No. I said comparing the brilliance of individual players using team accomplishments is faulty. I never said team accomplishments can't be applied to individuals.All 6 points above have been hashed and rehashed. I explained why or showed rebuttals to all and have no desire to go over them yet again. I'm honored you would take the time to create such a list to be honest.
And thank you for admitting that MJ is clearly ahead of TD in le defenses. Oh by the way, doesn't that contradict your very fist comment to me asking how team accomplishments are considered individual ones?
Regardless, thank you for coming full circle and admitting my original comment was accurate regardless of your questioning it to begin with.
Derek fisher is better than Duncan in defending les. Horry is better than Jordan in winning les. What's the problem with that?
And no, you didn't address the points, they just suddenly disappeared.
You don't get extra hardware for making the playoffs, but you still win something: a playoff spot. It's quantifiably better than not making the playoffs.
However a repeat is not better in this regard than winning two les every other year over a 4 year span.
You're innately ignorant.
No one did repeats until Red did them, prompted by your beloved East Coast Media.
"Lakers ain't a real champ until they can defend it."
And you bought it, hook, line and sinker.
That's all well & good, but, you're innately ignorant.
Do you get an extra trophy for repeats?
Nope.
Until you do, I don't do repeats. You can do them and continue to honor Red, though.
You don't get trophies for regular season wins or playoff appearances either.
You don't get trophies for shooting percentage, defensive rankings, or team impact either and YOU SURE DO THOSE! A lot!
What else are you going to use for head-to-head player comparison?
Are you really going to put Mantle over Mays because Mantle had more rings? Or are you gonna compare stats?
No argument here. I never said they were not valid. You don't put repeating high on your qualifier list. In fact, I imagine it's not even on your list since you don't do em. It's OK. Many do find it important. That's ok too. Just pointing out that your "trophies" qualifier doesn't hold much water.
It's all good and I completely understand why a majority of Spurs fans place no value on repeating. Funny though how many of you who say repeating has no value sure had a lot to say about the value of stopping the lakers 4 peat. Hmmmm...
Last edited by cobbler; 07-16-2016 at 11:38 PM.
I don't do them, because eventually, they're irrelevant. We just remember the Yankees 27 World Series Wins. Or the Steelers 6 Superbowl Wins. The Celtics 17 les. And we forget about when and in what order they were won.
"Repeats" were a Red Auerbach invention, used to diminish the Lakers les since they never repeated (aside from the Minny Lakers) until '88-'89.
Understood. And they might be irrelevant to you but to many they have value. Defending your le is extremely difficult to do regardless who brought up the topic. That's why only 6 franchises have accomplished the feat. We laker fans heard it when the bulls 3-peated and surpassed the magic lakers 2 peat. Seriously, its quite ok that you don't find any merit in them. Totally understandable.
It's not close actually. The numbers are not close. Neither are the advanced stats which you have to use unstead of raw numbers.. How can I argue with Kobe > Duncan. That's it. Move on? I mean, your idiocy got called out, don't call me sensitive for pointing out your horrible points (none in this case) and say you've won.
Btw, have I thanked you for letting me know Duncan ~ Hakeem in their respective peaks? I always thought Hakeem > Duncan but you insisted I look at the numbers and it's pretty clear they are so close, with Duncan even holding a slight edge in the playoffs.
Thanks.
Good Lord, Mid really said repeating is not better than winning two les in 4 years. Smh.
no, he said the difference isn't as important, as say missing the playoffs in your prime suggesting you are not an all time dominant player.
Its still a re ed statement.. One could say losing to the 8th seed as the 1 seed is more embarrassing than missing the playoffs.
One of the dumbest posts I've ever read on here.
Kobe never got past Round 1 as the first option either. Even Vince has won more playoff series as the alpha than Kobe.
Kobe was apart of a 3 peat. The question actually becomes how many rings does Tim get if Shaq wasn't lazy. Which fortunately for Tim, Shaq didn't work hard.
Yet Kobe actually has good shooting percentages in the playoffs despite the finals. So he did play a big part of those threepeat teams.
Kobe was "part" of a threepeat, sure - in the same way that Fisher was "part" of a threepeat. Shaq is the one who gets (and deserves) credit for the threepeat, because he was the leader and the only irreplaceable player on those teams.
The real question is how many rings does Tim get if Kobe was a good teammate and accepted being a minor role player. Fortunately for Tim, Kobe was a cancer who ran the Shaqorry Lakers into the ground and then ran Shaq out of town.
Kobe actually had more win shares in the 2000 -2001 playoffs. 3.8 to Shaq's 3.7. So he did play a Big part. Possibly bigger that year.
Kareem has the longevity and is one of my favorites ever, but I think I would take a prime Shaq.
The East was the worst it's ever been back then. Kobe's brickfests against whichever fodder came out of the East are a huge stain on his career.
Even in the West, there wasn't much compe ion. The 2002 Kings were arguably the best team they faced during the threepeat years, and Kobe took more shots than prime Shaq with a far worse FG%. Shaq, Harper and Rice were all more efficient than Kobe against the Blazers in 2000 as well. Other than that, where was the compe ion? The Spurs were forced to use TOSBs like Terry Porter and Steve Smith to "guard" Kobe. The Suns, pre-2002 Kings, and post-2000 Blazers were just overmatched.
Oh now we're arguing that Shaq had a better peak then Tim? Damn maybe that should have been the first argument.
"If Shaq weren't lazy he'd be better than Tim" and if Kobe played defense, played efficient, didn't act prickly he'd be a top 5' And if Vince Carter has forced his way onto a contender, if mcgrady stayed healthy, if Durant had confidence, if Duncan had a reliable frontcourt partner after d Rob. Hypothetical scenarios are fun! ! !
I was at Tim's first and Last game in San Antonio. It's been a great run. Thanks Tim, for all the memory's.
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