

Goof on you for trying, though.

[dabom]

I applaud your attempts to insert reason and rationality to this issue. Unfortunately, I don't think you have a snowball's chance in of making a dent in the perception of KL fans who don't understand what they are watching.

It seems impossible to me that people do not understand that in most games, Tony gets LMA going early and that is by design - Pop's design. Why would Pop want to start games like that? Gee, I wonder...maybe because if it is successful and LMA gets the attention of lots of the defensive players on the other team, it could conceivably open up the game and court for other players (maybe someone like Kawhi, for instance?) to create their own shot in the open court later in the game as the defense sets itself against the 2 man pick and roll.

If people haven't noticed the pattern of LMA taking more shots early and KL taking more shots late in games as indicative of a game plan, there is little you can do to change that.

Goof on you for trying, though.

Someone tell Porker to stop freezing out Kawhi in the fourth then.

[DMC]

The issue here is that the Pakerstans think we are talking about 2007 Tony Parker, or talking about his peak years as if he was nothing. Tony is a future HOFer, like Tim. Neither should be the go to person on offense now however. I wouldn't want Kobe handling the ball either if he was on our team. It's not a slight against Parker, he just doesn't have court vision (never did) and these days lacks the athleticism and quickness to compensate for that lack of vision. He can't defer as easily as he could, so he's forced to find his shot as if the future of the Spurs hinges on him finding his shot. It doesn't.

[midnightpulp]

The issue here is that the Pakerstans think we are talking about 2007 Tony Parker, or talking about his peak years as if he was nothing. Tony is a future HOFer, like Tim. Neither should be the go to person on offense now however. I wouldn't want Kobe handling the ball either if he was on our team. It's not a slight against Parker, he just doesn't have court vision (never did) and these days lacks the athleticism and quickness to compensate for that lack of vision. He can't defer as easily as he could, so he's forced to find his shot as if the future of the Spurs hinges on him finding his shot. It doesn't.

I agree with that, and I'm not suggesting he be a go to guy. I'm just debunking the myth that Tony is taking away Kawhi's usage and giving it to himself. We see that when LMA exits for David West, Kawhi's usage climbs to Kobe-level, and that's with Parker still on the floor. When Mills checks in for Parker, his usage is roughly the same as Parker's, but LMA's is reduced. So the reason for Kawhi's lower usage in Tony and LMA lineups is because LMA is being used more not because Parker is going "Enrique" mode.

And my advocating of Tony being the 3rd guy has less to do with Tony and more to do with the fact that every role player on this team is an inconsistent mess offensively, especially the backcourt players. I would love for Manu to assume 3rd guy role, but I don't think he can. To beat the Warriors, we're going to need a 3rd option who can score a consistent 15 points per game and pop off for a 20 point plus game . Doing this by "committee" isn't going to work. Too many moving parts.

Maybe Boris can step into that role, since he seemed to excel last game against them. I don't know.

[DMC]

I agree with that, and I'm not suggesting he be a go to guy. I'm just debunking the myth that Tony is taking away Kawhi's usage and giving it to himself. We see that when LMA exits for David West, Kawhi's usage climbs to Kobe-level, and that's with Parker still on the floor. When Mills checks in for Parker, his usage is roughly the same as Parker's, but LMA's is reduced. So the reason for Kawhi's lower usage in Tony and LMA lineups is because LMA is being used more not because Parker is going "Enrique" mode.

There are plenty instances where Tony has the green light to pass or shoot and he chooses to look for his shot when the rest of the world thinks he should pass. He's notorious for freezing out a guy who's on a tear. He plays by Pop's every command, so he's rarely looking to create anything. When he does need to create, it's most often for Tony. When a play breaks down, the result is most often Tony shoots or passes just prior to the shot clock violation. This isn't new.

And my advocating of Tony being the 3rd guy has less to do with Tony and more to do with the fact that every role player on this team is an inconsistent mess offensively, especially the backcourt players. I would love for Manu to assume 3rd guy role, but I don't think he can. To beat the Warriors, we're going to need a 3rd option who can score a consistent 15 points per game and pop off for a 20 point plus game . Doing this by "committee" isn't going to work. Too many moving parts.

Maybe Boris can step into that role, since he seemed to excel last game against them. I don't know.

No one is going to step into that role because GS won't let them. Our problem with GS is that we expend too much energy covering Steph and Klay, and don't have any for the offensive end of the floor. More recently it's been that Pop keeps changing the road map and getting everyone lost again. Pop is about 50/50 to pull some "look at me" experiment in the playoffs that costs him the series against any team. I think Pop loves it when the media is buzzing about why Gregg Popovich pulled Tim, or why he's fouling intentionally up 12 in the 2nd quarter. Pop is a genius! You like to think he's gotten over himself but oddly I think he hasn't. The same ego that fuels the wins can fuel the losses, and anyone who says Pop doesn't have an ego doesn't understand compe ion.

Unlike almost every other team in the league, the Spurs aren't playing basketball - their coach is playing basketball and they are simply doing what he says. Pop has more moment to moment control of the game than any coach in the league, and at times that's good and at times that's bad.

[midnightpulp]

There are plenty instances where Tony has the green light to pass or shoot and he chooses to look for his shot when the rest of the world thinks he should pass. He's notorious for freezing out a guy who's on a tear. He plays by Pop's every command, so he's rarely looking to create anything. When he does need to create, it's most often for Tony. When a play breaks down, the result is most often Tony shoots or passes just prior to the shot clock violation. This isn't new.

Every player has selfish instances, but Tony has ran the Spurs offense over the years properly. And no star Spur has frustrated me over the years more than him, but that has more to do with his lack of clutchness (Tony's M.O. though-out the years has to been to destroy a playoff opponent in the first couple of games, the opponent makes an adjustment, and Tony gets neutralized) than with any selfishness.

No one is going to step into that role because GS won't let them. Our problem with GS is that we expend too much energy covering Steph and Klay, and don't have any for the offensive end of the floor. More recently it's been that Pop keeps changing the road map and getting everyone lost again. Pop is about 50/50 to pull some "look at me" experiment in the playoffs that costs him the series against any team. I think Pop loves it when the media is buzzing about why Gregg Popovich pulled Tim, or why he's fouling intentionally up 12 in the 2nd quarter. Pop is a genius! You like to think he's gotten over himself but oddly I think he hasn't. The same ego that fuels the wins can fuel the losses, and anyone who says Pop doesn't have an ego doesn't understand compe ion.

It seems the role players can't even step into that role against scrub teams these days. I'm highly worried about that. No one seems able to score on this team, consistently, aside from LMA and Kawhi. What happens when they're having an off night? Where's our Lamar Odom, Chris Bosh, Draymond Green, Jason Terry? The only time I recall a "committee" gameplan working in NBA history was 2014 and to extent the 2004 Pistons le team. I'm not saying you're supporting a committee, just highlighting its flawed nature if one the usual idiots reads this reply.

[DMC]

Every player has selfish instances, but Tony has ran the Spurs offense over the years properly. And no star Spur has frustrated me over the years more than him, but that has more to do with his lack of clutchness (Tony's M.O. though-out the years has to been to destroy a playoff opponent in the first couple of games, the opponent makes an adjustment, and Tony gets neutralized) than with any selfishness.




It seems the role players can't even step into that role against scrub teams these days. I'm highly worried about that. No one seems able to score on this team, consistently, aside from LMA and Kawhi. What happens when they're having an off night? Where's our Lamar Odom, Chris Bosh, Draymond Green, Jason Terry? The only time I recall a "committee" gameplan working in NBA history was 2014 and to extent the 2004 Pistons le team. I'm not saying you're supporting a committee, just highlighting its flawed nature if one the usual idiots reads this reply.

You need to come back down to Earth, at least until you discover otherwise, and realize Patty Mills, Danny Green and Boris Diaw were all waived by their other teams. Other than Boris, they've played universes above their expected levels up until recently. Even then, we don't even have the big 3 anymore. We have Manu who, in my opinion, is still the "still has it" guy of the three. Tony and Tim are so much less now than they were back then that it's almost impossible to imagine them being the catalysts for any deep pushes into the playoffs. Tim is amazing, wouldn't shock me for him to have a return to his glory days in a series, but the team is now Aldridge and Kawhi, and the latter seems to get jitters in big games early on. For a superstar with his resume, that's unnerving for a fan.

So just don't expect too much from them. If you get it, you'll be elated. If you don't, just appreciate they didn't go out like that got in LA.

[midnightpulp]

You need to come back down to Earth, at least until you discover otherwise, and realize Patty Mills, Danny Green and Boris Diaw were all waived by their other teams. Other than Boris, they've played universes above their expected levels up until recently. Even then, we don't even have the big 3 anymore. We have Manu who, in my opinion, is still the "still has it" guy of the three. Tony and Tim are so much less now than they were back then that it's almost impossible to imagine them being the catalysts for any deep pushes into the playoffs. Tim is amazing, wouldn't shock me for him to have a return to his glory days in a series, but the team is now Aldridge and Kawhi, and the latter seems to get jitters in big games early on. For a superstar with his resume, that's unnerving for a fan.

So just don't expect too much from them. If you get it, you'll be elated. If you don't, just appreciate they didn't go out like that got in LA.

Oh, I've been back down to Earth for awhile. I've been calling Danny "D-League," Patty "Patty House," and Boris "Fatass" for the past 2 months. I love those guys, but my nicknames are basically an acknowledgement of their limitations. It's also why I think the 3rd scorer committee is pants on head stupid. The 3rd guy is going to have to be a former big gun, like Tony, Tim, or Manu.

I don't expect it, just hope for it.

[UNT Eagles 2016]

To play some pnr two man game with Parker and Kawhi would be re ed.

0:45 - 1:06

[midnightpulp]

0:45 - 1:06

D-League

[south side spur]

When did Kobe or Bron Bron ever need a point guard to get them involved? Kawhi has to be more aggressive it's that simple. So what he was 8-12 there are always players who you can look at a box score after the fact and ask why weren't they more involved because their team lost. If you're an alpha you're an alpha you don't deflect. If Kawhi isn't "getting his" that's on him. Parker and Leonard are both playing within the system. If you blame anyone for not getting Kawhi involved then you have to blame Kawhi as well for deferring. Parker has to create more for Kawhi? No supposed great ever needed that.

[YGWHI]

When did Kobe or Bron Bron ever need a point guard to get them involved? Kawhi has to be more aggressive it's that simple. So what he was 8-12 there are always players who you can look at a box score after the fact and ask why weren't they more involved because their team lost. If you're an alpha you're an alpha you don't deflect. If Kawhi isn't "getting his" that's on him. Parker and Leonard are both playing within the system. If you blame anyone for not getting Kawhi involved then you have to blame Kawhi as well for deferring. Parker has to create more for Kawhi? No supposed great ever needed that.

Tell me when Lebron has to ask for the ball to Irving or Dellavedova?

We saw in many games that Kawhi asked for the ball to Parker in the 2nd half and Parker called a play for his own shot...

Remember the game against Thunder in SA? Pop called Parker out for not giving the ball to Kawhi.

[YGWHI]

But you don't argue with an agenda.
I can see some folks becoming KL haters because of these fool posters.

No. It's not a casualty that all those Kawhi's haters are Parker stans, too.

They can't handle these things...

to op: not everything is numbers. the ball should be in kawhi's hand more than parker's. he was 8/12 against golden state. he needs the ball/more shots.

There are plenty instances where Tony has the green light to pass or shoot and he chooses to look for his shot when the rest of the world thinks he should pass. He's notorious for freezing out a guy who's on a tear. He plays by Pop's every command, so he's rarely looking to create anything. When he does need to create, it's most often for Tony. When a play breaks down, the result is most often Tony shoots or passes just prior to the shot clock violation. This isn't new

[south side spur]

You're making my point. Those players don't need their coach to call a time out for them. It's known...they take the ball. He's just not at that level confidence wise. Kobe needs a time out called to get him the ball? Kawhi has had the ball countless times only to keep it moving and play within the system. You want him to play outside the system and look for his, right? That's on him. He's just got Pop in his head and knows he has to make the right play. For what you want to happen the thought has to be "I'm carrying my team they need me to score."

[YGWHI]

You're making my point. Those players don't need their coach to call a time out for them. It's known...they take the ball.

How Kawhi can take the ball when the ball is in Parker hands most game? He should hit him?