kawhi is the new robinson. both are great in regular season, both choker in the playoffs. now we just need kawhi to break his back or something so we can draft the next duncan, tbh. the sooner the better.
He has us with the 2ND best record in the league, Kawhi isn't the problem, his teammates are.
I have never seen OP to be correct tbh.
When he gets doubled and fails to move the ball, they both are.
As orchestrated by 4 Dumb coach.
Lots of times it's not "who can you pass it to so they can shoot" but rather two passes need to be made.
That's what Golden does. All the ing time.
It's not rocket scientist basketball.
Spurs don't need an ALL-Star point guard..I mean it'd be nice but it's not what they need.
But I do agree this team needs dribble-drive players..who can pass and score..we really don't have any tbh
Parker-He can't really do much other than get shots for himself and was never a great passer. Can only play limited minutes
Manu- Great passer and by far the best on the team but can't penetrate to score or finish/draw fouls. Strictly a passer these days..Can also play limited minutes
Simmons-Can get in the paint and finish/draw fouls but has tunnel vision and struggles to make right pass or read when needed.
Murray- Probably our best overall dribble/drive player but tooooo many turnovers and honestly can't rely on him come postseason. He can help next year but I don't think he can this year.
Kawhi- Tunnel vision. Can get into paint but doesn't get to the rim enough. And he drives to strictly score and not ignite ball movement by kicking it out.
Patty/Green- Neither can get into the paint and are strictly shooters.
Bottom line is Spurs don't have the personnel to do what OP wants so yes the Spurs must rely on LMA/Kawhi ISO midrange games. Is it good enough? Probably not. But they're the 2nd best team in the league regardless
And BTW yes Spurs won 67 games last year but they lost against OKC due to lack of size (Diaw/West) and Duncan 40yr old knees calling it quits. You can't compare the teams and suggest the teams downfall last year will be the same this year. Just simply not true....and let's also not that series was controversial (Game 2, Game 5)
You had a good point. Specially bc when he's playing with Lamarcus and Pau, both jumpshooting bigs, and Pop even takes Tony out, he's surrounded by shooters and needs to get to the basket. If his 3 isn't falling it's in part bc he is forcing it too much. Forget the 3 unless you are spotted up and Lamarcus or someone creates that shot.... get to the basket Kiwi.
True. Leonard making tough midrange 2's may get him points but don't really open up any shots for his teammates. Nothing exactly wrong with that but Spurs need someone to draw in defenders to create shots for it's shooters. They don't have curry or Thompson level shooters so the shooters need some space to make shots.
Problem is no one is getting into the paint and scoring except off offensive boards. LMA can't even post up people 5 inches shorter than him. Parker can no longer penetrate and everyone else only shoots jumpers. Leonard gets into the paint but he doesn't destroy defenses by doing it like Lebron or Harden. Spurs desperately needs Murray to develop. Hopefully by then, spurs would also get rid of parker and Softridge.
he needs to get better at handling the double teams. leonard has not yet hit his ceiling.
People don't ing get it. A star PG would only fix the problem in the sense that the non-Kawhi half of the offense would be better. It won't actually make the Kawhi half better. I feel like it's been years now that the Spurs have had these same problems with Kawhiso, and so many posters ignore it.
It very obviously hurts the D to have a wing so low for most possessions. When Kawhi makes his shots, it's easier to adjust to the poor defensive spacing. But in a game like last night where he misses or turns it over repeatedly, it consistently gets the Spurs in bad positions. You need two perimeter players above the FTLE to have defensive integrity, and too often, Kawhiso leads to either four players below the line or a big and a small as the above-FTLE players. This lack of integrity is the primary reason why continues to have a horrible defensive on-off.
There are games where everybody else sucks and Kawhi has to keep pounding the rock. But this wasn't one of those games. Leonard has to understand that sometimes he doesn't have the hot hand and that he needs to find the guys who do. Tim, Tony and Manu all understand/understood that and gave the ball to role-players at times even at the expense of their own touches. Kawhi has to develop that level of understanding to be the type of stars those guys were.
This is also on Pop, because independent of Kawhi's decision-making, Pop should have run plays for other guys. I don't know if he ran any non-OOB play all night. He tries to take control at really pointless times, but then when the team is floundering, he seems to be unable to do anything past benching guys (even if those guys aren't the particular problem). I want to say he's just saving up plays for the WCF, but as we all know, the Spurs may well not even get there.
Last edited by Chinook; 03-30-2017 at 01:22 PM.
Let me paraphrase. Kawhi is good when he makes baskets. Kawhi is not good when he doesn't make baskets. That's really what you just said right now.
It can't be helped when the best players have their game based on the post, and the offense is structured for them.
I do think Pop is constantly pushing guys to move without the ball and to pass the ball as well. They don't execute well though bc:
No. 1: they don't have an elite passer in that starting lineup which causes them to miss shot opportunities often. Kawhi is creating a lot more. In fact, he's probably the best in the starting lineup right this moment creating for others and is generating 5 or 6 assists per game lately, but he's also TO over too much, and having too many Kawhobe moments Or Kobme as Mul roll calls them. Aside from him, Tony is done, which is a shame bc some of his best games he was generating a lot of ball movement and assists. Lamarcus is also trying to pass more but his 2 man game with Green can get cringe worthy... etc. and he doesn't have good court vision. I don't think he's selfish quite honestly, just doesn't have that passing talent that other talented bigs have. Danny actually has a good A/TO ratio and knows the offense well enough to make good passes, but he's also going to have shaktin a fool passes every so often. Then Dedmon is a guy you really don't want to make anything but the easiest of passes like a hand off.
No. 2: they don't have good off the ball players in that lineup. Danny is the best bc he can shoot, he runs off screens and tries to cut and stay active. They don't find him enough. He then engages in this 2 man game with Lamarcus more than anything bc of Lamarcus not bc he wouldn't rather be running of screens to get open for example. Dedmon is limited off the ball bc he can only screen and roll and he doesn't have such great hands that you can throw him a lob unless his man completely abandoned his assignment. If his man is in his vicinity you can't lob to him.. it will be a steal... he really doesn't have the best hands... not quite Jeff Errors but it's risky unless he's clearly open. Against the good defenses that doesn't happen that often.
Tony doesn't play off the ball well at all. It's probably one of the reasons he stopped fitting in with the group (aside from just looking done). He's not active cutting, he doesn't launch a 3 with no conscience unless he's wide open and no one is coming to bother him, he doesn't set screens for others, etc. He's one of the least useful players in that group. I think he played with the ball all his career and playing without the ball just doesn't suit him. Might be too old to adapt. Manu plays off the ball better, he cuts, he screens, he can shoot the 3, he has a good sense of when to come in and help a ball handler in trouble through a cut for example. Tony doesn't do any of that.
Kawhi gets the heat as he should bc he's an MVP candidate but Pop needs to get an above average passer in that group to help out. I believe that is what he had in mind with Pau, but unfortunately him being like the statue of liberty on defense got him sent to the bench.
They just have flaws and Kawhi has tried to compensate for everything but he could really use a PG with a better court vision and off the ball play will help them out more. Maybe Murray is that guy in the future. One can hope.
Sagirl gets it here. Pop would love to go back to 2014. Everyone would. Including kawhi. The problem is those players are old and can't do it anymore. You need to be able to attack the basket. Green Manu and Tony can't do that anymore. When we do it looks tragic and a pile of . I can't believe no one has told Pop why we can't go back to 2014 team ball movement.
You make a lot of interesting points here. Not only Tim, Tony and Manu, other HoF players like Lebron for example also pass the ball to teammates recognizing better options all the time. If Lebron didn't have that talent he would just be a freak athlete... but it's how smart he is on the court that makes him so dangerous IMO (coupled with all of his other physical gifts and talents of course). I think Kawhi is still growing as a player and learning from situations like this (I hope).
I also think Pop sometimes lets guys out there to see what they do. Sometimes he's a spectator, maybe he gave them a plan and wanted to see how they executed what he planned without constant direction. He is more involved at times, but there are games or moments he just sits back. The 1 seed wasn't as important as the growth and learning opportunity. I want to think Pop still has that fire in his belly and that an observant passive Pop like we saw last night at moments is just a Pop that is learning (the CIA Pop?) and will adapt. I don't want to think Pop is done either.
We definitely need ball movement or theres no use even trying. Kawhi really forced the issue with being ISO last night. Understandable considering the great D of GSW but even with that he went overboard and should have tried to remain calm amid the storm. I agree with SAGirl that KL has been passing the ball alot more lately and thats great but he should have tried a little harder to pass last night. When it gets to be nervous time instinct says dont pass, do it yourself and thats the challenge, to believe in your teammates when you want to take over. Its a battle of composure as much as anything. Having said that KL was trying to drive to the hoop in order to open things up not be selfish necessarily.
I think the biggest disappointment was Parker. Yes he doesnt have what he used to but we still need what he CAN give. Seemed like when things were in the balance he admitted to himself that he wasnt up to the challenge. He still couldve driven and passed or if missed we could crash the glass.
I thought we did good up until D West did what he did. He single handedly took away what was supposed to be our advantage which was size and strength.
I still feel we have the blueprint to beat GSW but we have to win the battle of hustle and composure.
Why join a non-talented team, so he can struggle more to get a ring? He could have done that anywhere.
If there was a star PG who was a legit scoring threat from outside and who could attack the paint, it would make the Kawhi part of the offense better because it reduces the amount of defense the other team and assign to Kawhi. That same principle is why the Warriors are so hard to guard. It's not a paradigm shift, old as the game itself. Better players make players better.
The point is that it has nothing to do with Kawhi's skill level or success rate. So long as he keep shooting from those parts of the floor, the team will be at the mercy of his FG%. Him being able to score from his spots if not an issue right now, and it would be at best marginally improved with a better PG.
You're correct in that teams couldn't double him as much if there were some star guard who split the offense with Kawhi. I'm not arguing that. But Kawhi didn't use 28 possessions because his supporting cast sucked.
Kawhi lost a game and all ya like little gots. Literally 1 game all year. That's it.
If anything, this game is an outlier for all ya stat nerds.
But Kawhi has been passing more so dont think he really wants to play the ISO game as much as he feels he needs to because someones got to attract the double team to create the open shooter. LAs post game is very unrefined, the only thing hes really good at is shooting. If we had a more dangerous PG, Im sure Kawhi would have no problem letting him control things more.
Yeah I dont get the Kawhi bashing. Pop still wants to run Parker and Manu out there as major contributors of this team.Kawhi lost a game and all ya like little gots. Literally 1 game all year. That's it.
so you're saying he needs someone better than tony parker... the same tony parker that you made threads so you can rave about him?
you have no foresight.
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