Lowe Post w/ Windhorst, Arnovitz: Spurs may target George Hill and/or JJ Re

[palangi]

Unless Murray becomes like five times the player he currently is, the Spurs sure as aren't going to win with him starting. And yes, the Spurs are probably willing to "sacrifice Kawhi's prime" because they really don't have another choice. They shouldn't start Murray (barring something crazy happening with his development), and they can't afford to upgrade without gutting a chunk of their roster.

It's now official, Murray is as good as parker if not better. If Chinook stands on a table about a talent evaluation then you know it's the opposite of what he said. His evaluations are probably the worse on this site.

Stick to the finances Chinook. It's what you know.

[dabom]

It's now official, Murray is as good as parker if not better. If Chinook stands on a table about a tashkent evaluation then you know it's the opposite of what he said. His evaluations are probably the worse on this site.

Stick to the finances Chinook. It's what you know.

Murray is an unknown. He isn't gonna start over porker, and certainly won't get minutes over MVPatty. We might as well throw in the towel if he gets any significant minutes these playoffs. FACTS.

[mo7888]

You don't get the context if you don't understand why "sacrifice Kawhi's prime" was in quotes. You even re-quoted it with the quotes in place. I said that because that's what the previous post said. You need to learn to ing read before acting haughty. There's no deflection here. I always meant it as a reply to a different poster using their own words against them. That you didn't understand that is no one else's fault but yours.

I need to read? you ...

[SAGirl]

Spurs should not be adding any dead money. Even though SA won't have a lot of cap space next year after that they are in incredible shape with having Kawhi, LMA & Danny locked up.

They have guys to consider reupping and will have holes. It's inescapable that they will have to pay somebody(ies)

[SAGirl]

The SAG?

Lol It's indeed my impression you just don't like Dijon.
Which is fine unless you were going to troll which you don't normally.
I wasn't a JSimms fan but he's improved. I think you are at that spot.

[dabom]

Lol It's indeed my impression you just don't like Dijon.
Which is fine unless you were going to troll which you don't normally.
I wasn't a JSimms fan but he's improved.

You have used that "shtick" for everyone who has disagreed with you.

[Chinook]

I need to read? you ...

Did you tell your teachers that in school too? Might explain some .

[Chinook]

Lol It's indeed my impression you just don't like Dijon.
Which is fine unless you were going to troll which you don't normally.
I wasn't a JSimms fan but he's improved. I think you are at that spot.

I don't dislike Murray. I fully expect him to get playing time in the regular rotation next season. But I am not going to want the Spurs to get rid of guys to give him time until he earns it. Right now, he keeps getting pulled in garbage time.

The team has an obligation to be as good as they can for as long as they can. They aren't going to get intentionally worse until/unless they're forced to. A team that should win in the high-50s to low-60s next season shouldn't be looking at benching their PG for a prospect and dumping their second-best player for a low-first and high-second. It's crazy that so many Spurs fan think they should.

[mo7888]

Did you tell your teachers that in school too? Might explain some .

I make a notation of your quotes and you conveniently omit them...but I need to read? Lol... nice troll...

[SAGirl]

I don't dislike Murray. I fully expect him to get playing time in the regular rotation next season. But I am not going to want the Spurs to get rid of guys to give him time until he earns it. Right now, he keeps getting pulled in garbage time.

The team has an obligation to be as good as they can for as long as they can. They aren't going to get intentionally worse until/unless they're forced to. A team that should win in the high-50s to low-60s next season shouldn't be looking at benching their PG for a prospect and dumping their second-best player for a low-first and high-second. It's crazy that so many Spurs fan think they should.

I expect Murray to continue to get pulled even as he's playing more minutes bc he needs the tough coaching. In fact he's just not playing enough to interpret much. Maybe I am misguided and he does bomb big time but I wouldn't be able to deduct that from a few minutes here and there. He does look like he's got a lot to learn and will get chances to earn it.

I am far from a Tony hater and it's really sad that one cannot discuss some guys without some faction or another coming in with a trolling intention (not saying that's you... we just have to look at the usual)

The team actually does look really good when Tony plays well. If he can't do what he's supposed to though, they will struggle. Spurs need to start moving on from him and already have been steering in that direction with him playing less minutes, etc. The team has won games with Murray starting against playoff teams. He's not asked to do a lot when he's with the starters bc the offense already runs through others. I definitely think Dijon can be better than Tony really soon. Maybe like sasaint I am just higher on him than you are and think less of Tony than you do but I am with Gambit in that Tony's contributions are small and can be replicated by Dijon.

Once we we step into things of this nature there's a lot of personal evaluation and subjective opinion so I don't think you are wrong to disagree or that I am right. We have different opinions.

[dabom]

I expect Murray to continue to get pulled even as he's playing more minutes bc he needs the tough coaching. In fact he's just not playing enough to interpret much. Maybe I am misguided and he does bomb big time but I wouldn't be able to deduct that from a few minutes here and there. He does look like he's got a lot to learn and will get chances to earn it.

I am far from a Tony hater and it's really sad that one cannot discuss some guys without some faction or another coming in with a trolling intention (not saying that's you... we just have to look at the usual)

The team actually does look really good when Tony plays well. If he can't do what he's supposed to though, they will struggle. Spurs need to start moving on from him and already have been steering in that direction with him playing less minutes, etc. The team has won games with Murray starting against playoff teams. He's not asked to do a lot when he's with the starters bc the offense already runs through others. I definitely think Dijon can be better than Tony really soon. Maybe like sasaint I am just higher on him than you are and think less of Tony than you do but I am with Gambit in that Tony's contributions are small and can be replicated by Dijon.

Once we we step into things of this nature there's a lot of personal evaluation and subjective opinion so I don't think you are wrong to disagree or that I am right. We have different opinions.

Lets just get this out the way. For everyone to understand. Stats should be seperated between Playoff teams and Non-Playoff teams. Kinda how Dworst was good vs regular teams but sucked ASS vs the top teams. Also the RS and Playoffs are a completely different beast. Also the further up you go, the teams are harder. So there is a lot of scenarios for players trying to make a case for themselves. The rookie hasn't proven on any stage of his career. I don't expect him to do that this year either.

Please learn.

[Chinook]

I make a notation of your quotes and you conveniently omit them...but I need to read? Lol... nice troll...

Huh? I didn't omit anything. Your "notation" came in an edit posted after I had either posted or started typing the response. It's not quoted because it wasn't there to quote originally. That happens from time to time if someone replies quickly and is at best an honestly mistake. I'm really not trying to throw shade at you or jump down your throat. I apologize if I went too far. I just think that Spurs fans are being unusually irrational about the state of the team right now and am sort of on a hair trigger about it after the with the deadline just passing. The Spurs are the second-best team in the league. If something happens that forces them to make changes, we can think about that in June right now, nothing interesting is really going to happen until the post-season begins.

We cool now? Neither one of us thinks the Spurs are going to tank any years of Kawhi's prime, and neither wants to trade him. I'm willing to own up to not seeing your edit so long as you understand that you did make the edit after I had already started to respond. It was just two ships passing each other in the day. I don't have any beef with you, and don't want to have any after this.

[DPG21920]

They have guys to consider reupping and will have holes. It's inescapable that they will have to pay somebody(ies)

What I meant by dead money is no stretching of anyone's contract. They don't need that dead money on the roster for 2019+ when the Spurs will be in excellent shape.

[Chinook]

What I meant by dead money is no stretching of anyone's contract. They don't need that dead money on the roster for 2019+ when the Spurs will be in excellent shape.

Yeah, Tim's and Livio's deal s are already annoying, and in 2018, they'll be even worse. Can't imagine adding like $5-11 Million more just to have money today. Totally work the pick to move whomever they need to if they're desperate for space.

[SAGirl]

What I meant by dead money is no stretching of anyone's contract. They don't need that dead money on the roster for 2019+ when the Spurs will be in excellent shape.

? Then I got lost in this plot. There are like 3 different parallel conversations in this thread.

[Chinook]

? Then I got lost in this plot. There are like 3 different parallel conversations in this thread.

DPG's dead-money comment was about people asking after the possibility of stretching Pau or Parker. It wasn't about re-signing guys this summer, though you could argue that in order to do the second thing, they might have to do the first.

[DPG21920]

Yeah, Tim's and Livio's deal s are already annoying, and in 2018, they'll be even worse. Can't imagine adding like $5-11 Million more just to have money today. Totally work the pick to move whomever they need to if they're desperate for space.

Yup. I'm of the opinion unless you think you are getting a long-term solution next year you just do what you can reasonably (maybe get PG help) without putting anything unnecessary (especially dead money) on the books. Spurs will still be a damn good team and in 2019 be in an unreal position to set the next 4-5 years up with Kawhi core.

[DPG21920]

DPG's dead-money comment was about people asking after the possibility of stretching Pau or Parker. It wasn't about re-signing guys this summer, though you could argue that in order to do the second thing, they might have to do the first.

Maybe, but not really. Spurs could just use the MLE on the best guard possible or re-sign Mills knowing he will be moved in 2019 to free up the longer term opportunity. Don't need any cap space to sign Mills.

[Chinook]

Maybe, but not really. Spurs could just use the MLE on the best guard possible or re-sign Mills knowing he will be moved in 2019 to free up the longer term opportunity. Don't need any cap space to sign Mills.

In the Think Tank, I laid out a semi-optimistic scenario for the team. You're right that they don't need cap space if they don't keep Dedmon or get him to come back for the MLE or less. However, depending on how essential they think he is, they might have to clear salary in some fashion or another to get enough room to re-up him. Roster charges and cap holds are a under this new CBA, and the cap is stagnating in a way no one predicted a year ago.

[DPG21920]

In the Think Tank, I laid out a semi-optimistic scenario for the team. You're right that they don't need cap space if they don't keep Dedmon or get him to come back for the MLE or less. However, depending on how essential they think he is, they might have to clear salary in some fashion or another to get enough room to re-up him. Roster charges and cap holds are a under this new CBA, and the cap is stagnating in a way no one predicted a year ago.

I had not seen that - just saw it and great work per the usual

I had forgotten about Dedmon not having full Birds so I did not take that into consideration but honestly does not change my stance or calculations too much.

[SAGirl]

DPG's dead-money comment was about people asking after the possibility of stretching Pau or Parker. It wasn't about re-signing guys this summer, though you could argue that in order to do the second thing, they might have to do the first.

Thanks for the clarification. I remember now. Since the original subject was about going after Hill... guys started to inquire about stretching others.

Pau renegotiating his deal wouldn't be dead money bc he'd still be playing. He's said he's picking his option though I suppose he could be convinced. I wouldn't take that for granted though.

For the record and since the original topic was Hill. I do like him but he will get priced out of Spurs budget. Without the Spurs exploring options to trade Tony theres just no point to even look at other quality starting PG in the league. I also thought there was no chance at Conley last season for the same reason.

Anyways I tend to agree with you in that Pop sticks with Tony as the starter for the remainder of his deal for better or worse. Some fans like sasaint are alarmed by that at ude from PATFO and I share in that to some degree. Tony has become brittle and will decline more and more. However, by the time Tony's contract is up maybe Murray will be a force that's already deserving of a starting spot and that will be evident (same as Desmond quality of play speaks for itself in terms of how much he's improved from his preseason appearances). I deduce Pop is hopeful in Dijon that he can be it. If he's not, they will still need to look around at other options and will do that in due time.

[mo7888]

Huh? I didn't omit anything. Your "notation" came in an edit posted after I had either posted or started typing the response. It's not quoted because it wasn't there to quote originally. That happens from time to time if someone replies quickly and is at best an honestly mistake. I'm really not trying to throw shade at you or jump down your throat. I apologize if I went too far. I just think that Spurs fans are being unusually irrational about the state of the team right now and am sort of on a hair trigger about it after the with the deadline just passing. The Spurs are the second-best team in the league. If something happens that forces them to make changes, we can think about that in June right now, nothing interesting is really going to happen until the post-season begins.

We cool now? Neither one of us thinks the Spurs are going to tank any years of Kawhi's prime, and neither wants to trade him. I'm willing to own up to not seeing your edit so long as you understand that you did make the edit after I had already started to respond. It was just two ships passing each other in the day. I don't have any beef with you, and don't want to have any after this.

We're cool...I think that's fair and we generally agree on where the spurs are and on what they should do anyway. Our differences are usually based on semantics instead of substance on most things. I can certainly understand how you started writing a response before my edit showed up there...that's perfectly logical..

[palangi]

The SAG?

Uh oh.....Chinook spell is coming off. He doesn't like it.

[palangi]

Murray is an unknown. He isn't gonna start over porker, and certainly won't get minutes over MVPatty. We might as well throw in the towel if he gets any significant minutes these playoffs. FACTS.

Opinion.

[sasaint]

Thanks for the clarification. I remember now. Since the original subject was about going after Hill... guys started to inquire about stretching others.

Pau renegotiating his deal wouldn't be dead money bc he'd still be playing. He's said he's picking his option though I suppose he could be convinced. I wouldn't take that for granted though.

For the record and since the original topic was Hill. I do like him but he will get priced out of Spurs budget. Without the Spurs exploring options to trade Tony theres just no point to even look at other quality starting PG in the league. I also thought there was no chance at Conley last season for the same reason.

Anyways I tend to agree with you in that Pop sticks with Tony as the starter for the remainder of his deal for better or worse. Some fans like sasaint are alarmed by that at ude from PATFO and I share in that to some degree. Tony has become brittle and will decline more and more. However, by the time Tony's contract is up maybe Murray will be a force that's already deserving of a starting spot and that will be evident (same as Desmond quality of play speaks for itself in terms of how much he's improved from his preseason appearances). I deduce Pop is hopeful in Dijon that he can be it. If he's not, they will still need to look around at other options and will do that in due time.

I believed Pau would exercise his option before his announcement. The announcement seemed like the lock. But now I am starting to wonder what the world looks like through Pau's eyes. How many more years does he plan to play? Does he plan to retire as a Spur? It's not like he is a legend for any particular franchise where he might prefer to retire. So, if he wants to play more than just one more year, and PATFO wants him for a longer time as well, it would make great sense to come to an agreement so that he could opt out and take a reduced salary for more years for the Spurs to have some more cap space for an upgrade or two. Maybe...

As for Tony, I have never been a Tony hater. In fact, I think he would be a very good replacement for Manu on the second unit and a great insurance policy for Murray. Tony clearly has more left in the tank than Manu. But Tony is very clearly in decline, too. Just before the ASG, many posters (not including myself, btw) were expressing alarm about his very meh 3-4 game stretch. We aren't even talking about D. Tony is still able to bring it more frequently than Manu, but between his off-games and his injuries how many games out of 82 is he a PG you want starting for a team that perrennially aspires to contend for a championship?