Lowe: Celtics starting point for Leonard likely Tatum and Kings 1st

[DPG21920]

People thinking that a potential Kawhi trade to Philly for a package including Fultz is good is confusing to me. Fultz's situation is just as mysterious as Kawhi's situation.

Fultz supposedly started working on tweaking his jumper before the season and apparently that missed up his jump shot altogether. Then the Sixers made a statement that Fultz couldn't even raise his shoulder. It's as much as a mystery as Kawhi's. No one really knows I don't think except for Fultz & the Sixers as to what really happened to Fultz's jumper. Personally I think his jumper was just fine outta college.

I mean, Fultz did come back already so that is different than Kawhi and he had a triple double, but yeah. I agree overall.

Im really hoping someone like PHX takes a wild swing for Kawhi and gives up the number one pick or something if it comes to that.

The Fultz type deal reminds me of Paul George to OKC. Looks meh on paper but there is potential like Dipo blowing up and maybe Fultz can do that.

[YGWHI]

If fans and GM’s thought the same the league would look a lot different

This is true

However, people here are expecting too much in a trade for an injured player who "won't ever play at high level again". They should lower their expectations about the pieces the Spurs could get...

[DPG21920]

Well if we are to believe Kawhi and his camp, Kawhi is close to full 100%..

[Clipper Nation]

Well if we are to believe Kawhi and his camp, Kawhi is close to full 100%..

The missed season and the word "degenerative" being applied to his injury say otherwise.

[YGWHI]

Well if we are to believe Kawhi and his camp, Kawhi is close to full 100%..

GMs would wonder if he's close to be completely healthy why the Spurs don't offer him the supermax...

[Kawhitstorm]

I would trade Kawhi for Brad Stevens straight up ..

Pop would bench him in favor of Patty

[JP le Requin]

Tatum has in my opinion a "spurs spirit" and i bet he will become a TOP 5 NBA PLAYERS !
Tatum + ROzier + DP for Kawhi i could be OK but really sad to loose KL

Murray could play SG instead PG and switch some times with Rozier.. we will get a spurs team which can switch players / positions easily, and play small ball ..

But wee need a défensive and athlétique center... maybe with the DP..or trading green, patty?

and please lets trade Pau...

[MaNu4Tres]

People thinking that a potential Kawhi trade to Philly for a package including Fultz is good is confusing to me. Fultz's situation is just as mysterious as Kawhi's situation.

Fultz supposedly started working on tweaking his jumper before the season and apparently that missed up his jump shot altogether. Then the Sixers made a statement that Fultz couldn't even raise his shoulder. It's as much as a mystery as Kawhi's. No one really knows I don't think except for Fultz & the Sixers as to what really happened to Fultz's jumper. Personally I think his jumper was just fine outta college.

Co sign. I do not want Fultz.

Tatum
Brown
Ingram
Kuzma
>>>>
Fultz


I do not know why some are so high on him.

[Ice009]

Thanks for the info on Fultz.

If you guys say he was a good shooter in college, why the heck did he change it? Was it his own idea or was in the Sixers that pushed him into changing it?

[DPG21920]

GMs would wonder if he's close to be completely healthy why the Spurs don't offer him the supermax...

Because the relationship is frayed?

[cd021]

Zero chance both Tatum and Brown are included in a potential deal with Boston imo. It’d likely be Brown + Rozier + picks as the initial offer from Ainge. Then RC would conter-offer with a demand for Tatum + Rozier OR Morris (to match salaries) + 2 Lotto picks.

Think it actually has to be Tatum, Rozier and Morris to make the math work for Kawhi but I agree that Ainge balks at Brown and Tatum but would be more willing to add the Grizzlies pick to the Kings pick.

[DPG21920]

Pop would bench him in favor of Patty

Thanks for the info on Fultz.

If you guys say he was a good shooter in college, why the heck did he change it? Was it his own idea or was in the Sixers that pushed him into changing it?

That’s the 1M dollar question. From what I’ve seen/read it appears he was working with his normal shooting coach in the off season (not a team person) and that is who was working on the change in form, but even that has been somewhat disputed.

There is a crazy good (long) article on it; I’ll try to find it.

[exstatic]

Think it actually has to be Tatum, Rozier and Morris to make the math work for Kawhi but I agree that Ainge balks at Brown and Tatum but would be more willing to add the Grizzlies pick to the Kings pick.

There will have to be a third team, then. Morris and his twin are nothing but trouble, and no one Pop would want on the roster.

[mo7888]

Think it actually has to be Tatum, Rozier and Morris to make the math work for Kawhi but I agree that Ainge balks at Brown and Tatum but would be more willing to add the Grizzlies pick to the Kings pick.

Boston ownership is not paying the max to Kawhi, Kyrie, and Hayward along with 27M for Horford. One of those guys is going out if they trade for Kawhi.

[exstatic]

Boston ownership is not paying the max to Kawhi, Kyrie, and Hayward along with 27M for Horford. One of those guys is going out if they trade for Kawhi.

Horford coming this direction, Patty and Pau that direction. The overall post-trade money remaining is close, 54 us/62 them and it allows Boston to smooth their cap by stretching Pau's remaining $6M after this coming season. Instead of 2 years/$54M with Horford, they get 26M/12M/12M/12m. If they don't stretch him, the could just outright cut him, and it would be 26M/16M/10M/10M.

[cd021]

Boston ownership is not paying the max to Kawhi, Kyrie, and Hayward along with 27M for Horford. One of those guys is going out if they trade for Kawhi.

Horford coming this direction, Patty and Pau that direction. The overall post-trade money remaining is close, 54 us/62 them and it allows Boston to smooth their cap by stretching Pau's remaining $6M after this coming season. Instead of 2 years/$54M with Horford, they get 26M/12M/12M/12m. If they don't stretch him, the could just outright cut him, and it would be 26M/16M/10M/10M.

I'm not sure that works out for the Spurs at all. Hordford and Aldridge would combine to make $56 million 19-20.

Pau+Mills+ Kawhi along with Brown, Morris, Hayward, and Kyrie would cost the Celtics at least $122 million, probably closer to $130 million and even if they stretch Pau and let Morris walk that's still a pretty big payroll.

If Boston has too, I'm sure that they'd be fine ponying up for a team that has Kawhi, Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford + Brown - with Lebron probably walk, they could dominate the east for six or seven years at least, easy.


A three team deal is probably the best bet;

Boston Get

Kawhi

Spurs Get

Rozier
Tatum
2019 Kings Pick (probably ends up being in the 6-9 range)
2019 Grizzlies Pick (probably ends up being in the 9-14 range)

Third Team Gets
Marcus Morris

[Hoops Czar]

I'm not sure that works out for the Spurs at all. Hordford and Aldridge would combine to make $56 million 19-20.

Pau+Mills+ Kawhi along with Brown, Morris, Hayward, and Kyrie would cost the Celtics at least $122 million, probably closer to $130 million and even if they stretch Pau and let Morris walk that's still a pretty big payroll.

A three team deal is probably the best bet;

Boston Get

Kawhi

Spurs Get

Rozier
Tatum
2019 Kings Pick (probably ends up being in the 6-9 range)
2019 Grizzlies Pick (probably ends up being in the 9-14 range)

Third Team Gets
Marcus Morris

Boston would need to have their heads examined to make that trade for a player with a chronic degenerative condition. This is the same team that traded IT because they were worried about the long term implications of his hip injury.

[TD 21]

Tatum is the best combination of high ceiling/floor of the bunch, but if Fultz can overcome the mental block (and/or mysterious structural shoulder issue) he appears to have developed, which led to his jumper becoming broken, he has the highest ceiling.

Tatum appears to be a virtual lock to be, if not an elite scorer, in the next tier. Fultz could conceivably become that, with elite breakdown ability. Those two things in tandem, along with elite physical tools, are the stuff of superstars.

Not saying he becomes that, but it's within' the realm of possibilities. Clearly, he'd be an immense risk though and if he went bust, more than likely so too would the trade.

Under no realistic cir stances could I see Murray being a fit next to him. Even if he becomes at least a competent shooter, his best skill will likely always be his breakdown ability, which means being ball dominant and paired in the back court with a plus shooter.

[MoSpur02]

Tatum is the best combination of high ceiling/floor of the bunch, but if Fultz can overcome the mental block (and/or mysterious structural shoulder issue) he appears to have developed, which led to his jumper becoming broken, he has the highest ceiling.

Tatum appears to be a virtual lock to be, if not an elite scorer, in the next tier. Fultz could conceivably become that, with elite breakdown ability. Those two things in tandem, along with elite physical tools, are the stuff of superstars.

Not saying he becomes that, but it's within' the realm of possibilities. Clearly, he'd be an immense risk though and if he went bust, more than likely so too would the trade.

Under no realistic cir stances could I see Murray being a fit next to him. Even if he becomes at least a competent shooter, his best skill will likely always be his breakdown ability, which means being ball dominant and paired in the back court with a plus shooter.

I would not trade for Fultz. Not saying he doesn't have the potential to be great, but you are taking a huge risk if you trade for him. You take the sure thing in Tatum or Brown.

[MoSpur02]

Tatum is the best combination of high ceiling/floor of the bunch, but if Fultz can overcome the mental block (and/or mysterious structural shoulder issue) he appears to have developed, which led to his jumper becoming broken, he has the highest ceiling.

Tatum appears to be a virtual lock to be, if not an elite scorer, in the next tier. Fultz could conceivably become that, with elite breakdown ability. Those two things in tandem, along with elite physical tools, are the stuff of superstars.

Not saying he becomes that, but it's within' the realm of possibilities. Clearly, he'd be an immense risk though and if he went bust, more than likely so too would the trade.

Under no realistic cir stances could I see Murray being a fit next to him. Even if he becomes at least a competent shooter, his best skill will likely always be his breakdown ability, which means being ball dominant and paired in the back court with a plus shooter.

Now if they want Mills and are willing to give us Fultz then yeah you do it. Mills' shot is just as broken as Fultz.

[cd021]

Boston would need to have their heads examined to make that trade for a player with a chronic degenerative condition. This is the same team that traded IT because they were worried about the long term implications of his hip injury.

Yeah but they traded for Kyrie, who's injury history is worse than both Kawhi and IT. They value talent and are willing to take risks.

Trading Tatum and two of their five 1st rounders (between this draft and next draft) is a medium risk, high reward for the Celtics.

[cool cat]

Boston would need to have their heads examined to make that trade for a player with a chronic degenerative condition. This is the same team that traded IT because they were worried about the long term implications of his hip injury.

They traded IT because they got a major upgrade with Kyrie.

[cd021]

I would not trade for Fultz. Not saying he doesn't have the potential to be great, but you are taking a huge risk if you trade for him. You take the sure thing in Tatum or Brown.

Now if they want Mills and are willing to give us Fultz then yeah you do it. Mills' shot is just as broken as Fultz.

I don't think Fultz shot is broken tbh and if Phily were offering Fultz, Covington, Saric, 10th pick and maybe Parseniks then that is a pretty strong offer.

Fultz has high upside but does come with risk, though he could fit nicely with Murray, add that to Saric and the 10th pick plus Covington would be a good return but the safer return would probably be Tatum, the Kings and Grizzlies pick.

[TD 21]

I would not trade for Fultz. Not saying he doesn't have the potential to be great, but you are taking a huge risk if you trade for him. You take the sure thing in Tatum or Brown.

I'd probably do the same (pending the remainder of each package), but then we don't have access to what they could glean, in terms of what really happened with Fultz and the likelihood of it being a blip in his career.

Now if they want Mills and are willing to give us Fultz then yeah you do it. Mills' shot is just as broken as Fultz.

Considering the magnitude of this, Mills' contract wouldn't influence them into taking what they deem an inferior package. Besides, with the team more than likely skewing younger, they'd probably feel his intangibles would be even more important than they already believe.

[mo7888]

I'm not sure that works out for the Spurs at all. Hordford and Aldridge would combine to make $56 million 19-20.

Pau+Mills+ Kawhi along with Brown, Morris, Hayward, and Kyrie would cost the Celtics at least $122 million, probably closer to $130 million and even if they stretch Pau and let Morris walk that's still a pretty big payroll.

If Boston has too, I'm sure that they'd be fine ponying up for a team that has Kawhi, Kyrie, Hayward, and Horford + Brown - with Lebron probably walk, they could dominate the east for six or seven years at least, easy.


A three team deal is probably the best bet;

Boston Get

Kawhi

Spurs Get

Rozier
Tatum
2019 Kings Pick (probably ends up being in the 6-9 range)
2019 Grizzlies Pick (probably ends up being in the 9-14 range)

Third Team Gets
Marcus Morris

It's a solid offer but, if Boston did that they'd be paying over 120M for 4 players with kawhi and kyrie's extensions. 1 year later brown goes on for a new contract. You're talking 140M for 5 players if they let everybody else walk and fill it out with all minimum contracts. I don't see them doing that. I don't think we would take horford either. I think Hayward + Tatum or Brown would be the centerpiece of their offer.

I do like the Philly scenario you mentioned as well. I probably like it better actually. Fultz is a risk but having saric and the 10th pick mitigates it.