Dejounte Murray Highlights

[SAGirl]

In case anyone is wondering, Murray continues to lead the team in many advanced stats, though LMA has passed him up in PER due to usage and VORP due to minutes played. Two games is a more stable sample size, but we'll need five or six before we have a better sense of how he's actually playing. Probably by the end of next week.

It’s still a small sample size but when was the last time Tony led the team in any advanced stats? I am not aiming to on Tony but it’s been a long time. Dijon is 21, Tony is 35 or 36? Coming back from a bad injury, has been brittle the past few postseasons etc and has value only when he’s scoring frankly. It’s actually great that Dijon has value even when he’s not scoring a lot. If he continues to play well, he doesn’t deserve to be benched.

[cd021]

Let us say DJ plays well. Let's also assume Tony returns to a passable form. What do they do both this season and next? Could they leave DJ the starter, and pair Tony on the bench with Patty if Manu retires? And what to do if he doesn't? I doubt they force Tony to retire if he doesn't want to. I'm sure he'll have the Manu "decision" option, even for a while.

Even if Parker is slightly better if DJ continues to develop they may make a switch so not to re his development and continue his acclimation with the starters.

If Gay returns to form, opts out, and signs somewhere else, I wonder if we'd really have a bench of Parker, Patty and Manu at the 1-3 next year? Or is Manu a lock to retire, and Parker effectively his replacement if he loses the starting job. Pop paired Patty and tony quite a lot last year as I recall.

I doubt that Pop would keep Murray starting, He could be moved into the bench rotation with Mills and Manu with Gay and Joff. As for next season; I think no matter what PATFO brings Parker back next season, the Spurs are going to be over the cap anyway so I could see a 1 year $10 million dollar deal with the understanding that that is Parker's final season.

If Manu retires next year, I assume that Murray would take his spot in the rotation and Green and Murray would split the SG minutes more evenly (24/24) with Murray getting additional minutes at PG when Parker sits. The final year of Murray's rookie scale deal would be when I think he finally start

One scenario could be that Murray plays well enough this season to make Mills expendable. I don't know if the Spurs would shop him when Parker may play only one more season and Mills would have two more seasons left after that, in which he would then be Murray's back up.

[cd021]

The spacing for Kawhi gets complicated so we’ll just have to see how he does.

I don't know about that. Gasol is a very good 3pt shooter as well as Green and Kawhi (when he doesn't have the ball and even when he does) Aldridge seems to have returned to form from midrange and becoming more aggressive from beyond the arc. I think that the starting lineup with Kawhi back and Murray in place of Mills has more than enough spacing. The spacing has been fine so far with Anderson in place of Kawhi and Kawhi is one of the better shooters in the league.

[BillMc]

As for Rudy Gay, man, I think he can be great for the Spurs, especially when Kawhi comes back. I really like what I'm seeing from him so far. I hope he reaches his potential here. I also wouldn't want him opting out and bolting if he does as well as I believe he can.

The best hope of keeping Rudy are: 1) PATFO seldom lose players they really want to keep. 2) They'll be over the cap and motivated to sign their own and 3) Rudy has spent most his career on lousy, dysfunctional teams. Being on the Spurs must seem like a joy ride. If he can handle not being a starter, he'll stay (though he may still opt out for a better deal)

[DAF86]

No matter how you slice it, if Murray keeps playing well, benching him for a 36 year old Tony makes no sense at all.

[SAGirl]

I don't know about that. Gasol is a very good 3pt shooter as well as Green and Kawhi (when he doesn't have the ball and even when he does) Aldridge seems to have returned to form from midrange and becoming more aggressive from beyond the arc. I think that the starting lineup with Kawhi back and Murray in place of Mills has more than enough spacing. The spacing has been fine so far with Anderson in place of Kawhi and Kawhi is one of the better shooters in the league.

But Murray has the ball for the most part when the bigs don't have it. When the bigs have it, Dijon is parked underneath the basket as if he was a big bc he can't shoot. They might be fine, I don't know but Murray certainly won't get the ball as much. We will just have to see. He can be an improving shooter.

[cd021]

But Murray has the ball for the most part when the bigs don't have it. When the bigs have it, Dijon is parked underneath the basket as if he was a big bc he can't shoot. They might be fine, I don't know but Murray certainly won't get the ball as much. We will just have to see. He can be an improving shooter.

He did shot the ball well in the mid range and seemed confident taking them, so that's encouraging. While the Rockets weren't a juggernaut last season in the playoffs, defensively, he showed in game 3 ( I think) that he can be effective without the ball and when opposing teams ignore him. They left him alone in the right corner and he ended up getting 3 easy layups by attacking close outs or simply driving into open space. Parker used to do this a lot too when teams would sag off when he didn't have the ball in his hand.

[SAGirl]

He did shot the ball well in the mid range and seemed confident taking them, so that's encouraging. While the Rockets weren't a juggernaut last season in the playoffs, defensively, he showed in game 3 ( I think) that he can be effective without the ball and when opposing teams ignore him. They left him alone in the right corner and he ended up getting 3 easy layups by attacking close outs or simply driving into open space. Parker used to do this a lot too when teams would sag off when he didn't have the ball in his hand.

It will require good passing from Kawhi but it could work. Extremely small sample and most playoff minutes for him came without Kawhi. They could be fine as I said, or it could limit him at this stage. Murray is never lacking in confidence so that's encouraging.

[cd021]

The best hope of keeping Rudy are: 1) PATFO seldom lose players they really want to keep. 2) They'll be over the cap and motivated to sign their own and 3) Rudy has spent most his career on lousy, dysfunctional teams. Being on the Spurs must seem like a joy ride. If he can handle not being a starter, he'll stay (though he may still opt out for a better deal)

IIRC if he were to opt out, the most the Spurs could pay him is 105% of his current salary which would be exactly the same number as he would be making if he were to opt in.

I think he'll have a good season and despite that, he won't get a much better offer because the teams that will have cap space (not very many of them) are likely bad teams which probably wouldn't make sense for either side. I think he'll opt in.

[TD 21]

I doubt that Pop would keep Murray starting, He could be moved into the bench rotation with Mills and Manu with Gay and Joff. As for next season; I think no matter what PATFO brings Parker back next season, the Spurs are going to be over the cap anyway so I could see a 1 year $10 million dollar deal with the understanding that that is Parker's final season.

If Manu retires next year, I assume that Murray would take his spot in the rotation and Green and Murray would split the SG minutes more evenly (24/24) with Murray getting additional minutes at PG when Parker sits. The final year of Murray's rookie scale deal would be when I think he finally start

One scenario could be that Murray plays well enough this season to make Mills expendable. I don't know if the Spurs would shop him when Parker may play only one more season and Mills would have two more seasons left after that, in which he would then be Murray's back up.

If injury or poor play by Murray or Anderson doesn't sort it out organically, it's going to get awkward when Parker returns. He has to start, not out of respect or anything beyond the rotation making sense because Mills-Parker-Ginobili doesn't.

Unless and maybe even if Parker looks even worse than he's mostly looked in recent seasons, I doubt they'll try to push him out the door anytime soon, especially with Ginobili probably playing his final season. Even if, at some point in the next year, it's obvious that Murray is clearly better, as you said and I've said countless times, he can take Ginobili's rotation spot, with the non blowout closing minutes at PG up for grabs as well.

Think Forbes would have to play beyond well to even make them consider trading Mills. Most likely, they sort out the back court logjam by allowing Forbes to go elsewhere for greater opportunity and Ginobili retiring.

[Chinook]

IIRC if he were to opt out, the most the Spurs could pay him is 105% of his current salary which would be exactly the same number as he would be making if he were to opt in.

I think he'll have a good season and despite that, he won't get a much better offer because the teams that will have cap space (not very many of them) are likely bad teams which probably wouldn't make sense for either side. I think he'll opt in.

The Spurs could pay Rudy up to 120 percent of his current salary, so like $10.1 Million as the starting salary. A $20.6M/2 could make sense on both sides. I'd caution people against worry about re-signing players, though. I remember when people were trying to figure out how the team was going to re-sign: Roger Mason; Drew Gooden; Tyrus Thomas (who didn't even play for the team). All of those guys looked like Spurs for life for short bursts. I obviously hope Rudy makes it a tough decision, but there's way too much up in the air still.

[raybies]

The Spurs could pay Rudy up to 120 percent of his current salary, so like $10.1 Million as the starting salary. A $20.6M/2 could make sense on both sides. I'd caution people against worry about re-signing players, though. I remember when people were trying to figure out how the team was going to re-sign: Roger Mason; Drew Gooden; Tyrus Thomas (who didn't even play for the team). All of those guys looked like Spurs for life for short bursts. I obviously hope Rudy makes it a tough decision, but there's way too much up in the air still.

Great points and you're right when you say these things have a way of working themselves out. Very curious to see how though.

[tonight...you]

Great points and you're right when you say these things have a way of working themselves out. Very curious to see how though.

Rudy's not leaving this team. Barring a total collapse, which I don't see happening- Rudy is here to stay. I don't even worry about money. Think he's going to come here- to win, just to leave for a few bucks afterwards?
This man wants to be where he feels is right and he's useful and they win.

Way far cry to what he's been dealing with for years and something he's not going to run out on for a few more bucks when he's made plenty already.

JMO, of course.

[SAGirl]

Rudy's not leaving this team. Barring a total collapse, which I don't see happening- Rudy is here to stay. I don't even worry about money. Think he's going to come here- to win, just to leave for a few bucks afterwards?
This man wants to be where he feels is right and he's useful and they win.

Way far cry to what he's been dealing with for years and something he's not going to run out on for a few more bucks when he's made plenty already.

JMO, of course.

Yea.. I totally get your point, but I don't take any of these future FA for granted. Except Danny, he's a good one.
just saying we don't know what it will take. For example, Pau wanted to stay but he got a HEFTY contract considering age, production and the state of the C position in the league.
Patty was resigned but he got PAID.
A couple of seasons ago, DWorst wanted to elope for a winning situation.
These veterans sometimes come at a discount but they want to bandwagon to the best situation.
Lee obviously opted out for reasons unknown. He was one of the better players in the team last season. He was about 4th or 5th in winshares or something of that nature. He played well (and I wasn't even in his bandwagon, but due must be paid, he was a very good big to have).... opted out who knows why.. even when he was injured, so it was a risk to him financially.
Jsimms? I know you aren't a fan and he can be a polemic creating player, but he played well in the playoffs when Pop needed him to, and he has had a good start to this season in a very reasonable contract. He simply left bc he wanted a better situation for himself minutes wise and opportunities to grow his game further.
Any number of things can make someone go. For a younger player, a bigger paycheck elsewhere is enough, maybe the opportunity for playing time...
I don't worry about the roster so much, but can't say I have liked some contracts the Spurs handed out. The team is winning though and I am not going to about it while things are going well... Just know that I wouldn't take anyone for granted.

If the team does well however, it does increase chances of ppl staying. Losing or going home early does sour the taste a lot on guys. (heh! Lamarcus himself wanted to get traded after his humiliation in the playoffs).

P.S. who could forget Dedmon? Starting player for the Spurs falling out of favor in the playoffs completely. One just knew he was going to sign somewhere else... etc.

[tonight...you]

Yea.. I totally get your point, but I don't take any of these future FA for granted. Except Danny, he's a good one.
just saying we don't know what it will take. For example, Pau wanted to stay but he got a HEFTY contract considering age, production and the state of the C position in the league.
Patty was resigned but he got PAID.
A couple of seasons ago, DWorst wanted to elope for a winning situation.
These veterans sometimes come at a discount but they want to bandwagon to the best situation.
Lee obviously opted out for reasons unknown. He was one of the better players in the team last season. He was about 4th or 5th in winshares or something of that nature. He played well (and I wasn't even in his bandwagon, but due must be paid, he was a very good big to have).... opted out who knows why.. even when he was injured, so it was a risk to him financially.
Jsimms? I know you aren't a fan and he can be a polemic creating player, but he played well in the playoffs when Pop needed him to, and he has had a good start to this season in a very reasonable contract. He simply left bc he wanted a better situation for himself minutes wise and opportunities to grow his game further.
Any number of things can make someone go. For a younger player, a bigger paycheck elsewhere is enough, maybe the opportunity for playing time...
I don't worry about the roster so much, but can't say I have liked some contracts the Spurs handed out. The team is winning though and I am not going to about it while things are going well... Just know that I wouldn't take anyone for granted.

If the team does well however, it does increase chances of ppl staying. Losing or going home early does sour the taste a lot on guys. (heh! Lamarcus himself wanted to get traded after his humiliation in the playoffs).

P.S. who could forget Dedmon? Starting player for the Spurs falling out of favor in the playoffs completely. One just knew he was going to sign somewhere else... etc.

No arguments. Although I will say that there shouldn't have been the need to rehash what happened since every situation is it's own life happening in it's own real-time, you dig? We can try to attach history, but now we're dealing with individuals and their own individual histories running as they go. David West is the closest historical example, (giving up good money to join a winner) but this is different. Rudy could easily be a starter and a big-time contributor, given certain cir stances, but West was already a has-been and many times a detriment on the floor.
Rudy is a very interesting case. He's in a sweet-spot in his life where he's made a ton of money already and, while not Old- frustrated with his career to the Nth degree. His rhetoric bears his mindset of his situation and his at ude towards it.

As long as this team does what it can do and that means a good season in a cray talented West and a good run in the playoffs without significant drama and he feels like he's an integral part of the team:
He ain't leaving. I firmly believe this.

I am the 1st to say that I call no guarantees though.
Always have to have an out...

[SAGirl]

I am the 1st to say that I call no guarantees though.
Always have to have an out...

Specially here, where ppl want to pin you down like this is an election or life or death situation.... I don't care so much about keeping score as I do about exchanging opinions.
I tend to agree with you that he's more likely to re-sign than not and that is all one can ask for all things considered.
Postseason play determines a lot. I am not entirely 100% set on the fact the Spurs won't try to trade ppl away next summer tbh. But they failed this summer and may fail again next summer, so re-sing Rudy might be the best they can do (and Danny). AFter that, everyone else is pretty much on their own to get their own offers.

[tonight...you]

Specially here, where ppl want to pin you down like this is an election or life or death situation.... I don't care so much about keeping score as I do about exchanging opinions.
I tend to agree with you that he's more likely to re-sign than not and that is all one can ask for all things considered.
Postseason play determines a lot. I am not entirely 100% set on the fact the Spurs won't try to trade ppl away next summer tbh. But they failed this summer and may fail again next summer, so re-sing Rudy might be the best they can do (and Danny). AFter that, everyone else is pretty much on their own to get their own offers.

We'll see how things go as they come across our bow, as they say.
Actually, I don't think anybody says that... Hmmm.

[Seventyniner]

I don't care so much about keeping score as I do about exchanging opinions.

Puts you in an unfortunate minority tbh.

[BackHome]

Man I think Rudy will be looked at the biggest free agent signing this summer. He is playing some great ball and really fits in with this team I love watching him and Manu play together it’s crazy how Mnau sets him up and how easy he finishes the play. We finally got a legit third offensive threat. Kawhi , LMA, and now Rudy

[cd021]

If injury or poor play by Murray or Anderson doesn't sort it out organically, it's going to get awkward when Parker returns. He has to start, not out of respect or anything beyond the rotation making sense because Mills-Parker-Ginobili doesn't.

Agreed; Parker has to start either way, if nothing else because it's an odd fit with the Parker-Mills-Manu trio off the bench. I think Anderson has proved himself as a top 10 rotation player though he may end up being the odd man out still. I expect Murray to continue to play well-hopefully which would probably lead to the possibilities.

1. Pop eventually phases Murray out of the rotation save for injures to Parker or Mills, blowouts and occasional second quarter minutes.

2. Pop starts Parker and splits the backup PG duties between Mills and Murray (like he did in 14-15 with Mills and Cojo, though he eventually went with Mills late in the season and the playoffs)

3. Pop starts Parker and slides Murray into the bench rotation with Mills, Manu, Gay and Joff.

Unless and maybe even if Parker looks even worse than he's mostly looked in recent seasons, I doubt they'll try to push him out the door anytime soon, especially with Ginobili probably playing his final season. Even if, at some point in the next year, it's obvious that Murray is clearly better, as you said and I've said countless times, he can take Ginobili's rotation spot, with the non blowout closing minutes at PG up for grabs as well.

Agreed. I just don't see them forcing Parker out. He want's to play another three years but that is unrealistic and I think him and PATFO come to a mutual agreement that next season if the final year. It could get weird if Manu doesn't retire and Murray is stuck playing like 15 minutes per game next season, though.

Think Forbes would have to play beyond well to even make them consider trading Mills. Most likely, they sort out the back court logjam by allowing Forbes to go elsewhere for greater opportunity and Ginobili retiring.

The biggest issue with trading Mills is PG is the deepest position in the league and 3 years, $36 million is a lot for a player that maxes out as above average bench point guard. Besides that, Forbes as the 3rd PG is a definite question mark. Forbes has only played 300 minutes in 39 games over two seasons and only shot 31.5% from 3. While I think he better than I initially gave him credit, I don't see it with him in the NBA.


That being said, the Spurs are going to be over the cap and I highly doubt that another team is going to make him an offer ( I think the same can be said for Anderson as an RFA) I could see the Spurs offering him a cheap two or three year deal just to see if he can ever turn into something.

[TD 21]

Agreed; Parker has to start either way, if nothing else because it's an odd fit with the Parker-Mills-Manu trio off the bench. I think Anderson has proved himself as a top 10 rotation player though he may end up being the odd man out still. I expect Murray to continue to play well-hopefully which would probably lead to the possibilities.

1. Pop eventually phases Murray out of the rotation save for injures to Parker or Mills, blowouts and occasional second quarter minutes.

2. Pop starts Parker and splits the backup PG duties between Mills and Murray (like he did in 14-15 with Mills and Cojo, though he eventually went with Mills late in the season and the playoffs)

3. Pop starts Parker and slides Murray into the bench rotation with Mills, Manu, Gay and Joff.




Agreed. I just don't see them forcing Parker out. He want's to play another three years but that is unrealistic and I think him and PATFO come to a mutual agreement that next season if the final year. It could get weird if Manu doesn't retire and Murray is stuck playing like 15 minutes per game next season, though.



The biggest issue with trading Mills is PG is the deepest position in the league and 3 years, $36 million is a lot for a player that maxes out as above average bench point guard. Besides that, Forbes as the 3rd PG is a definite question mark. Forbes has only played 300 minutes in 39 games over two seasons and only shot 31.5% from 3. While I think he better than I initially gave him credit, I don't see it with him in the NBA.


That being said, the Spurs are going to be over the cap and I highly doubt that another team is going to make him an offer ( I think the same can be said for Anderson as an RFA) I could see the Spurs offering him a cheap two or three year deal just to see if he can ever turn into something.

Joseph is a good example. Murray could drastically outplay Anderson and force their hand, but he'll probably mostly be out of the rotation, with Pop looking for any excuse to play him.

Maybe if it's to the point where Parker looks beyond finished and they can rationalize it that they think too much of him to have him embarrass himself. But it was one thing to have this conversation with Horry, Bowen, Finley, Bonner, etc., it'll be another to do it with Parker.

True. Think Mills' reputation as a good teammate is so strong that they could probably salary dump him, but it's not a given.

Disagree. A team like Raptors, for example, who has almost no flexibility and a need for a Forbes type, would make a lot of sense. Would have to believe someone takes a shot and give him a (Seth) Curry or Daniels type deal.

[dabom]

Joseph is a good example. Murray could drastically outplay Anderson and force their hand, but he'll probably mostly be out of the rotation, with Pop looking for any excuse to play him.

Maybe if it's to the point where Parker looks beyond finished and they can rationalize it that they think too much of him to have him embarrass himself. But it was one thing to have this conversation with Horry, Bowen, Finley, Bonner, etc., it'll be another to do it with Parker.

True. Think Mills' reputation as a good teammate is so strong that they could probably salary dump him, but it's not a given.

Disagree. A team like Raptors, for example, who has almost no flexibility and a need for a Forbes type, would make a lot of sense. Would have to believe someone takes a shot and give him a (Seth) Curry or Daniels type deal.

Parker is not gonna get starter minutes. DM will take that starting spot like Kawhi did his. The team will play better with DM and PM as our PGs. DM is not an effective SG. Putting him there will not make him a better player or will help the Spurs win.

[TD 21]

Parker is not gonna get starter minutes. DM will take that starting spot like Kawhi did his. The team will play better with DM and PM as our PGs. DM is not an effective SG. Putting him there will not make him a better player or will help the Spurs win.

Not minutes typically associated with a starter, but Parker will probably average in the range of 20-24 mpg.

Whether when Parker returns (taking Anderson's rotation spot) or next season, if Ginobili retires, Murray will effectively play his role: PG on offense, SG on defense.

[dabom]

Not minutes typically associated with a starter, but Parker will probably average in the range of 20-24 mpg.

Whether when Parker returns (taking Anderson's rotation spot) or next season, if Ginobili retires, Murray will effectively play his role: PG on offense, SG on defense.

I'm arguing DM will be a starter in front of Parker.

[BatManu20]