Kyle Anderson isn't good enough...

[Chinook]

Nah, Kyle can score against NBA players just fine. He was the Spurs' best player in summer league, so the guys guarding him had legit NBA talent (Warren, RHJ etc.). Even last night, he had no problems getting to his spot. Morris, despite his girth, just couldn't guard Anderson in the post. But Kyle needs to have that, " the play, I'm taking this one" at ude that Pop's spent years cultivating in Kawhi. If Anderson had a lot of turnovers or missed shots, that woudl be one thing. But him being passive his internal, not external.

[SAGirl]

Disagree with this.

They can play with Dedmon/Lee, but Lee and Dedmon have to be where they need to be. Last night, Dedmon was playing in spot where he has zero value majority of the time -- on the block with his hand in the air calling for the ball. When he's just standing on the block, not setting any screens on the perimeter, of course he will clog the painted area. But even if he was a shooter, the team doesn't have perimeter players that can get past their man off the dribble to create without a screen.

Dedmon needs to focus on setting screens on and off ball away from the basket and implementing the diving action after every screen. The opposing big, Lee, in this case, needs to be in the dunker spot awaiting sprinting back out to the perimeter to set another screen if the first screen set by Dedmon is contested well by the defense. There needs to be constant fluidity in this regard when you have two PnR divers. If they both can do this right, it will actually increase spacing on the weakside and in general.

Having shooting big men won't necessarily do any good because nobody on the bench is good enough ( with exception to Murray) to take their man off the dribble to create. There has to be a screen involved. If the screen is followed by a popping action then the long 2 or three point attempt by a big is the shot the team is likely getting most often in the long run ( not sustainable against great teams). If the screen is followed by a roll or dive to the basket then the open shots will come from better shooters, three point shooters on the weakside, like Mills, Green, Bertans ect. Those are the shots the Spurs need to take more often instead of long 2's or three point attempts taken by a big.

Spurs can play Lee and Dedmon together but they need to be used right in order to optimize spacing and opportunity for our perimeter players. Last night they were not.

Thanks for the explanation Manutres, much appreciated.
I always try to pay attention to what Pop has guys doing, just as much as I look at them individually but my basketball knowledge is not that wide that I can foresee other ways they could have handled their spacing problems I saw.

All this blame is on Kyle for lack of screening and cutting, but I didn't see that from anyone else, which is why I pointed it out to ElNono, who was the first one to bring that up. In fact I saw Kyle screen for an opposing wing to be open for a 3, and I also saw him cut on occasion, but he was followed into the paint bc the post player didn't command that much attention I guess. Him screening is usually for someone else's benefit. No one was screening for him much though.

Maybe the issue is there is not a leader in that bench. I am not sure. The entire thing is not on him. I think he had one instance he passed up a good shot from 3, there were other times he was closed out hard. Let's say he could have taken the shots over the hard close out, but he's not comfortable with that, and I am sure Pop has gotten on guys whose shooting percentages dip about their shot selection in general. It's not a shot he's comfortable with. He could have called a screen though. Often there was no time. I suppose it's something in general he individually has to look at and correct, but as far as I saw the system wasn't effective. If more screening from Dedmon helps, then he's the one Pop needs to get on with. Instead of calling for the ball on the block for shots for himself, he needs to come around out of there and think of making a teammate better and if he rolls hard, I am sure he will get the ball, bc Kyle at least is a very unselfish player. I didn't see any of that.

Again I thank you for insightful contributions.

[MaNu4Tres]

Thanks for the explanation Manutres, much appreciated.
I always try to pay attention to what Pop has guys doing, just as much as I look at them individually but my basketball knowledge is not that wide that I can foresee other ways they could have handled their spacing problems I saw.

All this blame is on Kyle for lack of screening and cutting, but I didn't see that from anyone else, which is why I pointed it out to ElNono, who was the first one to bring that up. In fact I saw Kyle screen for an opposing wing to be open for a 3, and I also saw him cut on occasion, but he was followed into the paint bc the post player didn't command that much attention I guess. Him screening is usually for someone else's benefit. No one was screening for him much though.

Maybe the issue is there is not a leader in that bench. I am not sure. The entire thing is not on him. I think he had one instance he passed up a good shot from 3, there were other times he was closed out hard. Let's say he could have taken the shots over the hard close out, but he's not comfortable with that, and I am sure Pop has gotten on guys whose shooting percentages dip about their shot selection in general. It's not a shot he's comfortable with. He could have called a screen though. Often there was no time. I suppose it's something in general he individually has to look at and correct, but as far as I saw the system wasn't effective. If more screening from Dedmon helps, then he's the one Pop needs to get on with. Instead of calling for the ball on the block for shots for himself, he needs to come around out of there and think of making a teammate better and if he rolls hard, I am sure he will get the ball, bc Kyle at least is a very unselfish player. I didn't see any of that.

Again I thank you for insightful contributions.

It's still very early. Hopefully Dedmon and Lee learn this and develop the type of chemistry and fluidity that's needed to optimize the space for the perimeter players.

[sasaint]

I think the only person who might have a yellow light is Murray.

HaHa! If only we could blend the aggression/passivity of Murray/Kyle for both players!

[Chinook]

I have to respect others views, specially bc I haven't followed the Spurs as long, but from what I have seen him do elsewhere, and what he's doing here, it's a different mentality he has entirely, which goes with Pop.

Maybe I do give Pop too much credit for everything, but it's how I have observed it. Only once in a whole season last year I saw Pop pull Kyle out bc of an offensive play. He moved out of position in a sort of hammer play, he wanted to get back on defense while the play was still going on and Patty threw a no look pass while Kyle had moved away from the corner. It was a huge mistake, lack of awareness and attention, which told me two things: his mind was on defense and he didn't care one to score (that was very, very early in the season) and he really caused the team to miss a possession, which earned him a benching for the entire game deservedly. That is the only time I have seen him getting benched for an offensive possession. If his mind wasn't on offense and he only cared to improve defensively, ok. I think that is what they got through his head. Eventually I think they pushed offensively to some degree. He scored more in the latter part of the season than he did the first couple of months for example.

Right now, I am not sure where his head is. In SL he had the mentality to attack. Here I am not sure, which makes me question what his focus is for the season. Maybe green lighting is the incorrect description, but he's not free IMO to take whatever he wants. Maybe he should. Maybe he needs to call a screen... maybe he needs to do more, but since he's not doing it, and I have seen him do it in other situations, I don't think that is his role TBH.

And if it is his role, then that is still on Pop to get on his arse about it behind closed doors I imagine and on team leaders to push him gently to get on with it already.

It's just possible that Kyle feels limited playing with guys who are or used to be higher up in the pecking order. Asserting yourself with more established guys isn't easy, but it's something that he had to be active in. Pop can't force this change. He would be even more awkward than what he's doing with Simmons. As far as other players, they can't afford to defer to a passive Anderson either. If he can't beat them, he can't lead them, or some other Spartan BS like that.

[spursistan]

Kyle certainly has a powerful a lobby on ST in a couple of prolific posters, but honestly it is becoming hard to keep driving the bandwagon when the player himself suffers from a severe lack of motor that was always going to limit his potential-- and that hasn't seemingly changed his outlook in couple of off-seasons with first team..

People rave about his supposed high BB IQ, instincts etc but those elements aren't going to be honed with his glaring deficiency in athleticism(mainly a first step quickness/explosiveness) not to mention his inability to work/embrace a shooting niche, thus far..The guy is simply a natural slowpoke who doesn't have the nimbleness of someone like Diaw to unlock his untapped versatility...

I have said in another thread that if the Spurs are to meet a realistic ceiling of WCF appearance, they are going to need--among other things-- Anderson cementing his place in the team future with an on-court performance similar to Danny Green 2011-2012 campaign..Not surprisingly, that was out first trip to the Western Conference Finals in 4 years..

Pop apparently loves him, so i would normally expect a guy like Simmons to be dangled and shipped before he he gets considered for a move, but it would remiss to not sniff around for deals if he doesn't show any sustained improvement by the trade deadline with how many other holes the team has to address..

[sasaint]

Thanks for the explanation Manutres, much appreciated.
I always try to pay attention to what Pop has guys doing, just as much as I look at them individually but my basketball knowledge is not that wide that I can foresee other ways they could have handled their spacing problems I saw.

All this blame is on Kyle for lack of screening and cutting, but I didn't see that from anyone else, which is why I pointed it out to ElNono, who was the first one to bring that up. In fact I saw Kyle screen for an opposing wing to be open for a 3, and I also saw him cut on occasion, but he was followed into the paint bc the post player didn't command that much attention I guess. Him screening is usually for someone else's benefit. No one was screening for him much though.

Maybe the issue is there is not a leader in that bench. I am not sure. The entire thing is not on him. I think he had one instance he passed up a good shot from 3, there were other times he was closed out hard. Let's say he could have taken the shots over the hard close out, but he's not comfortable with that, and I am sure Pop has gotten on guys whose shooting percentages dip about their shot selection in general. It's not a shot he's comfortable with. He could have called a screen though. Often there was no time. I suppose it's something in general he individually has to look at and correct, but as far as I saw the system wasn't effective. If more screening from Dedmon helps, then he's the one Pop needs to get on with. Instead of calling for the ball on the block for shots for himself, he needs to come around out of there and think of making a teammate better and if he rolls hard, I am sure he will get the ball, bc Kyle at least is a very unselfish player. I didn't see any of that.

Again I thank you for insightful contributions.

Isn't this possibly our (yours and mine) biggest disappointment? I know that we both thought (even at his tender age) that Kyle's leadership ability would really begin to express itself in the absence of Tim. I really thought he would begin to become a team leader in the vacuum left behind.

[MaNu4Tres]

Nah, Kyle can score against NBA players just fine. He was the Spurs' best player in summer league, so the guys guarding him had legit NBA talent (Warren, RHJ etc.). Even last night, he had no problems getting to his spot. Morris, despite his girth, just couldn't guard Anderson in the post. But Kyle needs to have that, " the play, I'm taking this one" at ude that Pop's spent years cultivating in Kawhi. If Anderson had a lot of turnovers or missed shots, that woudl be one thing. But him being passive his internal, not external.

Just because he "can" score against NBA players doesn't mean its an efficient or +EV proposition for the team. Sure he can, so can Lee in the post, so can Murray out on the perimeter. The doesn't mean the team should utilize it more.

Anderson can score in ISO situations, but those are inefficient opportunities that the team shouldn't prioritize.

[sasaint]

Nah, Kyle can score against NBA players just fine. He was the Spurs' best player in summer league, so the guys guarding him had legit NBA talent (Warren, RHJ etc.). Even last night, he had no problems getting to his spot. Morris, despite his girth, just couldn't guard Anderson in the post. But Kyle needs to have that, " the play, I'm taking this one" at ude that Pop's spent years cultivating in Kawhi. If Anderson had a lot of turnovers or missed shots, that woudl be one thing. But him being passive his internal, not external.

Gotta agree with you. If Kyle is to come even close to maximizing the talent that some of us have seen in him, Pop will have to light a bonfire under him - and probably keep it lit.

[Chinook]

Just because he "can" score against NBA players doesn't mean its an efficient or +EV proposition for the team. Sure he can, so can Lee in the post, so can Murray out on the perimeter. The doesn't mean the team should utilize it more.

Anderson can score in ISO situations, but those are inefficient opportunities that the team shouldn't prioritize.

Iso's are low priority /because/ they're inefficient usually. It's the same thing with post-ups and long-twos. If you're elite at that element, you can and should do it. Because it's not like Kyle had tunnel vision. He'll pass and pass well out of a double.

If Kyle can score as well as he usually does isoing against NBA players, you definitely want him to do that. There's not just one way to play basketball. Having a guy who's 6-9 and can score on anyone one-on-one is like the best weapon against GS that Pop could ask for considering who else is on the roster.

[sasaint]

It's just possible that Kyle feels limited playing with guys who are or used to be higher up in the pecking order. Asserting yourself with more established guys isn't easy, but it's something that he had to be active in. Pop can't force this change. He would be even more awkward than what he's doing with Simmons. As far as other players, they can't afford to defer to a passive Anderson either. If he can't beat them, he can't lead them, or some other Spartan BS like that.

If it is a matter of conscious deference, Pop can do something about it.

[MaNu4Tres]

Iso's are low priority /because/ they're inefficient usually. It's the same thing with post-ups and long-twos. If you're elite at that element, you can and should do it. Because it's not like Kyle had tunnel vision. He'll pass and pass well out of a double.

If Kyle can score as well as he usually does isoing against NBA players, you definitely want him to do that. There's not just one way to play basketball. Having a guy who's 6-9 and can score on anyone one-on-one is like the best weapon against GS that Pop could ask for considering who else is on the roster.

Are you implying that Kyle is elite in the NBA at ISOs?

He's not good enough to put him in ISO's, especially vs. GS. It's really that simple. No team in their right mind would double Kyle Anderson. His ceiling is a role player playing off primary action. He's not a go to player. Not in the NBA. He's not good enough to create good shots for himself, or teammates consistently and he's for damn sure not good enough to warrant double teams.

Sorry, but I disagree with your post entirely. And I'm not one to pick and choose my battles nor do I have an agenda to knock a player. I do, however, feel very strongly about my opinion of Kyle and his skill-set.

[SAGirl]

Nah, Kyle can score against NBA players just fine. He was the Spurs' best player in summer league, so the guys guarding him had legit NBA talent (Warren, RHJ etc.). Even last night, he had no problems getting to his spot. Morris, despite his girth, just couldn't guard Anderson in the post. But Kyle needs to have that, " the play, I'm taking this one" at ude that Pop's spent years cultivating in Kawhi. If Anderson had a lot of turnovers or missed shots, that woudl be one thing. But him being passive his internal, not external.

This point I do get. I think mentally he has to take more command for sure.

[Texas_Ranger]

no need to read cause i agree with the le

[dabom]

Iso's are low priority /because/ they're inefficient usually. It's the same thing with post-ups and long-twos. If you're elite at that element, you can and should do it. Because it's not like Kyle had tunnel vision. He'll pass and pass well out of a double.

If Kyle can score as well as he usually does isoing against NBA players, you definitely want him to do that. There's not just one way to play basketball. Having a guy who's 6-9 and can score on anyone one-on-one is like the best weapon against GS that Pop could ask for considering who else is on the roster.

Did you just say fathead can go ISO s golden state?

[bklynspursfan]

It's still very early, but with KA it's different than evaluating guys like Dedmon/Lee and other new guys. He's had more time here, and looks very similar to the player we saw last year. Which isn't necessarily a bad player, but not doing enough I guess for what we need.

It could just be a mental thing with him, but obviously whatever it is doesn't matter. He's gotta be more decisive and try and do more out there, especially if he wants to earn more minutes. The lack of shooting/pump faking is what worries me most. From what I was reading/hearing, it was something he wasn't doing in the SL. Bobo drove us crazy not taking open 3's, but maybe we looked passed it because he could do so much on the court and his impact was felt.

I'd give him a couple months, because it'll be an adjustment for him as well playing with new guys. But as a guy who's been on the bench and had time to study the system, he has to produce more. Lee has seemed to have his finger prints on some of these games more, and some of it is just being active and hard working. He seems comfortable out there, and KA needs to get to that point

[dabom]

Or in anyway suggesting fathead can be that guy.

[dabom]

I take it back Chinook. Don't post no more takes.

Your reputation is non existent anymore. :lpl

[BillMc]

Deadman should be moved quickly; Ayres would actually be an improvement.

Simmons, at age 27, still commits the same errors, trying to force himself where his skill level cannot take him.

Kyle has lacked a defined role, and that has contributed to his passivity. Out of your three "hopefuls" he is the only one in whom I have any real hope left.

Because they are more seasoned than most rookies, you might throw Lapro and Garino onto your list, too - not immediately, but perhaps before the season is over.

Good points.

By the way, you asked earlier where I'm moving. I moved from Riga to Kiev last May, and now headed to Kharkov next week. My second time living in Kharkov, was there from 2007 to 2014.

[SAGirl]

Isn't this possibly our (yours and mine) biggest disappointment? I know that we both thought (even at his tender age) that Kyle's leadership ability would really begin to express itself in the absence of Tim. I really thought he would begin to become a team leader in the vacuum left behind.

If he's going to be that, it has to be clear. It's not clear to me that he is. Maybe they want him to be, but he's not right now. Placing things in context:

Pop really sat Tony to give the ball to Kawhi, if we were paying attention. I think it's hard playing next to a vet to not defer, which is why those comments about Manu wanting to feel important and taking 35% of the posessions or something like 14 shots in 16 minutes were shocking to me. Anyways I made a huge deal of it, but since I didn't watch the game, maybe I got things out of proportion.

But if you are a humble 23 year old, how can you assert yourself playing next to that? No way, you sit back and watch the HoF vet player do work.

Even LMA had a bit of a stargaze playing next to Tim... ppl forget that... Kawhi had to be pushed each season, hard. Manu gave that statement in that article I posted just today that initially Pop had to call plays for Kawhi (thus why I think the offense looked so forced initially and mechanica when featuring Kawhi for the first time 2 seasons ago) and Tony had to set up a play for him. Only now his 5th? season he's calling his own number truly without anyone telling him to, or giving him the ball and we are talking about an MVP candidate even last season, and super talented player. It's a lot, to show in preseason coming off last season. What I am hoping is to see growth and development in that direction. It's complicated by others in the rotation (Dedmon mostly) being new himself, relatively inexperienced too (probably has nearly around the same minutes of NBA games as Kyle for example), then a change in the system.

I guess one game does not show for me all that can be, but there has to be improvement for sure.

[BillMc]

Maybe like this?

[dabom]

Pop called Kawhi the future of the franchise after 1 year. Pushing a young star is way ing different than a ing "didn't play the playoffs his first year" role player. Kawhi is naturally gifted and super talented. I can't say that about fathead.

[MaNu4Tres]

And now we have people comparing Kawhis' situation and growth to Kyle's. My head hurts.

It's only Tuesday people.

[Chinook]

Are you implying that Kyle is elite in the NBA at ISOs?

Yes. He was elite last year. You might not believe he is, but the numbers bear that out.

http://stats.nba.com/league/player/#...PerMode=Totals

In the 97th percentile is elite by my book.

[spursistan]

And now we have people comparing Kawhis' situation and growth to Kyle's. My head hurts.

It's only Tuesday people.

Before SAGirl showed up in this place, i think i've read/heard the "next Diaw" or something here and elswhere..That Kyle has an "overrated" narrative to him, it is indisputable...He's really going to need to make some kind of leap this year or trade talk would be fair game..