Thing I learned this season

[ElNono]

Do we blame C's for Hayward missing a season? We didnt blame GSW when Curry couldn't play more tan 40 games a season.

Players get injured all time. How would we blame a team for that?

Quote where anybody, me, anybody in this thread blamed the team for his injury? You're dense dude. There's nothing there.

Really? "Betting on Leonard as the franchise has backfired mightily"

Really. If you actually read the whole thing you would understand that has nothing to do with PATFO or Kawhi. They bet on it for stability reasons, to have an ordered transition from TD to him, and it's obviously very clear that 'stable' plan didn't work out.

That gamble is going to resolve itself soon, and it's going to have pretty important implications.

[TheGreatYacht]

Agreed about Fathead, tbh. Absolutely useless player. Thank god for Gay....

Danny continues to age like milk in a car and I think PATFO know that. Tried to trade him in the offseason and deadline. Lost his starting spot and the defense didn't take a step back they arguably got better. Played 13min tonight. His career ended when Duncan wasn't in the paint to cover up for his revolving door defense. That was the only thing keeping him in the league and now that his only skill offensively (3pt shooting) is below league average... it's best for us if he declines that $10M player option.

[SAGirl]

I’ll say this, Kawhi’s health, rather lack thereof has been a dark cloud on the season obviously and at this point whatever happens with him will impact the rest of the roster. You just can’t repace talent like that easily and will have to build the team differently.

A legit question is what happens if he’s not traded and still not ready to go next year? I think that’s as much a probability as any talked about in other threads? If he’s injured he won’t be traded. It’s risky to supermax him when he hasn’t played basketball in a year. It’s a huge loss. Spurs decided this season to stand pat. Passed up on opportunities to improve mid season, bc “we are what we are.” They can’t take the same approach next season. The draft pick could help, White could help. Aside from that???

[MannyIsGod]

I don't understand how #1 "backfired". There was no real decision to make the guy anything he was simply the best player on the team and became top 3 in the league. What was the other option here? Even now, if the are going to trade him, there's not many trading chips that would be better. There are realistic ways to trade Kawhi and be able to rebuild on the fly because he is so damn good.

Also you're dead wrong about Anderson. Obviously the guy hates to shoot, but I think he'd a great sixth man.

[YGWHI]

it's obviously very clear that 'stable' plan didn't work out.

How it didn't work? It worked in TWO of THREE years until the player got injured.

If you don't blame the franchise for players' injuries why you say "it didnt work" when the only difference between the three seasons was a player's injury.

[MannyIsGod]

I’ll say this, Kawhi’s health, rather lack thereof has been a dark cloud on the season obviously and at this point whatever happens with him will impact the rest of the roster. You just can’t repace talent like that easily and will have to build the team differently.

A legit question is what happens if he’s not traded and still not ready to go next year? I think that’s as much a probability as any talked about in other threads? If he’s injured he won’t be traded. It’s risky to supermax him when he hasn’t played basketball in a year. It’s a huge loss. Spurs decided this season to stand pat. Passed up on opportunities to improve mid season, bc “we are what we are.” They can’t take the same approach next season. The draft pick could help, White could help. Aside from that???

What opportunity to improve would have occurred mid season?

[MannyIsGod]

Regardless of what happens with Kawhi, the Spurs need to take a chainsaw to this roster. It's going to be time to sell high on Aldridge at the draft, though going by how this season has transpired I half expect him to blow out his knee in the first round so the Spurs can't trade him for anything of value. I love Tony Parker, but lots of luck playing until he's 40. He's a pretty below average point guard now. Go play the Derrick Rose role in Cleveland. Murray is worth keeping but I don't see the talent there to be anything more than an average point guard, maybe at the level of George Hill. Keep White because who the knows what he's going to give and it's not like you're getting anything for him. Goodbye Manu, thank you for a great season at age 40, but no reason for you to kill yourself trying to win games for a team that is going to need a complete rebuild. Gasol and Fifty stay since the Spurs can't afford to give up assets to get someone to take those bums' salary. I hope Gay opts out and leaves, he's no good for a rebuild. off Anderson. Hopefully Green opts out and walks. He was a of a shooting guard to fit into the beautiful game offense but he doesn't fit a rebuild nor a team no longer filled with amazing passers. Let someone else pay for the player he used to be here.

There's zero chance Aldridge is traded. The Spurs aren't going to go into tank mode. They're either going to keep Kawhi and go with what they have or they're going to trade him and rebuild around Aldridge but there's no way they're going to trade the guy and go into tank mode even if they miss the playoffs this year. I don't even understand this line of thinking, honestly, except that Spurs fan really is ing spoiled.

[SAGirl]

Thinking about Kiwi coming back but still remain injured while Manu possibly retires and the team moves on from many of the current roster means they are headed for a rebuild/tank bottom line. You just don’t know when they will recover .. could be several years.

[MannyIsGod]

Thinking about Kiwi coming back but still remain injured while Manu possibly retires and the team moves on from many of the current roster means they are headed for a rebuild/tank bottom line. You just don’t know when they will recover .. could be several years.

This is just asinine. If this team had a year of Kawhi at 75% of what he was pre injury, they'd be easily 3rd in the West. That isn't a the recipe that screams out rebuild. Gay is coming into his own on this team and Murray is only going to get better. I can't remember the last time I saw a player improve as much over 1 season as Murray has this year. The Spurs will make some moves in the off season as they always do, but right now the one thing this team lacks more than any recent Spurs team is shooting. It definitely isn't screaming full rebuild.

[YGWHI]

I don't understand how #1 "backfired". There was no real decision to make the guy anything he was simply the best player on the team and became top 3 in the league. What was the other option here?

Exactly.

[SAGirl]

What opportunity to improve would have occurred mid season?

I am not a GM nor an insider nor claim to have “sauces” like guys here.
They had a very thin big rotation it was obvious they couldn’t rely on Joff and needed a big who could give them some rim protection for when Lamarcus was rested or injured. It was even a bigger need bc they play Rudy as a big and he missed nearly 30 games this season. Lamarcus has a balky knee so a big that can help him defensively would have been a good addition.
There was a statement or two made around the trade deadline where Spurs says that they are what they are and have to do what they can with their roster. There have been teams adding players or signing them midseason or trading or bringing guys from the gleague. Many teams sought to improve Spurs didn’t.
I think ttheir approach was that no one out there could add what they expected Kawhi if healthy to provide but is that an excuse for standing pat?

[YGWHI]

People here have to realize Pop won't waste his last one-two years as head coach in tank mode.

With-without Kawhi, with-without picks/new players/old guys/whatever, the Spurs won't rebuild next season.

[MannyIsGod]

I am not a GM nor an insider nor claim to have “sauces” like guys here.
They had a very thin big rotation it was obvious they couldn’t rely on Joff and needed a big who could give them some rim protection for when Lamarcus was rested or injured. There was a statement or two made around the trade deadline where Spurs says that they are what they are and have to do what they can with their roster. There have been teams adding players or signing them midseason or trading or bringing guys from the gleague. Many teams sought to improve Spurs didn’t.
I think ttheir approach was that no one out there could add what they expected Kawhi if healthy to provide but is that an excuse for standing pat?

You don't need an excuse for standing pat if it was the only option. Where were they going to get big man depth from in a league where good bigmen are overvalued? They probably tried to get Monroe, but how were they going to compete with the Celtics exception money? Who in this roster was tradable and worth trading? Should the Spurs have traded a first round pick for a big man in a year that they were missing their biggest star? That would have been a disaster.

If Rudy Gay had been healthy, we'd have a lot less issues with big man depth. There's a reason Joff is hardly playing now that Gay is getting minutes.

[MannyIsGod]

The idea that the Spurs didn't seek to improve is just a non starter. Of course they sought to improve, but without any real tradeable assets and with less free agent money you can't expect them to end up with a big move. That isn't nearly the same as not seeking to improve.

I don't have a million dollars in my bank account but it sure as isn't from a lack of trying.

[ElNono]

How it didn't work? It worked in TWO of THREE years until the player got injured.

If you don't blame the franchise for players' injuries why you say "it didnt work" when the only difference between the three seasons was a player's injury.

I don't understand how #1 "backfired". There was no real decision to make the guy anything he was simply the best player on the team and became top 3 in the league. What was the other option here? Even now, if the are going to trade him, there's not many trading chips that would be better. There are realistic ways to trade Kawhi and be able to rebuild on the fly because he is so damn good.

Also you're dead wrong about Anderson. Obviously the guy hates to shoot, but I think he'd a great sixth man.

These are basically the same question (except Anderson, Manny, I hope to be wrong, tbh).

I say it didn't work out/backfired because there's a giant cloud over the franchise future, and I think PATFO's plan was exactly the opposite: have an ordered transition once it became clear Kawhi was the next franchise guy.

You guys don't think the Spurs are in deep if a talent like Kawhi demands a trade/walks away this or next summer?

There's nothing clear to me about the future of not just the roster, but the franchise while this thing is hanging in the air. I think it's that serious.

If you guys don't think that's the case, then that's fair and fine. Definitely a departure from years of stability, IMO.

[SAGirl]

This is just asinine. If this team had a year of Kawhi at 75% of what he was pre injury, they'd be easily 3rd in the West. That isn't a the recipe that screams out rebuild. Gay is coming into his own on this team and Murray is only going to get better. I can't remember the last time I saw a player improve as much over 1 season as Murray has this year. The Spurs will make some moves in the off season as they always do, but right now the one thing this team lacks more than any recent Spurs team is shooting. It definitely isn't screaming full rebuild.

Keep thinking personal attacks will get you to be right.
Kawhi isn’t playing unless he’s 100%. It’s a fair point to question at this point what’s going to happen to his career where he’s missed an entire season with something that has no cure seemingly.

This isn’t directed at you but I remember someone here mentioning if you subs ute Kyle with an AllStar SF they would still be a le contender. Right! How many AS forwards can the Spurs sign this season. Paul George? LeBron? Anyone else? It’s a legit question.

Like maby I hope Kawhi is fine and all but there’s many questions about him at this point and the Spurs moving forward with him which is the point ElNono made kinda.

[Brunodf]

Agree about Anderson

Pop should start Rudy instead of Kyle tbh playing 2 bigs + 2 bad shooters isn't a winning formula in today's NBA

[SAGirl]

You don't need an excuse for standing pat if it was the only option. Where were they going to get big man depth from in a league where good bigmen are overvalued? They probably tried to get Monroe, but how were they going to compete with the Celtics exception money? Who in this roster was tradable and worth trading? Should the Spurs have traded a first round pick for a big man in a year that they were missing their biggest star? That would have been a disaster.

If Rudy Gay had been healthy, we'd have a lot less issues with big man depth. There's a reason Joff is hardly playing now that Gay is getting minutes.

I never assume standing pat is the only option. It’s never the only option.

Just as an example the Pelicans lost Boogie for the season and ended up adding Mirotic. That’s just off the top of my head. I am not even up to date on stuff around the league.

[ElNono]

The idea that the Spurs didn't seek to improve is just a non starter. Of course they sought to improve, but without any real tradeable assets and with less free agent money you can't expect them to end up with a big move. That isn't nearly the same as not seeking to improve.

I don't have a million dollars in my bank account but it sure as isn't from a lack of trying.

They definitely had a lot of interesting contracts money-wise, like Green, Pau (only one year left on their deals), Tony (expiring)... in other seasons we had the problem that we had good players, but playing for the rookie scale, and you couldn't trade for value. This season that was certainly not the case. Now, I'm not saying they didn't try to improve mid-season (not my claim), but the real question is that didn't because they didn't want to, or because there were no takers for the contracts they had? It's a question that probably we won't know the answer to, but analyzing what your money is paying for is going to have to be part of the thought process this summer, obviously, post figuring out what happens with Kawhi.

[YGWHI]

It’s a fair point to question at this point what’s going to happen to his career where he’s missed an entire season with something that has no cure seemingly.

If he can't play it's pretty obvious what's gonna happen..He'll retire.

He won't be the first player to retire too young in NBA history due to injuries.

[MannyIsGod]

These are basically the same question (except Anderson, Manny, I hope to be wrong, tbh).

I say it didn't work out/backfired because there's a giant cloud over the franchise future, and I think PATFO's plan was exactly the opposite: have an ordered transition once it became clear Kawhi was the next franchise guy.

You guys don't think the Spurs are in deep if a talent like Kawhi demands a trade/walks away this or next summer?

There's nothing clear to me about the future of not just the roster, but the franchise while this thing is hanging in the air. I think it's that serious.

If you guys don't think that's the case, then that's fair and fine. Definitely a departure from years of stability, IMO.

I mean, I was a fan before the last 20 years of success so I know what its like to root for a Spurs team who isn't a real contender and its not that bad. It doesn't have to be ring or bust. But that being said, there's really no way the Spurs are in deep . Your Aldridge thread aside, LMA has proven to be one of the top 10 players in the league this year and you can build around him. If the Spurs have to trade Kawhi, they're going to get some good pieces back. I mean look at Indiana. Everyone thought they got hosed in the trade for PG and look how well that worked out for them.

Kawhi currently is still very valuable as both a trade piece and as a possible franchise player. If I'm being honest, I have no faith in him so I'd rather see him traded, but I also have no real clue what the is going down in the organization so if they decide to keep him then OK. Worst case, we start a rebuild that we havne't seen with this team since the ing 80s so I'm OK with that but I don't think that has to happen at all.

[MannyIsGod]

Keep thinking personal attacks will get you to be right.
Kawhi isn’t playing unless he’s 100%. It’s a fair point to question at this point what’s going to happen to his career where he’s missed an entire season with something that has no cure seemingly.

This isn’t directed at you but I remember someone here mentioning if you subs ute Kyle with an AllStar SF they would still be a le contender. Right! How many AS forwards can the Spurs sign this season. Paul George? LeBron? Anyone else? It’s a legit question.

Like maby I hope Kawhi is fine and all but there’s many questions about him at this point and the Spurs moving forward with him which is the point ElNono made kinda.

Saying something you said is asinine isn't a personal attack. Its an attack on your theory as ridiculous. I didn't say you were asinine. I said what you said was asinine and I stand by it. Really on Spurstalk calling that a personal attack is hilarious.

The Spurs have an All Star caliber small foward on the roster currently and I'm not talking about Kawhi. The way Rudy is playing now that he's healthy is perfect.

[ElNono]

People here have to realize Pop won't waste his last one-two years as head coach in tank mode.

With-without Kawhi, with-without picks/new players/old guys/whatever, the Spurs won't rebuild next season.

Look, other argument aside, that's eventually might not be their choice to make. If Kawhi wants to be traded, you have to move him to at least get something for him. LMA might not want to stick around long term if we can't replace him with some decent pieces and/or another star.

Look at Miami, going from the top of the league to the bottom in a whim, same with Cleveland going up, down, up, and now again with a big cloud. This is a player's league, and the pool of actual franchise guys is limited.

[YGWHI]

You guys don't think the Spurs are in deep if a talent like Kawhi demands a trade/walks away this or next summer?

I didn't hear Kawhi demanding a trade. Did you?

So "it didn't work" for a rumor that no one has confirmed? Don't troll me.

[MannyIsGod]

Look, other argument aside, that's eventually might not be their choice to make. If Kawhi wants to be traded, you have to move him to at least get something for him. LMA might not want to stick around long term if we can't replace him with some decent pieces and/or another star.

Look at Miami, going from the top of the league to the bottom in a whim, same with Cleveland going up, down, up, and now again with a big cloud. This is a player's league, and the pool of actual franchise guys is limited.

I mean if LMA comes down with some blood clot disorder then the Spurs will suck and the tank will be on. But Miami's main issue was that Lebron was able to just walk. Kawhi can't just walk.