Mic e Obama gets her way on nutrition labels

[Will Hunting]

whole-grain scam? They're better than refined as long as you don't use that as an excuse to unnecessarily carbo-load yourself everyday.

Which is something that a lot of people do.

Everyone has the one fatass friend/coworker who's ordering an 1100 calorie footlong sub at subway but thinks he's dieting because he's "choosing the healthy bread!"

[DMX7]

Which is something that a lot of people do.

Everyone has the one fatass friend/coworker who's ordering an 1100 calorie footlong sub at subway but thinks he's dieting because he's "choosing the healthy bread!"

It kind of makes what Jared did losing all that weight eating so much bread that much more impressive... before the whole "thing" happened.

[rmt]

You're describing two different scenarios here. It is good to expose immature immune systems to all sorts of potential allergens but if a child has displayed allergies to specific substances, I'd like to talk to the doctor who would tell you to continue to expose that child to said allergen. Your misunderstanding of this subject further proves my point that people shouldn't listen to your advice.

That was not the consensus of the majority of allergists 14 years ago. Their advice was avoidance - cut all the allergens out of the diet. I was nursing at the time and there was no formula that he could tolerate so guess what - I eliminated all his allergens from my diet. For 20 months, I cut out dairy, nuts, eggs, soy, seeds, gluten, even rice from my diet. It is now too late to expose him to those allergens. Because he has avoided them for so long, any exposure is magnified. So much for following the advice of so called experts (medical docs). I would have been better served following my father.

So your claim is if your child has a severe peanut allergy, the cure will be overexposure?
Oh are these your "opinions":

Did you not above say that "it is good to expose immature systems to all sorts of potential allergens?" Currently, they are experimenting with exposing kids to incremental increasing amounts of peanuts but back then, their advice was avoidance. They've had some success with the current experiments but I was told just 6 months ago by the allergist that even that fails - when the kids get sick, they have to start all over again.

What? Are you trying to say old age leads to high blood pressure, high cholesterol, and diabetes? Is this your professional opinion?
Another su ious "opinion".

LOL another "opinion" that is just completely wrong.

We've already talked about how incorrect your statements, err sorry "opinions", about saturated fats are (though I didn't focus on the insane alzheimer's claim). But maybe you have some evidence for your "opinion" that TGs and other labwork will improve by cutting out carbohydrates, yet increasing fat intake.

Again, your "opinion" here is just not accurate. Which makes it less an opinion and more a falsehood.

You like to say "we'll agree to disagree" but yet again there's nothing to agree about. Many of your assertions aren't based in science or reality.

I know a lot of old people, and I'd be hard pressed to find one who doesn't have either high blood pressure, high cholesterol or diabetes. As we age, our bodies do not function as efficiently/well as when we are younger. Most old people have some kind of health problem that they didn't have when they were younger.

I have just given you an example where allergists were wrong about their avoidance advice. Others have mentioned the egg yolks, the butter/margarine.

[rmt]

It's only anecdotal but my personal lab work got a lot better after I cut out most of the starches I ate and increased my consumption of eggs and meats.

My lab work backs this up too.

[rmt]

You're describing two different scenarios here. It is good to expose immature immune systems to all sorts of potential allergens but if a child has displayed allergies to specific substances, I'd like to talk to the doctor who would tell you to continue to expose that child to said allergen. Your misunderstanding of this subject further proves my point that people shouldn't listen to your advice.

I wonder if I should trust your understanding or mine on the subject of allergies when I have (literally) eaten and lived with this for the past 14 years and been to many allergists. Who do you think ate that diet for 20 months while nursing and has home cooked this special diet for the past 14 years? Who has been inconvenienced because we can't go on a plane for fear of peanut dust from snacks in the cabin? Who do you think sits in the ER every time he has a severe allergic reaction? Who has to watch him breaking out from touching a door knob that some one who's eaten dairy, touched their mouth and touched the doorknob? Who do you think has to stay home with him every Easter Sunday because he can't go to church as there are eggs all over the place? Who can't step out of the house without carrying his meals because he cannot eat at any restaurant? Who watches him in the pediatrician's office having an anaphylactic reaction from the DTap vaccine? Who do you think is deathly afraid of sending him to public school with all that milk and peanut butter around? Please don't lecture me on allergies till you have lived them. Again, the advice of allergists until recently has been AVOIDANCE - the total opposite of what it is now.

[Will Hunting]

It kind of makes what Jared did losing all that weight eating so much bread that much more impressive... before the whole "thing" happened.

It was a starvation diet with Jared, nothing more. He had nothing for breakfast, a 6 inch sub for lunch and a 6 inch sub for dinner, with no snacking in between. The discipline and self control there was impressive, but there wasn't anything special about that diet.

Still, even though he lost tons of weight, he was still a pudgy guy after the diet. I didn't look at Jared and think "wow that guys in great shape".

[Shastafarian]

That was not the consensus of the majority of allergists 14 years ago. Their advice was avoidance - cut all the allergens out of the diet. I was nursing at the time and there was no formula that he could tolerate so guess what - I eliminated all his allergens from my diet. For 20 months, I cut out dairy, nuts, eggs, soy, seeds, gluten, even rice from my diet. It is now too late to expose him to those allergens. Because he has avoided them for so long, any exposure is magnified. So much for following the advice of so called experts (medical docs). I would have been better served following my father.


Did you not above say that "it is good to expose immature systems to all sorts of potential allergens?" Currently, they are experimenting with exposing kids to incremental increasing amounts of peanuts but back then, their advice was avoidance. They've had some success with the current experiments but I was told just 6 months ago by the allergist that even that fails - when the kids get sick, they have to start all over again.

One thing I'll admit to is that medical progress is real and we're discovering things all the time, especially related to immunology. What that tends to mean is that previous recommendations need to be updated. And exposure treatments for allergies are only for certain allergens and definitely not for severe allergies that could lead to anaphylaxis.

I know a lot of old people, and I'd be hard pressed to find one who doesn't have either high blood pressure, high cholesterol or diabetes. As we age, our bodies do not function as efficiently/well as when we are younger. Most old people have some kind of health problem that they didn't have when they were younger.

I have just given you an example where allergists were wrong about their avoidance advice. Others have mentioned the egg yolks, the butter/margarine.

Being old isn't a disease. There needs to be a reason they develop those conditions. It's not just, hey Bob is old now so he's gonna get diabetes. No. Genes and diet likely gave you and your father diabetes. But this all comes back to my only real point here; don't trust people on internet forums with medical/health decisions.

I wonder if I should trust your understanding or mine on the subject of allergies when I have (literally) eaten and lived with this for the past 14 years and been to many allergists. Who do you think ate that diet for 20 months while nursing and has home cooked this special diet for the past 14 years? Who has been inconvenienced because we can't go on a plane for fear of peanut dust from snacks in the cabin? Who do you think sits in the ER every time he has a severe allergic reaction? Who has to watch him breaking out from touching a door knob that some one who's eaten dairy, touched their mouth and touched the doorknob? Who do you think has to stay home with him every Easter Sunday because he can't go to church as there are eggs all over the place? Who can't step out of the house without carrying his meals because he cannot eat at any restaurant? Who watches him in the pediatrician's office having an anaphylactic reaction from the DTap vaccine? Who do you think is deathly afraid of sending him to public school with all that milk and peanut butter around? Please don't lecture me on allergies till you have lived them. Again, the advice of allergists until recently has been AVOIDANCE - the total opposite of what it is now.

How do you know I haven't lived it? And did you refute any of what I said?

[Big Dog]

It was a starvation diet with Jared, nothing more. He had nothing for breakfast, a 6 inch sub for lunch and a 6 inch sub for dinner, with no snacking in between. The discipline and self control there was impressive, but there wasn't anything special about that diet.

Still, even though he lost tons of weight, he was still a pudgy guy after the diet. I didn't look at Jared and think "wow that guys in great shape".

My DOK

[Shastafarian]

It's only anecdotal but my personal lab work got a lot better after I cut out most of the starches I ate and increased my consumption of eggs and meats.

Did you focus on a variety of meats or was it predominantly red meat? I'm not advocating for high starch diets. I advocate for balanced diets that don't rely of faux-science or fads. Whole grains as a large portion of the diet is not terrible. Gluten will not kill you. Carbs aren't the enemy.

[rmt]

One thing I'll admit to is that medical progress is real and we're discovering things all the time, especially related to immunology. What that tends to mean is that previous recommendations need to be updated. And exposure treatments for allergies are only for certain allergens and definitely not for severe allergies that could lead to anaphylaxis.


Being old isn't a disease. There needs to be a reason they develop those conditions. It's not just, hey Bob is old now so he's gonna get diabetes. No. Genes and diet likely gave you and your father diabetes. But this all comes back to my only real point here; don't trust people on internet forums with medical/health decisions.

How do you know I haven't lived it? And did you refute any of what I said?

I just explained to you that the body breaks down as we age - that the body does not process or heal as well as it did before resulting in higher blood pressure, higher cholesterol or less blood sugar control.

I am assuming that if you have lived it and went to many allergists, you would know that the previous treatment (14 years ago) was avoidance - not exposure as it is today.

[Shastafarian]

I just explained to you that the body breaks down as we age - that the body does not process or heal as well as it did before resulting in higher blood pressure, higher cholesterol or less blood sugar control.

You explained nothing. What are the actual processes that lead to hypertension or elevated cholesterol or diabetes? Those things don't just happen because someone gets older. To assume a severe condition like diabetes presents simply because the body is "old" would be asinine.

I am assuming that if you have lived it and went to many allergists, you would know that the previous treatment (14 years ago) was avoidance - not exposure as it is today.

I never refuted your claim. In fact I said science and medicine can make mistakes or be incomplete. That's what progress is. Adjusting recommendations and books to reflect advances. But again, you have done nothing to refute any of my points.

[rmt]

This is my last post on this subject - I feel like an old person arguing with a young person. I don't have any of the scientific data/expert opinion that you put so much store in but most of my friends/contemporaries (late 40s/early 50s) are experiencing pre-diabetes, higher blood pressure and higher cholesterol. They're being put on Lipitor, Metformin and blood pressure medication if they won't change their diets and exercise. What we are experiencing now - our parents didn't develop until their 60s.

I have been through the low-fat, high "whole grain" carb food pyramid recommendation and found that it is terrible with regard to my family's labs. I've done a lot of experimentation with my family's diet and seen the effect on our lab numbers. And yes it's anecdotal, but our numbers are better when we eat eggs with their yolks, meat with the skin and fat on it, full fat cheese and butter, limit our carbs and increase our healthy fats. Because of my son's severe allergies, I am willing to try almost anything to improve his health and am open to opinions/alternatives that might or might not go against most mainstream "experts." This is a message board with a whole range of different opinions. We are free to share, consider or dismiss anything anyone posts.