Have you realized just how awful Simmons numbers are?

[DAF86]

Ill give you this, Manu kicks his ass in the is from Argentina category.

I knew folks were going to go this route.

Dude, Manu has nothing to do with this. Do you seriously think that if Manu comes back it will be to ride the doghouse? Of course not. I'm not worried about Manu. I'm worried about the Spurs overcomitting to a guy that isn't very good and could cost us in a future off-season. That is all, tbh.

[DAF86]

I clearly meant defensively.

Yeah well, offensive liabilties are as bad, if not worst, than defensive liabilities in today's NBA, tbh.

[TheGreatYacht]

Simmons at 8.5M/yr is an absolute steal anyone arguing otherwise is clueless or is a fanboy of someone he'll take minutes from

[MannyIsGod]

I knew folks were going to go this route.

Dude, Manu has nothing to do with this. Do you seriously think that if Manu comes back it will be to ride the doghouse? Of course not. I'm not worried about Manu. I'm worried about the Spurs overcomitting to a guy that isn't very good and could cost us in a future off-season. That is all, tbh.

You yourself brought Manu into the argument. As I said, I'd like them both back. LOL @ Manu for the min tho. I'll believev that when I see it.

[rastaspur]

It has been rumored they offered him 9 million a year I think. Would prefer an offer of 6 to 8 million a year.
Not sure how many years.

If he can't fetch more from someone else than 9 million a year, a 3 year 27 mil with a team option for year 3 is not a bad deal imo

At 7 million a year I would call that a good deal in today's current nba landscape.

[SAGirl]

You yourself brought Manu into the argument. As I said, I'd like them both back. LOL @ Manu for the min tho. I'll believev that when I see it.

I don't think that either fwiw...

[DAF86]

Simmons at 8.5M/yr is an absolute steal anyone arguing otherwise is clueless or is a fanboy of someone he'll take minutes from

If both guys sign with the Spurs, I will be rooting for Simmons to get more minutes and protagonism than Manu, because it would mean that he finally outplayed Manu and the Spurs could reach another gear. The Spurs aren't going anywhere if 40 yo Manu still has to be the 6th man of the team, tbh. Unfortunately, I don't think Simmons is capable of that.

[mookie2001]

Yeah who is Simmons trying to fool with those dunks and blocks lol

[Hoops Czar]

Simmons shot better than both, from 2 and from 3. Got to the line more. Was a bit worse on the boards. Pretty close to A:T as Manu which is allegedly his best aspect now. Handily outscored both. So yeah, stats.

Danny Green was bad per par but let's not say Simmons was necessarily better than Ginobili.

Manu Ginobili
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...01/on-off/2017

The Spurs were a better defensive team with Ginobili on the court and he didn't make the offense worse.

Jonathon Simmons
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...02/on-off/2017

The Spurs were a worst defensive team with Simmons on the court and even worse offensively by a substantial margin but yeah, he got his number.

[DAF86]

You yourself brought Manu into the argument. As I said, I'd like them both back. LOL @ Manu for the min tho. I'll believev that when I see it.

No, I didn't. The only reason I memtioned Manu is because folks were already talking about him, the same with Danny. But wait, Danny isn't Argentinian so it doesn't fit the idea of what you think are my motives for making this thread.

[TD 21]

Yeah well, offensive liabilties are as bad, if not worst, than defensive liabilities in today's NBA, tbh.

Playoffs are a small sample size, but also the most important portion. If what he did in them is sustainable, he won't be an offensive liability. As a non superstar, it comes down to context though and for him the ideal context is primarily on ball, with shooters surrounding him.

You can talk about the 2 erratic regular seasons that preceded that, but despite his relatively advanced age, those were his first 2 NBA seasons.

[DAF86]

I don't think that either fwiw...

I don't give a how much Manu makes for a year as long as he doesn't cost the Spur any possible good signing.

[MannyIsGod]

If both guys sign with the Spurs, I will be rooting for Simmons to get more minutes and protagonism than Manu, because it would mean that he finally outplayed Manu and the Spurs could reach another gear. The Spurs aren't going anywhere if 40 yo Manu still has to be the 6th man of the team, tbh. Unfortunately, I don't think Simmons is capable of that.

I mean the first part of your post is obvious. We'll see about the last part.

[ducks]

are they worse then trumps? but then he wiped the floor with her ass

[tonight...you]

are they worse then trumps? but then he wiped the floor with her ass

You keep giving Thread life baby. Play into his game...

[DAF86]

You keep giving Thread life baby. Play into his game...

Are you implying this is a troll thread?

I made this thread and gave facts and an honest opinion. 5 pages later the thread is composed 99% of posts arguing one way or another but staying on topic and keeping it civil (for ST standards). I don't know how can anyone see this as a troll thread.

[r0drig0lac]

What's all this hate on simmons. He showed up against the dubs when no one else except manu did. That alone is worth the money.

spurstalk

[phxspurfan]

The Spurs don't need guys for the regular season -- they'll be fine. They need players who match up with Golden State and Simmons does that.

I think that's an important factor to consider. The league is rapidly devolving into a few super teams and a bunch of super crappy teams we can win against either way. So to really be a contender we need favorable (or at least neutral) matchups against the best teams like GS and CLE. That means young, athletic wings.

Screw what he does against the bucks on a Tuesday night in February.

[tonight...you]

Are you implying this is a troll thread?

I made this thread and gave facts and an honest opinion. 5 pages later the thread is composed 99% of posts arguing one way or another but staying on topic and keeping it civil (for ST standards). I don't know how can anyone see this as a troll thread.

No bud, ducks was quoting Thread.

[SAGirl]

I don't give a how much Manu makes for a year as long as he doesn't cost the Spur any possible good signing.

He's not going to cost the Spurs anything since the Spurs already sort of made up their minds and can't add anyone of signficance. Reupping their own guys is all they can do. I never even brought up that old argument... but I suppose you are defensive bc undoubtedly someone else will bring it up. For a one season contract that Spurs stood pat it doesn't matter.

In a two year deal Simmons probably is a good deal too... I think the holdup is he wants more years ... which is risky. As you said, he hasn't been very good in general and it's a risky proposition the longer that deal is. Ppl are "projecting" what they think he can become based on the eye test, and he's already pretty much as good as he's going to be. I'd argue he can be more consistent and that by itself will allow him to be better, but even that is assuming and assuming with a positive eye test. Imagine if we were talking about assuming someone can shoot well bc he shot well for 6 games, but poorly for another 79 games.

Anyways, I think you have some valid points. A 2 year contract is not too risky and he could be good value if such consistency to his better games is reached. Longer than that, risk starts to get thwarted against Simms favor which is why I doubt they do match on a poison pill contract. It's just really unlikely he gets that at this point.

[JR3]

I only care about playoff stats... especially with Aldridge disappearing in the playoffs...

[DAF86]

He's not going to cost the Spurs anything since the Spurs already sort of made up their minds and can't add anyone of signficance. Reupping their own guys is all they can do. I never even brought up that old argument... but I suppose you are defensive bc undoubtedly someone else will bring it up. or a one season contract that Spurs stood pat it doesn't matter.

In a two year deal Simmons probably is a good deal too... I think the holdup is he wants more years ... which is risky. As you said, he hasn't been very good in general and it's a risky proposition the longer that deal is. Ppl are "projecting" what they think he can become based on the eye test, and he's already pretty much as good as he's going to be. I'd argue he can be more consistent and that by itself will allow him to be better, but even that is assuming and assuming with a positive eye test. Imagine if we were talking about assuming someone can shoot well bc he shot well for 6 games, but poorly for another 79 games.

Anyways, I think you have some valid points. A 2 year contract is not too risky and he could be good value if such consistency to his better games is reached. Longer than that, risk starts to get thwarted against Simms favor which is why I doubt they do match on a poison pill contract. It's just really unlikely he gets that at this point.

I'm not defensive about Manu, I'm just saying that as long as Manu doesn't handicap the Spurs chances of signing a significant piece I don't care what he gets. So, if the Spurs make all their moves and then decide to bring back Manu for one last year, I don't care if they pay him the minimum or 7 millions per year since I don't have to pay him and that contract wouldn't make a difference in the cap space of the next offseason.

[south side spur]

You're wasting your time with these metrics bro. Fanboys don't care. If numbers don't support their player it's all about the eye test. Metrics can only validate their player it's pretty simple.

[Spurtacular]

I knew he was bad by my eye test but last night, arguing with another poster about Simmons, I got to look at his stats and it surprised me to see that his numbers are even worse than I imagined. Last season in 78 games he averaged:

6.2 ppg - 1.6 apg - 1.0 topg - 1.9 rpg - 42 FG% - 29 3P% - 50 TS% - 9.9 PER - -2.8 OPM - 0.9 DPM - -1.9 PM - 0.0 VORP

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...simmojo02.html

Is this the guy some of you are desperate to bring back? Is this the guy worth 10 million per year? Sorry sons but that , tbh.

I thought he was showing promise on offense. What kills me is that he plays defense in the half court set like a scared possum. He never knows the rotations, and he's finnicky as as his guy is constantly getting open with ease as he twitches.

[SAGirl]

You're wasting your time with these metrics bro. Fanboys don't care. If numbers don't support their player it's all about the eye test. Metrics can only validate their player it's pretty simple.

that is true in these forums anyway. some guys do get what he's saying but don't care.
I think he has a point for sure. For the ones who don't want to see it...