Flynn in major trouble for speaking to Russia about sanctions

[pgardn]

I can youtube videos too.



Trump

This is not news. This is an act.

"I bet there is no connection" waits for hostess to give connection...

Christ... It's sparsely entertaining, but as far as news?
"These guys know exactly what they are doing" then... "What's wrong with these people can't they understand"
Well what is it? They are deviously clever planners, bumbling liars, what?

So as I thought, I will miss this show on a regular basis.

[Reck]

i mean, did i miss something?

Apparently yes, you did.

Are you not aware that the FBI is carrying out an ongoing investigation into Russia meddling into the 2016 election as well as the Trump campaign?

[pgardn]

i really don't get why the left is suddenly so obsessed with the russians. have we regressed back to the days of the red menace? i mean, no other country has ed with the sovereignty of other countries elections or policies as the U.S. has since the end of the Cold War. and now, there is a deep concern that the ruskies colluded with president oompa loompa during the election. was trump surveilled by someone? it's possible. most presidents are surveilled. was there hacking? sure. the chinese hacked us. we hacked the russians. of course there is hacking. it's today's current modus operandi. but i think it's careless to perpetuate this russian narrative to the extent it is being played out. it's the deep state's wet dream as a matter of fact. i mean, did i miss something? when did the left suddenly embrace the intelligence community? this is all so much out of a joseph er novel it's almost surreal.

The Soviet Union and now Russia have not had to fool with elections. They just put their guy in place. And yes we have done the same. But it is more difficult now. We can actually get called out by our own government and press. The press is no longer a cheer leader as in WWII and the start of the Cold War.

Also consider why we will not attempt to influence Russian elections. I think Putin is up for election in a year or two...? Good luck with influencing that democratic process. So what is clear is they definitely and now admittedly fooled with our inefficient process. We must address this. They really are just showing they can invoke chaos, not pick our leaders.

[rjv]

Apparently yes, you did.

Are you not aware that the FBI is carrying out an ongoing investigation into Russia meddling into the 2016 election as well as the Trump campaign?

yes, i'm aware that the FBI is ongoing an investigation into Russian interference. i'm also aware the the U.S. meddled with the Ukranian elections. i'm also aware that the FBI has an agenda as does the CIA and the rest of the intelligence community. at the moment, this agenda is of great benefit to both parties (although not necessarily for trump).

[Reck]

yes, i'm aware that the FBI is ongoing an investigation into Russian interference. i'm also aware the the U.S. meddled with the Ukranian elections. i'm also aware that the FBI has an agenda as does the CIA and the rest of the intelligence community. at the moment, this agenda is of great benefit to both parties (although not necessarily for trump).

But it disproves your running theory that the left just suddenly are picking up the Russian story like it was a random act.

[rjv]

The Soviet Union and now Russia have not had to fool with elections. They just put their guy in place. And yes we have done the same. But it is more difficult now. We can actually get called out by our own government and press. The press is no longer a cheer leader as in WWII and the start of the Cold War.

Also consider why we will not attempt to influence Russian elections. I think Putin is up for election in a year or two... Good luck with influencing that democratic process.

i'm simply saying that there are factions in washington that have invested into NATO and economic control of the ukraine as well as most of eastern europe. and the only press that will really call out our actions is the independent press. our mainstream media will do what they usually do and focus on the perfunctory elements.

[rjv]

But it disproves your running theory that the left just suddenly are picking up the Russian story like it was a random act.

there is no "theory" here. it's just tautological. the intelligence community has its own agenda and will serve whoever they need to in order to perpetuate its own interests. of course this isn't random. russia has its interest too. this is nothing new. this is the standard fare since WWII.

[pgardn]

i'm simply saying that there are factions in washington that have invested into NATO and economic control of the ukraine as well as most of eastern europe. and the only press that will really call out our actions is the independent press. our mainstream media will do what they usually do and focus on the perfunctory elements.

My take on Ukraine is massive corruption. Before the Russians got their man in place, there was a proWest women who was very corrupt. Their version of lower houses threw her out and the proRussian was put into place. He too, was massively corrupt and incompetent. The people rumbled, and we backed the Chocolate magnate after doing our homework and not backing the proWestern woman again. The chocolate guy has had a ton of trouble removing corrupt elements, some of which are aiding in pushing back against the Russian backed forces in Eastern Ukraine.

Its a mess with these endemically corrupt government ins utions that were under Soviet influence for so long.

[boutons_deux]

My take on USA is massive corruption.

IIRC, the big motivation to befriend and bring Ukraine into NATO, was for BigAg to take over U's hugely productive agricultural regions, and/or enslave Ukraine's BigAg and farmers to US poisons and GMO seeds.

[pgardn]

there is no "theory" here. it's just tautological. the intelligence community has its own agenda and will serve whoever they need to in order to perpetuate its own interests. of course this isn't random. russia has its interest too. this is nothing new. this is the standard fare since WWII.

I respectfully think this is an overstatement. We have had factions within the intelligence community that look to self perpetuate and even try to grab power from competing intelligence en ities. But I believe there is a sizable contingent within intelligence that want to do the best for the country. This creates a problem with various presidents who have their own agendas for the intelligence community. It a tough spot. That's why ex intelligence officials will come out and give us their opinions which we have access to. Some are very liberal minded, some more conservative, and occasionally their stories have a common theme. And one theme I pick up is that different democratically elected government en ies not related to intelligence want to use the intelligence community for varying purposes.

[rjv]

My take on Ukraine is massive corruption. Before the Russians got their man in place, there was a proWest women who was very corrupt. Their version of lower houses threw her out and the proRussian was put into place. He too, was massively corrupt and incompetent. The people rumbled, and we backed the Chocolate magnate after doing our homework and not backing the proWestern woman again. The chocolate guy has had a ton of trouble removing corrupt elements, some of which are aiding in pushing back against the Russian backed forces in Eastern Ukraine.

Its a mess with these endemically corrupt government ins utions that were under Soviet influence for so long.

indeed, the calculus of this region is mired in draconian intentions from the Russian annexation of Crimea to the US/NATO led expansion onto Russian borders (which of course conflicts with certain post WWII "agreements"). the US is intent on making Russia a pariah state, and that is a bipartisan effort at that.

[pgardn]

My take on USA is massive corruption.

IIRC, the big motivation to befriend and bring Ukraine into NATO, was for BigAg to take over U's hugely productive agricultural regions, and/or enslave Ukraine's BigAg and farmers to US poisons and GMO seeds.

Sure business interests play a role.
But because I know you are a fckn nut and you overstate everything.
You have no clue about GMO. I do know that. You have no idea how helpful GMO organisms have been. Because you don't understand basic biology or science. Therefore, when there is a legitimate concern, you don't get a listen. You follow an ideology, you don't want the whole story as it might not fit your worldview.

[boutons_deux]

Sure business interests play a role.
But because I know you are a fckn nut and you overstate everything.
You have no clue about GMO. I do know that. You have no idea how helpful GMO organisms have been. Because you don't understand basic biology or science. Therefore, when there is a legitimate concern, you don't get a listen. You follow an ideology, you don't want the whole story as it might not fit your worldview.

yet again, another ED UP take by GMO-devotee pfartin, G F Y

[pgardn]

indeed, the calculus of this region is mired in draconian intentions from the Russian annexation of Crimea to the US/NATO led expansion onto Russian borders (which of course conflicts with certain post WWII "agreements"). the US is intent on making Russia a pariah state, and that is a bipartisan effort at that.

Putin has basically asked for this.
When an authoritarian thug leads a country with so much potential, it is very difficult to find common ground. This is why bipartisanship even exists on Russia. Maybe getting innocents on their transportation system blown up by terrorists will bring us to some commonality.

[rjv]

I respectfully think this is an overstatement. We have had factions within the intelligence community that look to self perpetuate and even try to grab power from competing intelligence en ities. But I believe there is a sizable contingent within intelligence that want to do the best for the country. This creates a problem with various presidents who have their own agendas for the intelligence community. It a tough spot. That's why ex intelligence officials will come out and give us their opinions which we have access to. Some are very liberal minded, some more conservative, and occasionally their stories have a common theme. And one theme I pick up is that different democratically elected government en ies not related to intelligence want to use the intelligence community for varying purposes.

i get that and perhaps i should have added to that post what i added to another, which is that the efforts against russia are not simply motivated by a deep state but also serve the interests of both parties (especially as they adhere to the operating neoliberal policies which have been in place since Reagan). there was a really great article written by professor Yuen Foong Khong of Oxford on this strategic thinking where he stated that there is a “long (and bipartisan) tradition in American strategic thinking: Successive administrations have emphasized that a vital interest of the United States is to prevent a hostile hegemon from dominating any of the major regions of the world.” i think that is certainly in play here.

[pgardn]

yet again, another ED UP take by GMO-devotee pfartin, G F Y

Expected reply.
Go on, Git...

[pgardn]

i get that and perhaps i should have added to that post what i added to another, which is that the efforts against russia are not simply motivated by a deep state but also serve the interests of both parties (especially as they adhere to the operating neoliberal policies which have been in place since Reagan). there was a really great article written by professor Yuen Foong Khong of Oxford on this strategic thinking where he stated that there is a “long (and bipartisan) tradition in American strategic thinking: Successive administrations have emphasized that a vital interest of the United States is to prevent a hostile hegemon from dominating any of the major regions of the world.” i think that is certainly in play here.

Off to work.

I will look that up. Thanks.
You need to participate in this forum more often if you have the time.

[baseline bum]

i'm simply saying that there are factions in washington that have invested into NATO and economic control of the ukraine as well as most of eastern europe. and the only press that will really call out our actions is the independent press. our mainstream media will do what they usually do and focus on the perfunctory elements.

NATO pisses me off since it's essentially assuring American taxpayers get to subsidize European social democracies at a heavy cost to them, since middle and lower income people don't get anything like the benefits Europeans get even though we're the rich country. So I loved it when Trump gave Merkel that bill for NATO protection. On the other hand, without us dominating the region I can't imagine those countries wouldn't be back at war constantly like they were before we stepped in. In the nuclear age that's a pretty scary thought. So us playing Santa Claus to Europe is probably the better option IMO.

[boutons_deux]

"American taxpayers get to subsidize European social democracies"

Not only NATO

Americans subsidize other countries' purchases of BigPharma's crap at a fraction of the prices that Americans pay.

[hater]

Agree with what poster rjp postd tbqh

I been saying this for years

But Id also like to add US has been working on dismantling the "new" Russia since probably 2010 or 11

They did go back on many WWIi agreements because they thought they had Russia on the ropes and just needed a few more power punches to turn it into a 3rd world subserviant hole

Thats how uncle sam likes their vassal states: poor, disorganized and helpless

They miscalculated greatly. Now Russia is there to stay for the foreseable future and so is Syria and Assad. Btw

Its just another grave miscalculation just like the Iraq one was

At some point we will start paying for the miscalculations of these few powerful murderers who call themselves american heroes and name airports, libraries and roads after themselves. sadly

[hater]

Lets see if Trump is stupid enough to make another miscalculation either in North Korea/China or Iran

China could easily bum rush 5 million chinese peasants armed with pick axes all the way to Seoul

And Iran can make Iraq look like a walk in the park

[TSA]

Susan Rice having another Benghazi moment

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/poli...nobody-n742486

[clambake]

fox said that susan rice talk is just a distraction.

[SpursforSix]

fox said that susan rice talk is just a distraction.

Yep. False flag. I'd keep an eye on Somalia and what happens over there the next week or so.

[TSA]

Lol, Don Lemon.

Translation: we are going to bury this

https://news.grabien.com/story-cnn-g...instructs-view