Spurs sign David Lee per Woj

[sasaint]

OmG truth Bomb!!!
one can only hope. Tony should have sat against Clippers that's is so right!!! This is where I get on Pop for not playing his younger guys. Look at Cojo!!! Got to the ECF and he was huge for Raptors moving on from their Choketor ways!!! OmG he was so underutilized in Spurs his last season here. POP instead moving on with Mills and Marco too who with all their shooting were also giving up layups to Austin Rivers.

Some still say if Tony doesn't get injured in game 6 against OKC in 2014 and Cojo subs for him the s second half we don't make a come back and ultimately win that game. POP even gave props to Tony for his terrible first half that he did play bc he was injured. He shouldn't have played in that state. And I am not a Tony hater. But it's true, the ironic troll thread is true, if Tony is not aggressive looking to score, what does he do? Ugh. If I was a strict Kiwi fan it would make me crazy which is why those guys are angry at Pop too (Apalisoc at least, more ignorant guys just hate on Tony).

You hit the nail on the head. I am optimistic about the season but I was honest and said I would be less so if Pop is not developing the younger guys after making such a fuss about the team needing to get younger and address deficiencies in the bench. Adding Tony on to that just complicates it more. Ppl will say we won't ring again without TD, but we have to pay more attention to Pop right now and his schemes.

I agree for the most part, but I believe the issue with Tony is primarily his defense. That's where he kills us.

Many posters fail to acknowledge that Tony has a fine mid-range game and has become a good (not great) 3-point shooter. In that vein he would be would be fine for 20-25 minutes a game - especially on the second unit.

Unfortunately, we do not have a slasher to replace him just yet. Without that slasher, we have nobody to collapse the opponents' defense for open, kick-out 3s. Mills, Dijon and Simmons all have their own issues and question marks at this point. Patty (who I pray bounces back more than TP!) is just not cut out to be a PG. Simmons has similar problems with his unreliable handles, although he has better slashing ability. And Dijon is the big question mark. Can he shore up his handles quickly enough to augment/press/supplant Tony in any meaningful way before season's end? Further, what kind of court vision does he really have? If Dijon fast-tracks we can be deadly. Unfortunately I am rooting for him to be fast-tracked on a team coached by Pop and headed by a PG who is one of Pop's pets. Hence, pessimism.

[Brazil]

FkLA

I hope he is fine tbh... Losing Boris for lee... Tough offseason

[Russo21]

Gasol/Dedmon
LMA/Lee/Anderson
kawhi/Bertans/Jean-Charles
Green/Manu/Simmons
Parker/Murray/Mills

Forbes/Arcidiacono/Boner I have no idea what will happen with those 3.

Is that what they are rolling with? Did I miss anyone?

Frontline looks great with Gasol, LMA, Dedmon, Lee
Small forward is set with Kawhi and the newbies Bertans and Jean-Charles
Shooting Guard is set with Green, Manu, Simmons
Point Guard is set with Parker, Murray and Mills.

Odd man out is Anderson though he'll probably just be a backup pf, backup sf, backup pg when the other reserves aren't dong their jobs. And Patty Mills will have to keep an eye on Murray stealing his spot. By the deadline if Murray is balling the front office may look to trade Mills for a position of weakness if possible.

Did I miss anyone? Is that the roster? What do you see as the deficiencies of this team?

[Obstructed_View]

I hope he is fine tbh... Losing Boris for lee... Tough offseason

Lee might not be as good as Boris 2.0, but he's a of a lot better than fat uninterested Boris.

[ElNono]

I hope he is fine tbh... Losing Boris for lee... Tough offseason

That and Bernie getting shafted, tough summer for him, tbh... hopefully getting his citizenship makes it all better...

[GSH]

Lee has a decent mid range shot for sure. He is capable of it. He's more of a roller, but he can hit definitely knock down the mid range shot. I watched him often being here in NY, he can knock it down.

http://vorped.com/1-nba/2015-2016/pl...lee/shotchart/

Smaller sample size, but considering he'll get decent looks in our offense, he should capitalize

For Lee's entire career, his average shot distance is 6.5 feet. And that's only because of his time in Golden State. For the rest of his career (non-GSW), his average shot distance is under 5 feet. And it's worth noting that when he went to GS, and started shooting more mid-range shots, his FG% from outside 5 feet went to . (Not that it was ever very good.) His first year with GSW, he shot .342 from 3-10 feet, and .366 the next year. That's worse than Andre ing Drummond. That will lose you a roster spot - and lose the team a lot of games.

Have another look at that shot chart you posted. Notice how many green dots are clustered around the basket? There are so many, you don't notice that he hardly ever shot from mid-range. Click on "Shot Zones", and notice how really, really few shots came from outside about 5-6 feet. Yeah, David Lee "can" make some mid-range jumpers - just like every other player in the league "can" make some mid-range jumpers. But night in and night out, he's made a piss-poor percentage from anywhere outside about 5-6 feet, and that's true for his entire career. To be more specific - for his ENTIRE CAREER, he has shot under .400 from 3-10 feet, once again about the same as Andre ing Drummond who everyone knows can only shoot from around the basket. And even that is misleading, because the range (3-10 feet) doesn't tell the whole story. Most of his makes in that range are from 3-6 feet, and most of his misses are from 6-10 feet.

Just for comparison, David West's average shot distance (career) is 10.0 feet, and his FG% from 3-10 feet is .450. Not only that, but West has shot about 30% of his shots (career) from outside 16 feet, and averaged .474. Lee has shot about 15% of his shots from outside 16 feet, and averaged .416. What the stats don't show is that West's mid-range was a major part of his teams' offense, and he got contested a LOT. Most of Lee's mid-range makes come when the defense forgets about him, and he's largely uncontested.

Lots of people remember the made shots, and not the misses. David Lee is an absolutely ty shooter from outside about 5-6 feet, and if he's shooting mid-range shots, the team is ed. And because of that, he clogs the middle most of the time. But, hey, he's a Spur now, so rah rah. It will be a different story around her by mid-season, if he gets any minutes to speak of.

[BackHome]

Who know maybe Pop having all these young kids in the team will get him excited to coach and develop them.

[ceperez]

For Lee's entire career, his average shot distance is 6.5 feet. And that's only because of his time in Golden State. For the rest of his career (non-GSW), his average shot distance is under 5 feet. And it's worth noting that when he went to GS, and started shooting more mid-range shots, his FG% from outside 5 feet went to . (Not that it was ever very good.) His first year with GSW, he shot .342 from 3-10 feet, and .366 the next year. That's worse than Andre ing Drummond. That will lose you a roster spot - and lose the team a lot of games.

Have another look at that shot chart you posted. Notice how many green dots are clustered around the basket? There are so many, you don't notice that he hardly ever shot from mid-range. Click on "Shot Zones", and notice how really, really few shots came from outside about 5-6 feet. Yeah, David Lee "can" make some mid-range jumpers - just like every other player in the league "can" make some mid-range jumpers. But night in and night out, he's made a piss-poor percentage from anywhere outside about 5-6 feet, and that's true for his entire career. To be more specific - for his ENTIRE CAREER, he has shot under .400 from 3-10 feet, once again about the same as Andre ing Drummond who everyone knows can only shoot from around the basket. And even that is misleading, because the range (3-10 feet) doesn't tell the whole story. Most of his makes in that range are from 3-6 feet, and most of his misses are from 6-10 feet.

Just for comparison, David West's average shot distance (career) is 10.0 feet, and his FG% from 3-10 feet is .450. Not only that, but West has shot about 30% of his shots (career) from outside 16 feet, and averaged .474. Lee has shot about 15% of his shots from outside 16 feet, and averaged .416. What the stats don't show is that West's mid-range was a major part of his teams' offense, and he got contested a LOT. Most of Lee's mid-range makes come when the defense forgets about him, and he's largely uncontested.

Lots of people remember the made shots, and not the misses. David Lee is an absolutely ty shooter from outside about 5-6 feet, and if he's shooting mid-range shots, the team is ed. And because of that, he clogs the middle most of the time. But, hey, he's a Spur now, so rah rah. It will be a different story around her by mid-season, if he gets any minutes to speak of.

Thanks for the reality check!

[tholdren]

For Lee's entire career, his average shot distance is 6.5 feet. And that's only because of his time in Golden State. For the rest of his career (non-GSW), his average shot distance is under 5 feet. And it's worth noting that when he went to GS, and started shooting more mid-range shots, his FG% from outside 5 feet went to . (Not that it was ever very good.) His first year with GSW, he shot .342 from 3-10 feet, and .366 the next year. That's worse than Andre ing Drummond. That will lose you a roster spot - and lose the team a lot of games.

Have another look at that shot chart you posted. Notice how many green dots are clustered around the basket? There are so many, you don't notice that he hardly ever shot from mid-range. Click on "Shot Zones", and notice how really, really few shots came from outside about 5-6 feet. Yeah, David Lee "can" make some mid-range jumpers - just like every other player in the league "can" make some mid-range jumpers. But night in and night out, he's made a piss-poor percentage from anywhere outside about 5-6 feet, and that's true for his entire career. To be more specific - for his ENTIRE CAREER, he has shot under .400 from 3-10 feet, once again about the same as Andre ing Drummond who everyone knows can only shoot from around the basket. And even that is misleading, because the range (3-10 feet) doesn't tell the whole story. Most of his makes in that range are from 3-6 feet, and most of his misses are from 6-10 feet.

Just for comparison, David West's average shot distance (career) is 10.0 feet, and his FG% from 3-10 feet is .450. Not only that, but West has shot about 30% of his shots (career) from outside 16 feet, and averaged .474. Lee has shot about 15% of his shots from outside 16 feet, and averaged .416. What the stats don't show is that West's mid-range was a major part of his teams' offense, and he got contested a LOT. Most of Lee's mid-range makes come when the defense forgets about him, and he's largely uncontested.

Lots of people remember the made shots, and not the misses. David Lee is an absolutely ty shooter from outside about 5-6 feet, and if he's shooting mid-range shots, the team is ed. And because of that, he clogs the middle most of the time. But, hey, he's a Spur now, so rah rah. It will be a different story around her by mid-season, if he gets any minutes to speak of.

The things you bring up are exactly what the spurs don't need. I big man jump shooter. Spurs need someone who isn't afraid to get contact down low and put back missed shots. David West was notorious for being a pussy the last few years. Dont want the enforcer to be shooting an elbow jumper when he should be bullying down low. Clogging the middle talk is irrelevant because it doesn't happen.

[TD 21]

Perfectly fine with this signing as long as Pop doesn't overplay him (which is admittedly a concern). I agree with the idea of Lee being more of the 3rd center as opposed to the 2nd PF...and in that role, I don't think you could ask for much better for the price + lack of people left on the market.

Kawhi/Simmons/Bertans
Aldridge/Anderson/Bertans
Pau/Dedmon/Lee

Looks solid to me

How is that solid? Anderson, Simmons and Bertans, haven't solidified themselves as NBA players, let alone rotation ones. Dedmon has solidified himself as the former, but not the latter.

If any other team had those players slated to play the roles they are, the consensus would be that they lack depth, but because the vast majority have been consumed with the Spurs getting younger for years, the consensus is they're fine.

All this talk about "Pop overplaying the veterans" is nonsense. Look at the young player total minutes in recent seasons and consider that they were mostly non rotation players, on teams deeper in proven veterans than this one.

Yeah, but people were talking Paul and Westbrook next summer. I think it's more likely now that the biggest contract is Mills or Dedmon getting a raise.

I'm sure they'll attempt to pursue Paul and Westbrook, but they're obviously both long shots. Then it becomes a question of, is someone like Holiday, who's had significant injuries in recent years and is good but not great, enough of an upgrade to justify what they'd have to pay him?

This is likely dependent on whether Parker is back in '15 form and Murray looks a ways away from being a rotation player (his path is through Ginobili retiring, which is probably happening in a year) or they get the impression that he's not going to become a starter down the line.

[Sean Cagney]

The things you bring up are exactly what the spurs don't need. I big man jump shooter. Spurs need someone who isn't afraid to get contact down low and put back missed shots. David West was notorious for being a pussy the last few years. Dont want the enforcer to be shooting an elbow jumper when he should be bullying down low. Clogging the middle talk is irrelevant because it doesn't happen.

Truth..

[SpursFan86]

How is that solid? Anderson, Simmons and Bertans, haven't solidified themselves as NBA players, let alone rotation ones. Dedmon has solidified himself as the former, but not the latter.

If any other team had those players slated to play the roles they are, the consensus would be that they lack depth, but because the vast majority have been consumed with the Spurs getting younger for years, the consensus is they're fine.

Well first off, having Kawhi/Aldridge/Pau as the starting frontcourt is fantastic. It would take a very, very ty bench for the frontcourt not to be considered solid. I certainly agree there are some question marks about the bench guys, but I'd be very surprised if they turn out to be that much of a disaster.

I think KA has proven himself as an NBA player, and given his age and likely improvement, I expect him to prove himself as a legitimate rotation player this year. I'm also pretty high on Dedmon and am not too worried about him getting ~15 mpg and being a capable backup C.

Backup wings is the most legitimate concern, but 1) KA can play backup 3 if necessary, 2) Green fill in at the 3 when Kawhi goes out, and 3) Kawhi is at the age where it should be no problem for him to play 35+ mpg...especially come playoff time. So I don't think having a proven backup SF is a huge concern. Would I prefer us to have someone more proven? Obviously. But given the strength at the 4/5 positions + how great Kawhi is as the starting 3, I still think our frontcourt is in great shape.

I'm far, far more worried about our backcourt situation rather than our frontcourt situation.

[dabom]

Fathead is anything but proven in the playoffs. WTF ya smoking.

[dabom]

Last year the bench sucked ass with the addition of fathead and Dwest. Let that sink in.

[SpursFan86]

KA has proven himself as an NBA-caliber player. Whether you think he's capable of being a rotation player for a contender is up for debate and I understand if someone thinks he isn't, but acting like he hasn't solidified himself as at least an NBA-caliber player is ridiculous (and that is what TD21 was talking about) IMO.

I mean, look at the 10th-15th guys for most NBA teams. You're seriously saying KA hasn't proven himself to be as good as those sort of players? I think that's pretty absurd.

[dabom]

And I'm talking about the playoffs for the people that don't get that.

[dabom]

And I'm talking about the playoffs for the people that don't get that.

KA has proven himself as an NBA-caliber player. Whether you think he's capable of being a rotation player for a contender is up for debate and I understand if someone thinks he isn't, but acting like he hasn't solidified himself as at least an NBA-caliber player is ridiculous (and that is what TD21 was talking about) IMO.

I mean, look at the 10th-15th guys for most NBA teams. You're seriously saying KA hasn't proven himself to be as good as those sort of players? I think that's pretty absurd.

Knew someone was gonna miss the point.

[SpursFan86]

Knew someone was gonna miss the point.

Are you re ed? I was responding to TD 21. He said that Anderson hasn't solidified himself as an NBA player. I was disagreeing with that. Then you come in with a stupid remark talking about how KA hasn't proven himself to be a guy you can trust in the playoffs, when nothing in my post ever said that I believed he's already proven himself as a capable playoff rotation guy.

[dabom]

Are you re ed? I was responding to TD 21. He said that Anderson hasn't solidified himself as an NBA player. I was disagreeing with that. Then you come in with a stupid remark talking about how KA hasn't proven himself to be a guy you can trust in the playoffs, when nothing in my post ever said that I believed he's already proven himself as a capable playoff rotation guy.

Which is why I thought your reply was weird. You're right here. I admit a mistake.

[SpursFan86]

Which is why I thought your reply was weird. You're right here. I admit a mistake.

Fair enough. I agree he hasn't done anything so far to prove he's capable of playing important playoff minutes. Last year he really just proved he could do well against the average NBA bench. Hopefully he'll change that this upcoming season, because we'll definitely need him to be a rotation guy in the playoffs this year.

[dabom]

Fair enough. I agree he hasn't done anything so far to prove he's capable of playing important playoff minutes. Last year he really just proved he could do well against the average NBA bench. Hopefully he'll change that this upcoming season, because we'll definitely need him to be a rotation guy in the playoffs this year.

Which is funny because only way to prove you are good enough for the playoffs is by playing in them. Please no.

[cd021]

Gasol/Dedmon
LMA/Lee/Anderson
kawhi/Bertans/Jean-Charles
Green/Manu/Simmons
Parker/Murray/Mills

Forbes/Arcidiacono/Boner I have no idea what will happen with those 3.

Is that what they are rolling with? Did I miss anyone?

Frontline looks great with Gasol, LMA, Dedmon, Lee
Small forward is set with Kawhi and the newbies Bertans and Jean-Charles
Shooting Guard is set with Green, Manu, Simmons
Point Guard is set with Parker, Murray and Mills.

Odd man out is Anderson though he'll probably just be a backup pf, backup sf, backup pg when the other reserves aren't dong their jobs. And Patty Mills will have to keep an eye on Murray stealing his spot. By the deadline if Murray is balling the front office may look to trade Mills for a position of weakness if possible.

Did I miss anyone? Is that the roster? What do you see as the deficiencies of this team?

Anderson is definitely the backup 3 and will probably combo forward in the PS if the spurs play the Warriors.

Signing Lee probably means that both Bertans and Simmons aren't going to have a impact this season, they will still get opportunities but Anderson playing at the 3 means that Simmons won't have steady minutes at SF and will be a 3rd stringer.

See no reason why Murray is ahead of Mills. Mills is clearly still ahead of Murray, Parker and Mills essentially split the PG minutes 27.5/20.5 last season and with Parker coming off the Olympics It is more than likely that split look something like 27/21. Murray doesn't look anywhere near ready to step in and play 21 mpg. He might be asked to do so after next season when the Spurs may have to let Mills walk but not now.


Parker/Mills/Murray
Green/Manu/Simmons
KL/Anderson/Bertans
LMA/Lee/LJC
Gasol/Dedmon

[TD 21]

Well first off, having Kawhi/Aldridge/Pau as the starting frontcourt is fantastic. It would take a very, very ty bench for the frontcourt not to be considered solid. I certainly agree there are some question marks about the bench guys, but I'd be very surprised if they turn out to be that much of a disaster.

I think KA has proven himself as an NBA player, and given his age and likely improvement, I expect him to prove himself as a legitimate rotation player this year. I'm also pretty high on Dedmon and am not too worried about him getting ~15 mpg and being a capable backup C.

Backup wings is the most legitimate concern, but 1) KA can play backup 3 if necessary, 2) Green fill in at the 3 when Kawhi goes out, and 3) Kawhi is at the age where it should be no problem for him to play 35+ mpg...especially come playoff time. So I don't think having a proven backup SF is a huge concern. Would I prefer us to have someone more proven? Obviously. But given the strength at the 4/5 positions + how great Kawhi is as the starting 3, I still think our frontcourt is in great shape.

I'm far, far more worried about our backcourt situation rather than our frontcourt situation.

What you said and I responded to, had nothing to do with the starters or the front court compared to the back court. They might well be the best starting front court in the league, or maybe this is the season Gasol falls off a cliff. People act like he's 32 or something, when in reality he's 36, with mileage that makes him closer to 40.

Debatable as to whether Anderson (he can only play small forward next to a stretch power forward; a Anderson-Lee-Dedmon front court isn't tenable in '16) has proven himself an NBA player, but he damn sure hasn't proven himself a rotation player. I'm not saying he won't and I'm relatively high on Dedmon too, but this is about at this writing; not predictions.

KA has proven himself as an NBA-caliber player. Whether you think he's capable of being a rotation player for a contender is up for debate and I understand if someone thinks he isn't, but acting like he hasn't solidified himself as at least an NBA-caliber player is ridiculous (and that is what TD21 was talking about) IMO.

I mean, look at the 10th-15th guys for most NBA teams. You're seriously saying KA hasn't proven himself to be as good as those sort of players? I think that's pretty absurd.

That's just it: Many third unit players are in fact fringe players, especially with teams trending more towards "developmental" players for those spots.

[BillMc]

Who know maybe Pop having all these young kids in the team will get him excited to coach and develop them.

Your words to Pop's ears.

[SAGirl]

Well first off, having Kawhi/Aldridge/Pau as the starting frontcourt is fantastic. It would take a very, very ty bench for the frontcourt not to be considered solid. I certainly agree there are some question marks about the bench guys, but I'd be very surprised if they turn out to be that much of a disaster.

I think KA has proven himself as an NBA player, and given his age and likely improvement, I expect him to prove himself as a legitimate rotation player this year. I'm also pretty high on Dedmon and am not too worried about him getting ~15 mpg and being a capable backup C.

Backup wings is the most legitimate concern, but 1) KA can play backup 3 if necessary, 2) Green fill in at the 3 when Kawhi goes out, and 3) Kawhi is at the age where it should be no problem for him to play 35+ mpg...especially come playoff time. So I don't think having a proven backup SF is a huge concern. Would I prefer us to have someone more proven? Obviously. But given the strength at the 4/5 positions + how great Kawhi is as the starting 3, I still think our frontcourt is in great shape.

I'm far, far more worried about our backcourt situation rather than our frontcourt situation.

I agree.
Kyle has indeed proven to be an NBA player. He already played a lot of minutes for Pop outside of garbage time and earned the coaches trust in real games. He's still a very young player and so versatile that it's realistic to expect him to have an NBA career at this point.