Have you realized just how awful Simmons numbers are?

[hater]

He shows up in the playoffs

He will get paid here or elsewhere

[raybies]

something to consider. During the season he played primarily off ball.Look at his usage from the season to the playoffs. It increased by like 5% and he performed a lot better. He needs the ball in his hands more.

Per 36 Minutes

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2015-16	26	SAS	NBA	SG	55	2	813	5.4	10.7	.504	0.8	2.1	.383	4.6	8.6	.533	3.1	4.1	.750	0.7	3.5	4.3	2.6	1.1	0.2	2.3	4.6	14.7
2016-17	27	SAS	NBA	SG	78	8	1392	4.6	10.9	.420	0.8	2.6	.294	3.8	8.2	.461	2.6	3.4	.750	0.5	3.6	4.1	3.3	1.2	0.6	2.0	3.8	12.5
Career			NBA		133	10	2205	4.9	10.8	.451	0.8	2.4	.322	4.1	8.4	.488	2.7	3.7	.750	0.6	3.6	4.2	3.0	1.2	0.5	2.1	4.1	13.3

Playoffs Per 36 Minutes

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2015-16	26	SAS	NBA	SG	3	0	26	5.5	13.8	.400	2.8	4.2	.667	2.8	9.7	.286	1.4	2.8	.500	4.2	1.4	5.5	2.8	2.8	0.0	1.4	5.5	15.2
2016-17	27	SAS	NBA	SG	15	4	306	7.3	16.0	.456	1.5	4.4	.351	5.8	11.6	.495	2.5	3.6	.677	1.1	2.2	3.3	3.4	1.1	0.2	1.3	3.5	18.6
Career			NBA		18	4	332	7.2	15.8	.452	1.6	4.3	.375	5.5	11.5	.481	2.4	3.6	.667	1.3	2.2	3.5	3.4	1.2	0.2	1.3	3.7	18.3

Notice how his 3% went up in the playoffs. That is huge considering the increased pressure. Imo the more involvement is equaled to the more engaged he was. But, the 18 ppg per 36 is good cause the games he actually played minutes he did put that up so it's not empty. With increased minutes and workload he could be a fringe elite role player in my estimation. Also his turnover rate actually went down with more usage.

I'm sorry but Danny made 10 per on a bargain contract. Simmons projects as a better all around player and to take the role as 6th man ala Ginobili. That's why they want him back. He plays really well against the team to beat and with more usage he becomes something else. If we can get him for the same price as danny it would be a bargain. Danny can't do anything to create his own shot. He can barely dribble and though Simmons really isn't much of a facilitator, he does well penetrating the defense off a pick and can finish near the rim. I really hope his price is going down though. Would love to have him for cheaper.

[Pocho La Pantera]

Who else is gonna sacrifice their body to get to the line? Not Green, Manu or Mills. San Antonio is a Simmons dependent team now, blame those three.

not sure if serious.

[spursmvp]

What's all this hate on simmons. He showed up against the dubs when no one else except manu did. That alone is worth the money.

[SAGirl]

something to consider. During the season he played primarily off ball.Look at his usage from the season to the playoffs. It increased by like 5% and he performed a lot better. He needs the ball in his hands more.

Per 36 Minutes

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2015-16	26	SAS	NBA	SG	55	2	813	5.4	10.7	.504	0.8	2.1	.383	4.6	8.6	.533	3.1	4.1	.750	0.7	3.5	4.3	2.6	1.1	0.2	2.3	4.6	14.7
2016-17	27	SAS	NBA	SG	78	8	1392	4.6	10.9	.420	0.8	2.6	.294	3.8	8.2	.461	2.6	3.4	.750	0.5	3.6	4.1	3.3	1.2	0.6	2.0	3.8	12.5
Career			NBA		133	10	2205	4.9	10.8	.451	0.8	2.4	.322	4.1	8.4	.488	2.7	3.7	.750	0.6	3.6	4.2	3.0	1.2	0.5	2.1	4.1	13.3

Playoffs Per 36 Minutes

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2015-16	26	SAS	NBA	SG	3	0	26	5.5	13.8	.400	2.8	4.2	.667	2.8	9.7	.286	1.4	2.8	.500	4.2	1.4	5.5	2.8	2.8	0.0	1.4	5.5	15.2
2016-17	27	SAS	NBA	SG	15	4	306	7.3	16.0	.456	1.5	4.4	.351	5.8	11.6	.495	2.5	3.6	.677	1.1	2.2	3.3	3.4	1.1	0.2	1.3	3.5	18.6
Career			NBA		18	4	332	7.2	15.8	.452	1.6	4.3	.375	5.5	11.5	.481	2.4	3.6	.667	1.3	2.2	3.5	3.4	1.2	0.2	1.3	3.7	18.3

Notice how his 3% went up in the playoffs. That is huge considering the increased pressure. Imo the more involvement is equaled to the more engaged he was. But, the 18 ppg per 36 is good cause the games he actually played minutes he did put that up so it's not empty. With increased minutes and workload he could be a fringe elite role player in my estimation. Also his turnover rate actually went down with more usage.

I'm sorry but Danny made 10 per on a bargain contract. Simmons projects as a better all around player and to take the role as 6th man ala Ginobili. That's why they want him back. He plays really well against the team to beat and with more usage he becomes something else. If we can get him for the same price as danny it would be a bargain. Danny can't do anything to create his own shot. He can barely dribble and though Simmons really isn't much of a facilitator, he does well penetrating the defense off a pick and can finish near the rim. I really hope his price is going down though. Would love to have him for cheaper.

If he was going to be a sixth man why did the Spurs give one of the better 6th man type contracts to Mills? I don't see it. I think he has a hot streak at the right time but it's doubtful that can be replicated bc he was pretty bad all year... Some guys have parlayed a few good playoff games into a big contract and then never are able to replicate that on the regular. Not saying don't bring him back, but not enough consistency to justify a bigger deal. The games he was that ball dominant the Spurs lost against GS showers anyways. His defense was also overrated in that series bc Dijon and Anderson were more disruptive, came up with more rebounds, steals and deflections, plus minus also favors them even with Dijon's abysmal shooting. He had one good game that everyone else shot poorly in. So did Anderson basically... Again not saying don't bring him back but a big deal will straight jacket the team. I wouldn't have paid Mills 12 mill either tbh. But 12:01...

[DAF86]

something to consider. During the season he played primarily off ball.Look at his usage from the season to the playoffs. It increased by like 5% and he performed a lot better. He needs the ball in his hands more.

Per 36 Minutes

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2015-16	26	SAS	NBA	SG	55	2	813	5.4	10.7	.504	0.8	2.1	.383	4.6	8.6	.533	3.1	4.1	.750	0.7	3.5	4.3	2.6	1.1	0.2	2.3	4.6	14.7
2016-17	27	SAS	NBA	SG	78	8	1392	4.6	10.9	.420	0.8	2.6	.294	3.8	8.2	.461	2.6	3.4	.750	0.5	3.6	4.1	3.3	1.2	0.6	2.0	3.8	12.5
Career			NBA		133	10	2205	4.9	10.8	.451	0.8	2.4	.322	4.1	8.4	.488	2.7	3.7	.750	0.6	3.6	4.2	3.0	1.2	0.5	2.1	4.1	13.3

Playoffs Per 36 Minutes

Season	Age	Tm	Lg	Pos	G	GS	MP	FG	FGA	FG%	3P	3PA	3P%	2P	2PA	2P%	FT	FTA	FT%	ORB	DRB	TRB	AST	STL	BLK	TOV	PF	PTS
2015-16	26	SAS	NBA	SG	3	0	26	5.5	13.8	.400	2.8	4.2	.667	2.8	9.7	.286	1.4	2.8	.500	4.2	1.4	5.5	2.8	2.8	0.0	1.4	5.5	15.2
2016-17	27	SAS	NBA	SG	15	4	306	7.3	16.0	.456	1.5	4.4	.351	5.8	11.6	.495	2.5	3.6	.677	1.1	2.2	3.3	3.4	1.1	0.2	1.3	3.5	18.6
Career			NBA		18	4	332	7.2	15.8	.452	1.6	4.3	.375	5.5	11.5	.481	2.4	3.6	.667	1.3	2.2	3.5	3.4	1.2	0.2	1.3	3.7	18.3

Notice how his 3% went up in the playoffs. That is huge considering the increased pressure. Imo the more involvement is equaled to the more engaged he was. But, the 18 ppg per 36 is good cause the games he actually played minutes he did put that up so it's not empty. With increased minutes and workload he could be a fringe elite role player in my estimation. Also his turnover rate actually went down with more usage.

I'm sorry but Danny made 10 per on a bargain contract. Simmons projects as a better all around player and to take the role as 6th man ala Ginobili. That's why they want him back. He plays really well against the team to beat and with more usage he becomes something else. If we can get him for the same price as danny it would be a bargain. Danny can't do anything to create his own shot. He can barely dribble and though Simmons really isn't much of a facilitator, he does well penetrating the defense off a pick and can finish near the rim. I really hope his price is going down though. Would love to have him for cheaper.

Nobody with a deep basketball understanding is expecting that, tbh.

What you are missing in all that reasoning is that Simmons, for all the good he supposedly did during the playoffs, was still a net negative player. So, even at his best, he wasn't able to play winning basketball. You know why that is? Because he sucks. He sucks big time.

[itzsoweezee]

I pretend my 10 million per year guy to at least not be a net negative while on the court, tbh. You know how everyone s on Danny Green? well, he's still more than 2 full points better than Simmons, and he's getting paid 10 millions per year. That's the least you can hope for from a 10 millions per year guy.

Danny Green's salary is based off of the old salary cap. Welcome to 2017.

[DAF86]

Danny Green's salary is based off of the old salary cap. Welcome to 2017.

Based on the old salary cap and the old Danny Green's production. Given Danny's current production he's probably worth 10 millions per year on this new salary cap. Simmons isn't even worth half of that with the old or new salary cap.

[raybies]

Nobody with a deep basketball understanding is expecting that, tbh.

What you are missing in all that reasoning is that Simmons, for all the good he supposedly did during the playoffs, was still a net negative player. So, even at his best he wasn't able to play winning basketball. You know why that is? Because he sucks. He sucks big time.

How can you be a net positive player playing the best team in basketball beating you by 20 points each time. C'mon man. What he accomplished against that defense was remarkable, especially considering he was the only one that could break it down. They were forcing him to shoot the midrange and he was hitting that too.

[raybies]

Based on the old salary cap and the old Danny Green's production. Given Danny's current production he's probably worth 10 millions per year on this new salary cap. Simmons isn't even worth half of that with the old or new salary cap.

Are you high?

[ernest787]

SAgirl calling out "fanboys" of players, while still getting upset if someone mentions the playoffs and doesn't say anything about fathead

And somehow posters still take her seriously

[raybies]

If he was going to be a sixth man why did the Spurs give one of the better 6th man type contracts to Mills? I don't see it. I think he has a hot streak at the right time but it's doubtful that can be replicated bc he was pretty bad all year... Some guys have parlayed a few good playoff games into a big contract and then never are able to replicate that on the regular. Not saying don't bring him back, but not enough consistency to justify a bigger deal. The games he was that ball dominant the Spurs lost against GS showers anyways. His defense was also overrated in that series bc Dijon and Anderson were more disruptive, came up with more rebounds, steals and deflections, plus minus also favors them even with Dijon's abysmal shooting. He had one good game that everyone else shot poorly in. So did Anderson basically... Again not saying don't bring him back but a big deal will straight jacket the team. I wouldn't have paid Mills 12 mill either tbh. But 12:01...

Mills is a loyalty contract. And because he could start for the team and he'll definitely be closing. But it's definitely not a 6th man contract. That would be more, a lot more. He made three per last contract so they gave him a raise they thought he deserved. Simmons at his age and experience is more likely 6th man potential and because his first two years are capped at 8.5 mill you can afford to give Patty that cause you'd be getting a deal on Simmons theoretically.

[Ice009]

I knew he was bad by my eye test but last night, arguing with another poster about Simmons, I got to look at his stats and it surprised me to see that his numbers are even worse than I imagined. Last season in 78 games he averaged:

6.2 ppg - 1.6 apg - 1.0 topg - 1.9 rpg - 42 FG% - 29 3P% - 50 TS% - 9.9 PER - -2.8 OPM - 0.9 DPM - -1.9 PM - 0.0 VORP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...simmojo02.html

Is this the guy some of you are desperate to bring back? Is this the guy worth 10 million per year? Sorry sons but that , tbh.

Look, I don't want to overpay him and sign him for too long. I think he still needs to build upon what he showed in the playoffs and be more consistent to really earn that big paycheck, but you are also a bit of a hater of his.

[MaNu4Tres]

The most I'd offer Simmons is 3 yr 27 mil dollar deal w/ a team option for 3rd yr.

People are just looking at stats, Simmons was a better than average perimeter defender.

Him being able to defend well on the perimeter is probably the most underrated aspect of his game that no one talks about. He can defend three positions well, maybe 4 when teams go small (this is invaluable in todays NBA).

In order to beat HOU and GS Spurs will need more versatile perimeter defenders than Kawhi and Danny. Spurs need 3-4 good to great perimeter defenders if they want a real shot at the best teams in the league and SImmons gives them a third guy. I'm hoping Gay is the 4th if his health and work ethic hold up.

[DAF86]

How can you be a net positive player playing the best team in basketball beating you by 20 points each time. C'mon man. What he accomplished against that defense was remarkable, especially considering he was the only one that could break it down. They were forcing him to shoot the midrange and he was hitting that too.

When I say "net negative/positive" I'm talking about "Box Plus/minus" (a box score estimate of the points per 100 possessions a player contributed above a league-average player, translated to an average team). Manu and Green were able to be positives (not only that, above 2 pts positives) on this stat despite playing without Kawhi and vs the all-mighty Warriors. Simmons didn't post positive numbers in this stat in the playoffs, where he supposedly played so great. He didn't post positive numbers on this stat in the regular season either. He didn't post positive numbers on this stat the previous season either. You know why that is? Because he is a below average player. A below average player that tricks casual fans with his dunks and blocks and effort, but a below average player nontheless.

[Hoops Czar]

Simmons is a scub but using DPM and PM to discredit someone is bush league stat analysis.

[DAF86]

Simmons is a scub but using DPM and PM to discredit someone is bush league stat analysis.

I'm using all the stats available, tbh.

[DAF86]

The most I'd offer Simmons is 3 yr 27 mil dollar deal w/ a team option for 3rd yr.

People are just looking at stats, Simmons was a better than average perimeter defender.

Him being able to defend well on the perimeter is probably the most underrated aspect of his game that no one talks about. He can defend three positions well, maybe 4 when teams go small (this is invaluable in todays NBA).

In order to beat HOU and GS Spurs will need more versatile perimeter defenders than Kawhi and Danny. Spurs need 3-4 good to great perimeter defenders if they want a real shot at the best teams in the league and SImmons gives them a third guy. I'm hoping Gay is the 4th if his health and work ethic hold up.

I agree, that still isn't worth 9 millions per year on a three year contract.

[MaNu4Tres]

Some fans are still stuck in 1990. They have absolutely zero understanding of defensive versatility on the perimeter and how valuable that is in 2017.

[DAF86]

Are you high?

No, I just use more than an emotional " but he stepped up in the playoffs " reasoning when analyzing a player's worth.

[raybies]

The most I'd offer Simmons is 3 yr 27 mil dollar deal w/ a team option for 3rd yr.

People are just looking at stats, Simmons was a better than average perimeter defender.

Him being able to defend well on the perimeter is probably the most underrated aspect of his game that no one talks about. He can defend three positions well, maybe 4 when teams go small (this is invaluable in todays NBA).

In order to beat HOU and GS Spurs will need more versatile perimeter defenders than Kawhi and Danny. Spurs need 3-4 good to great perimeter defenders if they want a real shot at the best teams in the league and SImmons gives them a third guy. I'm hoping Gay is the 4th if his health and work ethic hold up.

He's also another player that you can't hide a bad defender on like you can with Danny...

two way player tbh those are hard to find

[Chinook]

Simmons' best attribute is that he could defend Draymond better than Danny can. His actual defense against guys his size isn't anything to write home about.

[DAF86]

Some fans are still stuck in 1990. They have absolutely zero understanding of defensive versatility on the perimeter and how valuable that is in 2017.

Some fans are still stuck in 1990. They have absolutely zero understanding of how much of liabilities untalented players that need the ball in their hands are in 2017.

[SAGirl]

Mills is a loyalty contract. And because he could start for the team and he'll definitely be closing. But it's definitely not a 6th man contract. That would be more, a lot more. He made three per last contract so they gave him a raise they thought he deserved. Simmons at his age and experience is more likely 6th man potential and because his first two years are capped at 8.5 mill you can afford to give Patty that cause you'd be getting a deal on Simmons theoretically.

I think you want to pay him for potential and he's 28. You also want to pay him as if he already wa what you think he can be. The point was that him being that ball dominant = Simmons at his best = didn't translate to wins. Didn't play well when he started games either.

If he had been that guy that you think he can be the entire season that's different but in reality you are projecting a lot based on a few good games.

[raybies]

Simmons is a scub but using DPM and PM to discredit someone is bush league stat analysis.

when he said Danny was a net positive and Simmons wasn't i figured the stat was bogus.