Kawhi's offensive game is "antiquated."

[SpursforSix]

Yeah I dont get the Kawhi bashing. Pop still wants to run Parker and Manu out there as major contributors of this team.

Spurstalk - "where every player sucks"

[TD 21]

I've been saying this for a few years and it goes for Aldridge too.

You just can't generate enough offense to win a championship in this era, if your top players are mostly mid range/post up players, with below average play making.

Leonard can definitely be the best player on a championship team, but not the primary ball handler.

As much as many of us (myself included) complain about Pop the last few years, style of play is mostly predicated on the skill sets of your best players. The "beautiful game" wasn't because Pop stressed ball movement (what coach doesn't?), it was partially because the big three naturally played that way, as did many of the role players and partially because with Duncan post prime, they could no longer out superstar the other elites, so they had to in order to beat those teams.

This team has been a more conventional team (even with an antiquated style) since then, only they still have inferior star power to the other elites.

[SAGirl]

[RD2191]

People don't ing get it. A star PG would only fix the problem in the sense that the non-Kawhi half of the offense would be better. It won't actually make the Kawhi half better. I feel like it's been years now that the Spurs have had these same problems with Kawhiso, and so many posters ignore it.

It very obviously hurts the D to have a wing so low for most possessions. When Kawhi makes his shots, it's easier to adjust to the poor defensive spacing. But in a game like last night where he misses or turns it over repeatedly, it consistently gets the Spurs in bad positions. You need two perimeter players above the FTLE to have defensive integrity, and too often, Kawhiso leads to either four players below the line or a big and a small as the above-FTLE players. This lack of integrity is the primary reason why continues to have a horrible defensive on-off.

There are games where everybody else sucks and Kawhi has to keep pounding the rock. But this wasn't one of those games. Leonard has to understand that sometimes he doesn't have the hot hand and that he needs to find the guys who do. Tim, Tony and Manu all understand/understood that and gave the ball to role-players at times even at the expense of their own touches. Kawhi has to develop that level of understanding to be the type of stars those guys were.

This is also on Pop, because independent of Kawhi's decision-making, Pop should have run plays for other guys. I don't know if he ran any non-OOB play all night. He tries to take control at really pointless times, but then when the team is floundering, he seems to be unable to do anything past benching guys (even if those guys aren't the particular problem). I want to say he's just saving up plays for the WCF, but as we all know, the Spurs may well not even get there.

Lol. You're repeating the same stupid you were saying last night.

[RD2191]

Kawhi lost a game and all ya like little gots. Literally 1 game all year. That's it.

But stats! Stupid ing gots. We have the 2nd best record in the league behind a team with 4 all stars and two MVPs. Kawhi should be the MVP, he's carried these sacks of all year.

[dabom]

But stats! Stupid ing gots. We have the 2nd best record in the league behind a team with 4 all stars and two MVPs. Kawhi should be the MVP, he's carried these sacks of all year.

[midnightpulp]

so you're saying he needs someone better than tony parker... the same tony parker that you made threads so you can rave about him?

you have no foresight.

It always comes back to Parker with you. Holy you're obsessed.

And you still fail to understand why I supported Parker. Even Dabom gets it. Look, dip . This team never developed nor signed a young penetrating PG who can also do some playmaking. , they didn't develop an SG that is a penetration threat aside from Simmons who is way too rough to trust. So where does that leave us? Relying on Parker. Me being a Spurs fan over a player fan, of course I'm going to support him and hope he finds some of his prime form. He's shown flashes going back to last year, but it's obvious he's done.

"Patty, Patty, Patty..."

Get it through your thick in' skull that Patty isn't the solution to this problem. He can't penetrate and is a one dimensional undersized Reggie Miller clone. He's a bench sparkplug. That's it. Okay. Say your dream comes true and Patty starts. What happens to the bench? Oh yeah, your favorite player "Porker" leading a group he's totally incompatible with.

You're the one who lacks foresight and in' commonsense on top of that.

[midnightpulp]

I have never seen OP to be correct tbh.

"Patty gonna show up in the playoffs. Porker ain't no third option!"



I'm right the majority of the time, and I'll be right in this case. Post-up/midrange centric teams are a recipe for failure in the modern NBA. It's going to take a HISTORIC effort by Kawhi and LMA to give the Spurs a shot.

[Chinook]

Lol. You're repeating the same stupid you were saying last night.

It wasn't stupid then, and it's not stupid now. That you don't seem to be able to see the larger picture of the offense doesn't make any difference.

But please, before "Tell Pop to fix it then, because that's what message boards are for."

[dabom]

"Patty gonna show up in the playoffs. Porker ain't no third option!"



I'm right the majority of the time, and I'll be right in this case. Post-up/midrange centric teams are a recipe for failure in the modern NBA. It's going to take a HISTORIC effort by Kawhi and LMA to give the Spurs a shot.

Every ing year you say porker is good.

[SpursforSix]

Every ing year you say porker is good.

#Phoenixrising

[dabom]

#Phoenixrising

[midnightpulp]

I've been saying this for a few years and it goes for Aldridge too.

You just can't generate enough offense to win a championship in this era, if your top players are mostly mid range/post up players, with below average play making.

Leonard can definitely be the best player on a championship team, but not the primary ball handler.

As much as many of us (myself included) complain about Pop the last few years, style of play is mostly predicated on the skill sets of your best players. The "beautiful game" wasn't because Pop stressed ball movement (what coach doesn't?), it was partially because the big three naturally played that way, as did many of the role players and partially because with Duncan post prime, they could no longer out superstar the other elites, so they had to in order to beat those teams.

This team has been a more conventional team (even with an antiquated style) since then, only they still have inferior star power to the other elites.

This simple fact eludes many of the fanboys here.

PPS of all shots:



I posted earlier that Kawhi takes over 50% of his shots from the "green" areas. I don't care how efficient he is currently from there, it's likely not sustainable and teams, especially in a playoff series, will be content with him "beating" them from those spots. It's not an "insult" against Kawhi, it's simple math.

Kawhi averages 18 shots per game, so about 9 of those are mid range shots. Kawhi's FG% from the midrange is about 50%, which truly is an amazing mark. Kobe, who was always lauded as the "best midrange shooter in the game," averaged about 42% from those areas. Dirk was another deadeye from those spots. Averaged about 46%. So Kawhi produces exactly 1 PPS from the midrange. All a 3 point shooter (like Harden or Curry) has to do to equalize Kawhi's production is shoot 33%. And the midrange shots Kawhi usually takes are actually harder than the type of screened 3 pointers Harden and Curry take.

Furthermore, midrange offenses don't "pressure" defenses compared to all the chasing you have to do to run the Golden State's and Houston's off the line or the collapsing you have to do against penetrators.

It's just not going to work.

[midnightpulp]

Every ing year you say porker is good.

I don't remember supporting him in '15.

I was right. Parker was pretty good against OKC. 11 and 6 on 47% shooting. How'd your boy House do? Wasn't he supposed to "show up" for the playoffs?

Parker finally is done, however.

[SpursforSix]

This simple fact eludes many of the fanboys here.

PPS of all shots:



I posted earlier that Kawhi takes over 50% of his shots from the "green" areas. I don't care how efficient he is currently from there, it's likely not sustainable and teams, especially in a playoff series, will be content with him "beating" them from those spots. It's not an "insult" against Kawhi, it's simple math.

Kawhi averages 18 shots per game, so about 9 of those are mid range shots. Kawhi's FG% from the midrange is about 50%, which truly is an amazing mark. Kobe, who was always lauded as the "best midrange shooter in the game," averaged about 42% from those areas. Dirk was another deadeye from those spots. Averaged about 46%. So Kawhi produces exactly 1 PPS from the midrange. All a 3 point shooter (like Harden or Curry) has to do to equalize Kawhi's production is shoot 33%. And the midrange shots Kawhi usually takes are actually harder than the type of screened 3 pointers Harden and Curry take.

Furthermore, midrange offenses don't "pressure" defenses compared to all the chasing you have to do to run the Golden State's and Houston's off the line or the collapsing you have to do against penetrators.

It's just not going to work.

They've got the second best record in the NBA. Kobe did all right. Quit being gay.

[midnightpulp]

They've got the second best record in the NBA. Kobe did all right. Quit being gay.

How'd the second best record work out last year?

Second best record

Who gives a .

[SpursforSix]

How'd the second best record work out last year?

Second best record

Who gives a .

I get it...ring or bust. But Leonard's been pretty damn good with the midrange game and carried the team in his back to a damn good record. Not his fault the team can't find consistent three point shooting. His game is on point.

[midnightpulp]

I get it...ring or bust. But Leonard's been pretty damn good with the midrange game and carried the team in his back to a damn good record. Not his fault the team can't find consistent three point shooting. His game is on point.

He's responsible for some of that issue. Shooting about .290 from deep going back to Feb. 1.

[UZER]

How'd the second best record work out last year?

Second best record

Who gives a .

How did the best record work out last year?

[SpursforSix]

He's responsible for some of that issue. Shooting about .290 from deep going back to Feb. 1.

I don't think he's ever going to be a knock down three point shooter. He'll have stretches where he's very good but imo, he's just not built to shoot the three. The longer someone is, the more motion that goes into the shot. That being said, I think he could be on the same level as Jordan and Lebron. He'll be dangerous enough from the arc that the defense will have to cover him. That opens up the drive. If he can't get to the rim, then he's got a damn good midrange shot or post up. I really think you're way off in this.

Not to mention, he's made discernible improvements every year and may prove me wrong on the theee point shot.

[SpursforSix]

How did the best record work out last year?

[FkLA]

Kawhi averages 18 shots per game, so about 9 of those are mid range shots. Kawhi's FG% from the midrange is about 50%, which truly is an amazing mark. Kobe, who was always lauded as the "best midrange shooter in the game," averaged about 42% from those areas. Dirk was another deadeye from those spots. Averaged about 46%. So Kawhi produces exactly 1 PPS from the midrange. All a 3 point shooter (like Harden or Curry) has to do to equalize Kawhi's production is shoot 33%. And the midrange shots Kawhi usually takes are actually harder than the type of screened 3 pointers Harden and Curry take.

Wait, so Kawhi struggles for two months from deep and all of a sudden he isn't a three-point shooter? You refer to Harden and Curry as three-point shooters as if Kawhi is Derozan or some . Also I don't get why you discredit Kawhi's midrange game just because those shots are hard for everyone else. You yourself pointed out that Kawhi is shooting significantly higher from midrange than they are from three, so no those shots aren't harder for Kawhi than threes are for them.

Plus Harden and Curry have shown a tendency to come down to earth in the playoffs. Their styles aren't without flaws.

[FkLA]

I don't think he's ever going to be a knock down three point shooter. He'll have stretches where he's very good but imo, he's just not built to shoot the three. The longer someone is, the more motion that goes into the shot. That being said, I think he could be on the same level as Jordan and Lebron. He'll be dangerous enough from the arc that the defense will have to cover him. That opens up the drive. If he can't get to the rim, then he's got a damn good midrange shot or post up. I really think you're way off in this.

Not to mention, he's made discernible improvements every year and may prove me wrong on the theee point shot.

WTF are we forgetting that he shot 44% last year? Or that he was pretty much at 40% this year prior to his struggles these past two months? God damn talk about recency bias. He's already a better three-point shooter than other midrange guys like MJ/Kirby ever were. He's a better shooter than Bron too.

[midnightpulp]

How did the best record work out last year?

Exactly. Regular season records are pretty meaningless.

[midnightpulp]

Wait, so Kawhi struggles for two months from deep and all of a sudden he isn't a three-point shooter? You refer to Harden and Curry as three-point shooters as if Kawhi is Derozan or some . Also I don't get why you discredit Kawhi's midrange game just because those shots are hard for everyone else. You yourself pointed out that Kawhi is shooting significantly higher from midrange than they are from three, so no those shots aren't harder for Kawhi than threes are for them.

Plus Harden and Curry have shown a tendency to come down to earth in the playoffs. Their styles aren't without flaws.

I'm not discrediting anything.

Again, simple math. 50% from midrange=33% from downtown. Curry takes over half his shots from three (54%). Harden takes 48% of his shots from three. Curry shoots 40% from three. Harden shoots 36%. Thus, Curry averages 12 points for 10 three point shots, Harden averages about 11 points for 10 shots, while Kawhi averages 10 points for 10 midrange shots. A midrange centric player can't win the "efficiency war" against 3 point centric players. Just not going to happen.

"Well, Kawhi is a deadeye from downtown."

Aside from the past couple of months, he is. But he doesn't shoot them at a high enough volume. If he took 3 of those 9 midrange attempts per game and used them on threes, I'd be a lot more comfortable. But I don't think that's happening because Kawhi isn't really an off-the-dribble gunner like Harden, Curry, etc.

This is also why basketball is currently broken. It's re ed to value one shot 50% more that is nowhere near 50% harder to make (proven by the relative shooting percentages). I want Kawhi's style to win out. But it won't.